The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Until we can beat them consistently it doesn’t matter.

 

I think the point is, if the Giants spend their money foolishly it will play a role in the Commanders being able to beat them going forward. Anything our division rivals do that can hinder their improvement is always a good thing.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

I think the point is, if the Giants spend their money foolishly it will play a role in the Commanders being able to beat them going forward. Anything our division rivals do that can hinder their improvement is always a good thing.

 

How about I word this differently: I don't believe it's a hindrance to their performance in the least to pay their QB with a rising salary cap. We are celebrating things that don't make sense to celebrate, in my opinion. 

[Warhead36]

How we gonna celebrate the Giants keeping a guy that regularly whoops our ass? Makes no sense. And the dude is actually playing well now against everybody.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

How about I word this differently: I don't believe it's a hindrance to their performance in the least to pay their QB with a rising salary cap. We are celebrating things that don't make sense to celebrate, in my opinion. 

 

And I'll word it differently lol...none of us know what it will take t keep Jones, and his salary won't be the only one affected by a rising salary cap. So taking that into consideration, along with all the other insane QB salaries as of late, it's not unreasonable to think paying out the nose for a QB of Jones' talent level could not only happen, but could have a ripple effect in other areas of the team and the division.

[Warhead36]

I just think its dumb for US of all people to mock the Giants locking down another potential franchise QB who has beaten our behinds every time he plays us. We're not exactly a bastion of QB success.

[Jumbo]

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

How we gonna celebrate the Giants keeping a guy that regularly whoops our ass? Makes no sense. And the dude is actually playing well now against everybody.

 

If the goal is to improve, who gives a flying **** that he "whooped" our ass when we were 3-13, 7-9 or 8-8? And "actually playing well now"? if you mean the last 2 or 3 games, then sure, ok...

 

 

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I just think its dumb for US of all people to mock the Giants locking down another potential franchise QB who has beaten our behinds every time he plays us. We're not exactly a bastion of QB success.

 

His last game against us he was downright mediocre...and that was the first time he had beaten a Heinicke-led Washington team lol...I mean, he threw for a whopping 160 yards and averaged 5 yards per attempt. That was 4 weeks ago.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

If the goal is to improve, who gives a flying **** that he "whooped" our ass when we were 3-13, 7-9 or 8-8? And "actually playing well now"? if you mean the last 2 or 3 games, then sure, ok...

 

 

Okay. Let’s continue to downplay the team who routinely clowns this organization and, over the last few years they were clowning us, weren’t very good either up until this year.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Okay. Let’s continue to downplay the team who routinely clowns this organization and, over the last few years they were clowning us, weren’t very good either up until this year.

 

They haven't "clowned" this organization since 2019 when Jay Gruden was fired mid-stream...and we're downplaying how good Jones is being portrayed as, not the Giants organization overall. Although if I'm gonna assess how the organization is being run, it's gonna be based on one helluva lot more than whether or not they beat us in any give year, and most definitely not during seasons when we were losing to everyone anyway lol...

[KDawg]

Just now, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

They haven't "clowned" this organization since 2019 when Jay Gruden was fired mid-stream...and we're downplaying how good Jones is being portrayed as, not the Giants organization overall. Although if I'm gonna assess how the organization is being run, it's gonna be based on one helluva lot more than whether or not they beat us in any give year, and most definitely not during seasons when we were losing to everyone anyway lol...

How about being in the second round of the playoffs their first year with a new regime?

 

This is a really strange conversation that I’m going to bow out of. 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I just think its dumb for US of all people to mock the Giants locking down another potential franchise QB who has beaten our behinds every time he plays us. We're not exactly a bastion of QB success.

 

Again, I'm not saying it from the perspective of us being better or smarter or anything along those lines. We're not. Just from the perspective of a rival team having to pay out a huge long term contract for a 15-20 level QB.

 

Yes, they've consistently beaten us with Daniel Jones. But that doesn't have to do with him being a great QB. It has to do with us sucking. 

 

But I guess it all depends on how big the contract is. If they can get him for good but not elite money, then it could work out for them since they'd then be able to spend money to surround him with talent. If they have to pay him elite top 3 type money, then IMO there's no way it's worth it because he's not anywhere close to that level.

