The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, The Rook said:

There is some crazy money tied up with Carr, but I think he would the best QB this team has had in a long time.  The trouble with this team is they would also botch the trade and overpay.

 

 

https://overthecap.com/player/derek-carr/2975

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

Carr looks WAY better than Taylor did against the Colts. And he’s missing Waller and Renfrow. 
 

But yeah agree you don’t take on ALL of Carr’s salary the way they did for Wentz. If they do I’d want no part of that deal 

Raiders could have won, Carr throws a perfect pass in the end zone to win the game but his receiver drops it. Perfect, Raiders go get Stroud. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

 

On the topic of Carr, this reminds me of Stafford being stuck in DET for so many years and the losing, being surrounded by losers who don’t care as much as you do, it wears on you. I know there are guys on this Washington roster, like Allen, who feel this way. 

[88Comrade2000]

23 QB. Right now I say it’s Carson. With the team up for sale, they aren’t going to make a trade for someone else.

 

Now, if the new owner can be in place before the new league year officially starts; it depends on what the new owner wants. Maybe they trade for a another vet qb. Maybe they trade up to draft a qb, by using draft picks and players. 
 

I don’t think there’s going be any big moves at qb or in general during the transition from one owner to another.

[redskinss]

I'll say this, after watching John woeful quarterbacking for the rams today, heinicke is a quality backup compared to him that's for sure.

[KDawg]

The answer isn’t trading a ransom for Derek Carr. This team needs a line. Trading draft choices for Carr doesn’t help improve our line. I’m someone that says a QB makes the entire team better and I truly believe that. But this line can’t protect a QB at all. 
 

If they can somehow shore up the line and get Carr and plug other necessary holes… fine. But I don’t see how that’s possible with draft assets and cap.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The answer isn’t trading a ransom for Derek Carr. This team needs a line. Trading draft choices for Carr doesn’t help improve our line. I’m someone that says a QB makes the entire team better and I truly believe that. But this line can’t protect a QB at all. 
 

If they can somehow shore up the line and get Carr and plug other necessary holes… fine. But I don’t see how that’s possible with draft assets and cap.

 

I don't think its hard at all to shore up two positions in the off season.  Obviously the personnel moves have to go right though.

 

QB is obviously the hard one.  They might not even have to trade for Carr, some talk about the Raiders releasing him.   When I've seen that on twitter my first thought is how isn't there too much dead money to do that?   Over the cap says the time for them to discard the contract is this off season.  Not sure though if that's a mistake?  

 

CONTRACT TERMS:3 yr(s) / $121,500,000

SIGNING BONUS$7,500,000

AVERAGE SALARY$40,500,000

GTD AT SIGN:$24,877,519

TOTAL GTD:$65,277,519

FREE AGENT:2026 / UFA

				BONUS BREAKDOWN		CAP DETAILS		CASH DETAILS
YEAR		AGE	BASE SALARY	SIGNING	WORKOUT	CAP HIT	DEAD CAP	YEARLY CASH
2022		31	$17,400,000	$1,875,000	$100,000	$19,375,000	$24,977,519	$25,000,000($25,000,000)
POTENTIAL OUT: 2023, 1 YR, $25,000,000; $5,625,000 DEAD CAP

Edited November 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think its hard at all to shore up two positions in the off season.  Obviously the personnel moves have to go right though.

 

QB is obviously the hard one.  They might not even have to trade for Carr, some talk about the Raiders releasing him.   When I've seen that on twitter my first thought is how isn't there too much dead money to do that?   Over the cap says the time for them to discard the contract is this off season.  Not sure though if that's a mistake?  

 

CONTRACT TERMS:3 yr(s) / $121,500,000

SIGNING BONUS$7,500,000

AVERAGE SALARY$40,500,000

GTD AT SIGN:$24,877,519

TOTAL GTD:$65,277,519

FREE AGENT:2026 / UFA

				BONUS BREAKDOWN		CAP DETAILS		CASH DETAILS
YEAR		AGE	BASE SALARY	SIGNING	WORKOUT	CAP HIT	DEAD CAP	YEARLY CASH
2022		31	$17,400,000	$1,875,000	$100,000	$19,375,000	$24,977,519	$25,000,000($25,000,000)
POTENTIAL OUT: 2023, 1 YR, $25,000,000; $5,625,000 DEAD CAP

Ya I can’t hypothesize that they outright release him. 
 

