The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim was on the idea that Johnson is far from a given well before Adam piped in about it, I referenced that in real time back then 

Keim knows things.  

 

Btw, I had to turn off Bram today.  He was going on and on and on and on and on about Adam saying Washington might jump in for Cousins.  He kept saying it wasn't going to happen.  Then kept going and going and going.

And his doofus of a producer (Bram I like, Callow is very meh) brought up a scenario by which we signed Kirk, then the Vikings traded us Justin Jefferson + 2 firsts for #2. 

 

And then they talked about that.  

 

I mean, what in the name are we doing here?  Everybody has lost their damn mind.

 

We're going to sit at 2 and pick Maye and 80% of the fanbase is going to be disappointed we didn't do something revolutionary and insanely stupid.  

[DogofWar1]

The Rube Goldbergification of the offseason is in full swing.

[illone]

56 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

  I have no idea who QB school is or what their credentials are.  My breakdown on him is earlier in this thread.  

  
 

JT O’Sullivan. I think he played for more teams than anyone in NFL history. He has a successful youtube channel breaking down tape of pro and college players. 
 

ill send you some of his stuff. Its pretty damn good. 

[Ghost of]

12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

When I watched McCarthy, it was so clear that he knows absolutely nothing.  He can throw to wide open receivers.  But that's about it.  Can he learn?  Maybe.  My concern is even on throws where he was told where to throw it, he was late and inaccurate.  THAT'S BAD. 

 

The play that stands out, there was a 3rd and 9, and even dumbass me could tell he had single coverage to his right.  The play was designed to go inside to the TE on a quick slant.  HIs head NEVER TURNED to even glace at the outside.  The WR dumped the CB on his ass with the chuck. He was standing there by himself.  If McCarthy looks that way to at least glance if there is a chance on the 1:1, it's almost certainly a TD.  But he doesn't.  He is told exactly where he's going to throw the ball.  And he does.  And it's complete.  And they punt.  

 

 

Odd that he knows nothing but knew on a specific route that the Ohio State defender wouldn't turn his head around and threw a touchdown to Roman Wilson (in what was ultimately a tight game). I mean he talked about that immediately after the game and the video proves the defender didn't turn his head. How is he picking up on that but not knowing where to go?

 

I don't have them handy but on advanced metrics, McCarthy seems most apt (at least in terms of percentage) to throw on third downs past the sticks. Does that mean you aren't right on the play you describe, of course not, I'm sure you are.  But I know I've done the same breakdown on pro QBs and been bewildered. Every QB, no matter how great, misses a guy here and there. I'd want to know if it represents a failure to pass to the left (again, the metrics have been posted so we need to use those solely rely on your tape watching) overall.

 

However, the notion that he's just told where to throw in a pro type offense and that's it doesn't make sense to me.  I do think consistency is in his decision-making is something to work on as I've seen it. He needs more reps overall, he's younger than any other prospect, and he does seem to need to "loosen up" by getting a run or scramble in when the offense went cold.

[Rolo Tomasie]

Here's my take on which games to watch for Maye. 

In 2022 watch the crazy 63-61 Appalachian State game. Its a god damn clinic. One of the best performances by a freshman QB in I think his second or third game I've ever seen. You just drool over what he shows he's capable of in that game.

In 2023 his best play was against Syracuse, Pitt, South Carolina. And I actually think the NC State game was a gutsy performance by him. I mentioned on the draft thread that people incorrectly point to it as a bad Maye performance. It's not, they're just going by stats. In truth, UNC got dominated by Payton Wilson in his last home game and all the Tar Heels completely folded except Maye. Both his interceptions clanked off his receiver's hands. He lead his team by far in rushing yards. He had a beautiful long pass to Tes Walker that Tez caught, then fumbled at the one yard line before recovering in the end zone, denying Maye the TD pass credit. His center's shotgun snaps were all over the place. The whole Carolina team was slipping and falling down all over the field. And the defense couldn't stop State at all. I'd encourage people to watch that game carefully. 

Virginia to me was his worst game. It's like something physically was not right with him. The difference between his App State performance in 2022 and his VA performance in 2023 is what scares you a bit with Maye.

Edited March 5 by Rolo Tomasie

[Rolo Tomasie]

Jayden Daniels and LSU had such an amazing year almost any game you watch has a stellar performance by him in it.

 

Both these guys are such excellent prospects. I roll my eyes at the negative hyperbolic reviews of either of them. Most anyone going out on a limb to criticize either one, saying one of these guys is seriously flawed, is just emotionally attached to the other one, or trying to get attention. And these largely manufactured and overstated criticisms are what are leading other people to suggest silly ideas like trading out of 2 or picking JJ McCarthy or signing Russel Wilson or such lunacy.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Keim, sure but Ian and Adam still get more info than Keim too. 