[fearlessNelms]

Jones can play! If you ask any QB, coach, analyst- whoever, they'll tell you that a QB's second year in an offensive system is when they take a huge leap in production. Jones is only going to get better and when Daboll gets "his" players, look out. Isaiah Hodgins is an example of one of Daboll's players. A guy nobody hardly heard of, but was brought in by Daboll because he's knows the system and is one of his guys. Look what he's doing, he looks like a Pro Bowler.

 

I see what Daboll did with Josh Allen and I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that under Daboll that Jones is on his way to being that type of QB. Like Allen, Jones is big, has a strong arm and is athletic as hell. 

 

The Giants have themselves a QB and what they pay him and what it does to their cap is a problem I'm sure they don't mind having. Their FO is sharp and I don't think having to pay a few guys in Jones and Barkley- who are studs- is going to destroy their cap and their future plans. The Giants are way ahead of schedule and they are going to be the biggest problem in the NFC East for the foreseeable future. 

 

Obviously, as a Commander fan, I hope that every opinion I just wrote is wrong and that Daboll, their FO and Daniel Jones all prove to stink over the next few years. But I don't think so and in my opinion, the Giants are the team to beat in our division for the next who knows how many years. 

   

Edited January 16, 2023 by fearlessNelms

[Califan007 The Constipated]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

How about being in the second round of the playoffs their first year with a new regime?

 

This is a really strange conversation that I’m going to bow out of. 

 

Absolutely will be based on a helluva lot more than that as well. Consistency matters more than pretty much anything else mentioned on this page of the thread. (assuming my post is not relegated to a new page lol)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Again, I'm not saying it from the perspective of us being better or smarter or anything along those lines. We're not. Just from the perspective of a rival team having to pay out a huge long term contract for a 15-20 level QB.

 

Yes, they've consistently beaten us with Daniel Jones. But that doesn't have to do with him being a great QB. It has to do with us sucking. 

 

 

Amen to that part in bold.

[Koolblue13]

Haha the Giants have a legit franchise QB and will pay him like it. What a bunch of assholes.

 

Glad we aren't them, right everyone?  

 

****ing people 

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

Jones can play! If you ask any QB, coach, analyst- whoever, they'll tell you that a QB's second year in an offensive system is when they take a huge leap in production. Jones is only going to get better and when Daboll gets "his" players, look out. Isaiah Hodgins is an example of one of Daboll's players. A guy nobody hardly heard of, but was brought in by Daboll because he's knows the system and is one of his guys. Look what he's doing, he looks like a Pro Bowler.

 

I see what Daboll did with Josh Allen and I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that under Daboll that Jones is on his way to being that type of QB. Like Allen, Jones is big, has a strong arm and is athletic as hell. 

 

The Giants have themselves a QB and what they pay him and what it does to their cap is a problem I'm sure they don't mind having. Their FO is sharp and I don't think having to pay a few guys in Jones and Barkley- who are studs- is going to destroy their cap and their future plans. The Giants are way ahead of schedule and they are going to be the biggest problem in the NFC East for the foreseeable future. 

 

Obviously, as a Commander fan, I hope that every opinion I just wrote is wrong and that Daboll, their FO and Daniel Jones all prove to stink over the next few years. But I don't think so and in my opinion, the Giants are the team to beat in our division for the next who knows how many years. 

   

 

Yes, it's absolutely positively 100% a stretch to say that Jones is on his way to being like Josh Allen. They aren't in the same universe as passers.

 

I still think Jones is a mediocre overall QB who has benefitted from a OC who has limited his passing and decided to use his legs more instead. Is it possible that he'll magically change now and turn into an elite passer? I suppose anything is possible, but I certainly wouldn't bank on it.

 

I also doubt that the Giants are under any illusion that he's an elite QB. So they'll have to see what sort of contract he asks for and then make a decision. If he wants elite top 3 money, it won't be an easy one to make.

[fearlessNelms]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Yes, it's absolutely positively 100% a stretch to say that Jones is on his way to being like Josh Allen. They aren't in the same universe as passers.

 

I still think Jones is a mediocre overall QB who has benefitted from a OC who has limited his passing and decided to use his legs more instead. Is it possible that he'll magically change now and turn into an elite passer? I suppose anything is possible, but I certainly wouldn't bank on it.

 

I also doubt that the Giants are under any illusion that he's an elite QB. So they'll have to see what sort of contract he asks for and then make a decision. If he wants elite top 3 money, it won't be an easy one to make.

Believe me brother, I hope you're right. But I don't think so. Jones is a baller and his ceiling is very high under Daboll. We can debate it till the cows come home, we'll see. Like everything in life- time will tell.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, fearlessNelms said:

Believe me brother, I hope you're right. But I don't think so. Jones is a baller and his ceiling is very high under Daboll. We can debate it till the cows come home, we'll see. Like everything in life- time will tell.

 

Can you tell me what indicators you see that tell you Daniel Jones is going to suddenly go from a 15 TD passer to a ~40 TD passing machine like Josh Allen?

[redskinss]

Just watched a quick post draft interview with Mike Renner from pff.

He said that the reasons he heard for Howells slide in the draft was because of his interviews and that he was not good on the whiteboard, not good with protections, and not good with blitz recognition. 

This is the first I've heard of that, I thought the general consensus was that he was really good at those things and his slide was due to his statistical drop his junior year and sketchy footwork. 

 

 

 

[Jumbo]

"Nature abhors a vacuum" 

 

There will be a gravitational pull towards posting stupidly on various stupid premises to replace all the bandwidth formerly allotted to posting stupidly on Taylor Heinieke, which except for a few terminally infected, is finally, mercifully, dissipating. 

 

 

[shemp nixon]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

Just watched a quick post draft interview with Mike Renner from pff.

He said that the reasons he heard for Howells slide in the draft was because of his interviews and that he was not good on the whiteboard, not good with protections, and not good with blitz recognition. 

This is the first I've heard of that, I thought the general consensus was that he was really good at those things and his slide was due to his statistical drop his junior year and sketchy footwork. 

 

 

 

I think the slide had a lot to do with the overall consensus of the QB class, coupled with Howell being under 6 foot.

[fearlessNelms]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Can you tell me what indicators you see that tell you Daniel Jones is going to suddenly go from a 15 TD passer to a ~40 TD passing machine like Josh Allen?

He's big, has a strong arm and has very good pocket presence. And if he has to take off and run, he's very dangerous. He might not have an arm as strong as Allen's and he might not hurdle guys like Allen often does, but there are similarities. Add to that that he is being coached by Daboll and I can see him developing into a similar type of QB as Allen. 

 

I think people are making the mistake of seeing the Daniel Jones who was coached by Joe Judge and his staff and saying that's who he is. I'm seeing a guy with all the physical and mental attributes that you look for in a QB who is now being coached by a top notch QB staff. That's the guy I see now and moving forward.    

[redskinss]

Just now, shemp nixon said:

I think the slide had a lot to do with the overall consensus of the QB class, coupled with Howell being under 6 foot.

He's not under 6 ft, he's just under 6'1 which is still on the shorter side for the position but not quite as bad as 5'11.

That said with all the work that goes into evaluation every year It seems crazy to think that someone would be judged on the rest of the quarterbacks to come out that year.

 

 

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

He's big, has a strong arm and has very good pocket presence. And if he has to take off and run, he's very dangerous. He might not have an arm as strong as Allen's and he might not hurdle guys like Allen often does, but there are similarities. Add to that that he is being coached by Daboll and I can see him developing into a similar type of QB as Allen. 

 

I think people are making the mistake of seeing the Daniel Jones who was coached by Joe Judge and his staff and saying that's who he is. I'm seeing a guy with all the physical and mental attributes that you look for in a QB who is now being coached by a top notch QB staff. That's the guy I see now and moving forward.    

 

Jones has basically been the same guy in the NFL that he was in college. Good, but not really great at anything. Very serviceable, but not a game changer.

 

Just because he's big and can run and is coached by the same guy as Josh Allen doesn't mean he's magically going to turn into anything even close to the passer that Allen is, and I haven't seen any indications this season that he will. He also doesn't have anything close to Allen's arm. I'd say Jones is middle of the road in regards to arm strength.

 

That's like saying that any QB with a big arm, good mobility, and who is coached by Andy Reid will turn into Mahomes.

[CommanderCarson]

This thread has lost its collective minds. So bc the giants have our number and won a playoff game, we can’t or shouldn’t comment on what signing Daniel Jones to a crazy cap number would mean for building out the rest of their roster? That doesn’t mean that we’re better than them or that we don’t wish we had someone even as capable as DJ. Strange. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by CommanderCarson