 

I want everyone to think of all the news about Washington to come out - who spilled Myers first? Who was the first to say Johnson likely wasn't happening? Who was the first to announce Harris?

 

The local guys are never first, its always the national guys. 

 

Schefter via his relationships with agents especially knows when things happen before Keim does.  Keim tends to know more about their overall thinking than Schefter does from all of my years paying attention to it.  Could Schefter match Keim if he wanted to on that front?  I am sure he could.  But he doesn't care enough to want to know generally thinking of a team until its relevant to a story whereas its always relevant for Keim to know.

 

 

As fo Ian he had a long spell when he was royally wrong about this team.  In recent years he's gotten a lot better.

27 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

 

Virginia to me was his worst game. It's like something physically was not right with him. The difference between his App State performance in 2022 and his VA performance in 2023 is what scares you a bit with Maye.

 

I've watched every available game for Drake from 2023 multiple times.  In that Virgina game his receivers were horrible.  

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Keim knows things.  

 

Btw, I had to turn off Bram today.  He was going on and on and on and on and on about Adam saying Washington might jump in for Cousins.  He kept saying it wasn't going to happen.  Then kept going and going and going.

And his doofus of a producer (Bram I like, Callow is very meh) brought up a scenario by which we signed Kirk, then the Vikings traded us Justin Jefferson + 2 firsts for #2. 

 

And then they talked about that.  

 

I mean, what in the name are we doing here?  Everybody has lost their damn mind.

 

We're going to sit at 2 and pick Maye and 80% of the fanbase is going to be disappointed we didn't do something revolutionary and insanely stupid.  

 

It's silly season.  Where any rumor is jumped on.  And Bram gets wrapped up in that easily I noticed.   Bram I noticed has some Sheehan in him where his predispostions influence his objectivity and he comes off a bit obnoxious when doing so.

 

I'll give Sheehan this.  He's big on Daniels and yes he skews info heavily in his favor, the only concern he has about him is his size.  But he doesn't think he's prone to sacks in spite of the stats.  He thinks he protects himself well as a runner.  He thinks he doesn't throw over the middle only because of context.   But yeah he's way over the top about him.  But I'll give him he's not one of these love Daniels and finds any excuse to crap on Maye types.

 

Also Sheehan had a rare Mae Culpa on his podcast where he went over all his many QB misses including Darnold and hit his RBs, too.   I thought he looked good owning up to it.  I like Sheehan but find it when he plays amatuer scout and touts his accomplishments on that front a bit much.  But on that segment he was plenty humble.  He even played down him trashing the Wentz trade as it was an obvious call.

Edited March 5 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Keim saying its not a done deal is something but Schefter saying he bet its not happening was a lot more significant.

 

Also every single coaching hire came from the national guys - from Kingsbury to Whitt to Johnson. 

 

Keim was very early on this before Schefter that Quinn is hot on the table with this crew.   When many national types were saying Johnson was a given.  Keim was the one saying not so.  To me that was more in advance than Schefter saying 2 days or so before it didn't happen, during a period with leaks that Johnson didn't interview well.

 

If its breaking a story my money is on Schefter.  Ian maybe #2, he's gotten better over the years.  Then Garafolo or Breer.

 

But as for knowing what this team is thinking all the time, no one beats Keim.

 

Heck Keim seems to even know much about their draft designs, year after year.  I was putting on the thread their goals per round in the last draft each day called by Keim, and they ran through that script to a tee.  Unbelievable.

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

Jayden Daniels and LSU had such an amazing year almost any game you watch has a stellar performance by him in it.

 

Both these guys are such excellent prospects. I roll my eyes at the negative hyperbolic reviews of either of them. Most anyone going out on a limb to criticize either one, saying one of these guys is seriously flawed, is just emotionally attached to the other one, or trying to get attention. And these largely manufactured and overstated criticisms are what are leading other people to suggest silly ideas like trading out of 2 or picking JJ McCarthy or signing Russel Wilson or such lunacy.

 

They both IMO would be #1 in most drafts.  We are lucky to pick 2.    Maye is the more polarizing with the public of the two.   But on that front it is what it is.  I think if Sam Howell had a better season we'd see less of the Howell punchline hits .  When Howell was hot plenty thought he was the dude.  Now, Howell seems to be the ultimate punchline with some of a Qb who sucks.

 

Maye is the guy for me.  IMO he's more pro ready than Daniels.  He's facing more adversity. Comes off more of a leader personality wise.  Knows how to make lemonade out of lemons and work out of a muddy pucket.  He's made more pro-type throws.  The bigger traits.  But Daniels is easily the most fun of the two QBs and is more exciting.  A QB who can run like him challenges defenses.  He's accurate enough.  

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They both IMO would be #1 in most drafts.  We are lucky to pick 2.    Maye is the more polarizing with the public of the two.   But on that front it is what it is.  I think if Sam Howell had a better season we'd see less of the Howell punchline hits .  When Howell was hot plenty thought he was the dude.  Now, Howell seems to be the ultimate punchline with some of a Qb who sucks.

 

Maye is the guy for me.  IMO he's more pro ready than Daniels.  He's facing more adversity. Comes off more of a leader personality wise.  Knows how to make lemonade out of lemons and work out of a muddy pucket.  He's made more pro-type throws.  The bigger traits.  But Daniels is easily the most fun of the two QBs and is more exciting.  A QB who can run like him challenges defenses.  He's accurate enough.  

 

 

 

 

If comparing Howell to Maye, as simple as it sounds, the biggest difference is height. Howell will never be great due to his height. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll say this, the last time I can recall QB #2 this divided as for media sentiment was 2018.  Who should go #2 or what they are heaing about #2 or what they think of #2 -- its wild how divergent the opinions are on it.

 

I am focused on Maye because Daniels gets plenty enough attention from any twitter posting organically here.  But both get plenty of love depending on the source.

 

This from one of the draft guys on the Athletic

[Est.1974]

Sign Wilson, draft a QB, trade Howell.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

Sign Wilson, draft a QB, trade Howell.

 

I am not in the sign Wilson camp.  Not even a little.  but for those here interested, article on it today.

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/39654343/russell-wilson-best-nfl-fits-atlanta-falcons-las-vegas-raiders-pittsburgh-steelers

What are league sentiments around Wilson?

As we wrote back in January, many around the league view Wilson as a midtier starter, believing he rehabilitated his career under Broncos coach Sean Payton, though a few see him as slightly below midtier.

"He actually played well during their midseason winning streak," an AFC personnel man told us during the season. "He's still a good quality starter. He can still make all of the throws, still mobile. Honestly, his skills haven't declined that much. It's more about the fit as a person. His teammates seemed to like him there."

• 17dJeremy Fowler

Others saw a functional but declining skill set, good enough for Wilson to earn one of 32 starting jobs but not enough to rediscover his Seattle self.

"Physically Russ is declining as his deep ball, mobility and overall accuracy are fading," an AFC personnel director said. "I think his career arc is unique because he's basically an older version of his younger self in Seattle. He needs a strong running game and defense once again to be a serviceable starter."

With that in mind, and with Wilson officially headed for free agency, where could he end up?

Atlanta Falcons

An established veteran is attractive to Atlanta, but the sense is that the Falcons will target other quarterbacks. Execs I've spoken to largely expect Atlanta to walk away with one of these three quarterbacks: Kirk Cousins, Justin Fields or Baker Mayfield. This is a ready-made team that's a quarterback away. Wilson would fit the profile, but other quarterbacks will likely get a crack at this one.

---

Las Vegas Raiders

This is honestly a pretty good fit. The Raiders will explore ways to trade up for a quarterback in the draft -- coach Antonio Pierce has an affinity for Jayden Daniels from their Arizona State days -- but moving from No. 13 to the top three is an arduous task. The Raiders have not been linked to the Cousins and Mayfield free agencies. It is perhaps notable that Wilson listed Las Vegas as one of his four preferred destinations amid talk of a trade from Seattle in 2021. He would relish the chance to play with Davante Adams, too.

---

Pittsburgh Steelers

On paper, this makes sense. Pittsburgh is the proverbial quarterback away. Incumbent Kenny Pickett threw for a paltry six touchdown passes in 12 starts a year ago. And acquiring Wilson will be cost-effective, which the Steelers love. But the sense out of the combine last week is that the Steelers are prepared to give Pickett another chance and are open to a competition, perhaps including holdover Mason Rudolph. Offensive coordinator Arthur Smith recently traveled to South Florida to meet with Pickett. It's doubtful Wilson would embrace a 1A or No. 2 role at this stage.

---

Minnesota Vikings

The Vikings are attractive for any prospective quarterback -- they have all-world receiver Justin Jefferson and a quarterback-friendly coach in Kevin O'Connell. There's also a belief in some league circles that Minnesota, should it lose Cousins, is eager to reset its books and possibly take a swing on a quarterback in the draft. If that's the case, Wilson could be a good option for a year. But Minnesota is in a similar boat to Atlanta in that it could have several options to evaluate, including Mayfield and Fields.

---

New England Patriots

 

Possible, but much will depend on where New England is in its rebuild. Wilson will prioritize winning, and the Patriots aren't ready to win big. They need at least a year to replenish the roster. Plus, they have the No. 3 pick, which they could use on Daniels or UNC's Drake Maye. So, not impossible, but not sure the fit is good for either side.

---

Could Wilson end up as a No. 2 QB somewhere?

I have a hard time believing that. Most scouts I've spoken to consider him a quality starter, and there are enough quarterback-needy teams that at least one door should be open for him. Wilson is committed to not only remaining an NFL starter, but winning big. Plus, he has made $266 million in his career. Why would he be a backup?

The most realistic outcome is Wilson is willing to accept the league minimum, knowing Denver is on the hook for the full $39 million in guarantees, a move he leverages into a starting job somewhere with no promises beyond 2024.

[DiscoBob]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Sign Wilson, draft a QB, trade Howell.

 

If he's willing to get paid like a #2 and comes here as the backup.... sure.... but that aint' happening, so no....

[Command The 414]

27 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Sign Wilson, draft a QB, trade Howell.

I heard last night that Wilson could probably be had for league minimum cause the Broncos are on the hook for a lot of $… in all seriousness and many on this board would flip the freak out but let’s say we draft Maye at 2… sign Wilson cheap and let Maye sit (ala Jordan Love, Mahomes, Rodgers) and get something for Sam Howell… you might actually be on too something here… and I could think of many worse things then this…

Edited March 5 by Command The 414

[ThatNFLChick]

This is why you can't pay attention to this stuff. They JUST TOLD Craig Hoffman two days ago that Maye was the consensus #2 and they only heard from 2 people that had Daniels over Maye. Now this. 

 

 

Edited March 5 by ThatNFLChick

[DogofWar1]

I'd rather shell out a little extra for Brissett than pay Wilson, just because Wilson is such a different build from either of the two frontrunners we might draft that you can't run the same offense.

 

If you're trying to give the new guy a few weeks to see what this NFL thing is all about, then you'd ideally want them to watch someone running the system they're expected to play in.  Wilson at 5'11" is just a whole different build than 6'4" Brissett, who is the same height as both Daniels and Maye.

[woodpecker]

3 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

I heard last night that Wilson could probably be had for league minimum cause the Broncos are on the hook for a lot of $… in all seriousness and many on this board would flip the freak out but let’s say we draft Maye at 2… sign Wilson cheap and let Maye sit (ala Jordan Love, Mahomes, Rodgers) and get something for Sam Howell… you might actually be on too something here… and I could think of many worse things then this…

I honestly don’t think sitting a year is what made Mahomes and Rogers great. They would have been Hall of Famers either way, and both of those teams may have cost themselves a title by keeping them on the bench behind lesser players. Mahomes has become the new Brady, where using him as a comparison for anything is a waste of time. He’s just a unicorn that is not constrained by conventional thinking. Love maybe we can talk once he puts up more than half a good season. But he is an outlier example, as teams generally do not spend high picks like that on a QB when they already have a stud at the position. Looks good now, but remember at the time they could’ve used those picks to give a still great Rogers a couple more weapons which may have put them over the top in those years. 

[mac8887]

I like Micheal Penix, I wish he didn’t have that extensive injury riddled history.

 

He really excels at staying in the pocket, and making throws without taking sacks.

 

Ive noticed the other QBs drift in the pocket at the top of their drops for no reason quite often, and it leads to pressure that wouldn’t be there.

 

His sack to pressure rate is truly amazing, and I imagine him not drifting really helps with that.

 

I really think he has a legit shot to succeed as long as his knees hold up.

 

Is this pocket drifting something that coaches are becoming more ok with? Seems like it makes it harder on the o line.

[RandyHolt]

Looking at how many teams need QBs and guys like Russell "Write Off" Wilson and others like Cousins (and Rodgers) coming off major injuries yet still will command TOP dollar.... it does not bode well for thinking any QB we draft will be a difference maker. Sure you gotta try but fans really need to check their expectations at the door more than we do. 4 bad games from our rookie QB and this place will be on the ledge.

 

NFL GMs need to collude and stop grossly overpaying for QBs.

 

 

Edited March 5 by RandyHolt

[Rolo Tomasie]

I think we're going to have a lot of bad games from our rookie quarterback no matter who it is. I think the team is going to be legitimately awful. Get ready for a rough year. This year will be all about watching for signs of individual progress from the quarterback and other young players. We're starting fresh with everything from the owner on down to the offensive line. This is the very definition of a rebuild.

[NOLA2DC]

Someone said look at Maye's Appachan State game as a standout game, while people say look at he Florida game as a standout game for Daniels. You can't make this stuff up😁  

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

Someone said look at Maye's Appachan State game as a standout game, while people say look at he Florida game as a standout game for Daniels. You can't make this stuff up😁  

 

Purely out of curiosity, are you planning on sticking around when we likely draft Maye or will you disappear?

[Koolblue13]