If all we needed were two positions I’d be closer to agreement. We need 2-3 linemen, a QB, a CB, a slot CB, a LB to replace Holcomb, and we have to re-up Payne.

 

We’d need to trade Sweat and a few other pieces that we could move to get extra draft choices, and then the question becomes how damaged is Carr? Is he Stafford? If so that’s not all that inspiring as he had some real rough moments the last two years. I know they won the Super Bowl but that team was loaded and healthy last year. 
 

Not convinced Carr is the right answer.

[philibusters]

I cannot see Vegas releasing Carr simply because hes a good trade asset.  Somebody will likely give up a a valuable draft pick for him if Vegas wants to move on.

 

Carr would upgrade the team and likely make us a playoff team.  However he is 31 years old.   He probably gives you a 3 or 4 year playoff run window, but we wouldn't really be a contender.  His salary is going to be more than Wentz so it means we would have to let a good player or two go, maybe Payne, Samuel, and Holcomb for example.

 

Its a tough call because having a couple 10-7 years where we make the playoffs could be fun, similar to the Kirk Cousins years, but just due to his age and salary, I am not sure I would like the move.  Four years from now we would be looking for  a QB again.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Ya I can’t hypothesize that they outright release him. 
 

If all we needed were two positions I’d be closer to agreement. We need 2-3 linemen, a QB, a CB, a slot CB, a LB to replace Holcomb, and we have to re-up Payne.

 

We’d need to trade Sweat and a few other pieces that we could move to get extra draft choices, and then the question becomes how damaged is Carr? Is he Stafford? If so that’s not all that inspiring as he had some real rough moments the last two years. I know they won the Super Bowl but that team was loaded and healthy last year. 
 

Not convinced Carr is the right answer.

 

Cap is going up.  And I hope we are about to have a new owner with the cash or is willing to spend the cash to grab future cap like what the Eagles do, etc.  Cap is supposed to soar in future years thanks to the new TV contracts.

 

I don't think any spots on defense are code red.  There is going to have to be a weakness or two on any roster as you know.  Would I love another corner and LB, you bet. Do I feel those are do or die spots, not at all.  Do or die to me is O line and QB.   If they resign Holcomb won't be the end of the world to me, he's not IMO getting big money in FA.  And the team isn't bad ar drafting the secondary without using a high pick. 

 

I'll add, good article about the Eagles years back interviewing Howie Roseman which I posted back then.  Cliff notes version of that is the Eagles were obsessed with the QB spot.  They went you can built the rest of the rsoter but without a QB you aren't going to win and their plan was to shoot at that spot if need be EVERY year.  They went the problem in their view is teams try and then sit on their move for years even when the evidence is pretty compelling its not going to work out -- they go at least doube down on the spot if you feel in limbo and keep swinging, every year if need be and eventually you'll get it right.  I am in that same camp.

 

I am not really married to any specific player.   But Carr to me I've seen enough and believe he's an undervalued asset.  Reminds me in some ways of Kirk where he gets blamed for not being a Mahomes type who can carry a roster at times.  He's not great.  But IMO he's good.  And I think this roster is strong enough to win with good.  I'd be more afraid of his salary than trading assets.  I do not want any part of that contract.  So i'd want a deal like the Colts made and Carolina did where the team swallowed a chunk of that contract.  As a FA if he's released I'd not give him a mega contract and if another team offered him one, I'd bow out.   

Edited November 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

We are not one player away - not even close and depth is crucial. IMO chasing vet/retread QB's in the offseason would be a monumental mistake, which is a prime reason why I am clamoring for Howell. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

We are not one player away - not even close and depth is crucial. IMO chasing vet/retread QB's in the offseason would be a monumental mistake, which is a prime reason why I am clamoring for Howell. 

 

I 100% disagree but if I agreed that they are a mile away, I would stay away from chasing QBs too.  Cooley thinks they are a QB and O line fortification away from beingt an 11-12 win team, I am with him on that.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

Please. Enough with teams' let-gos.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Professor_Nutter_Butter

[DWinzit]

I still can't see Carr as a big difference maker. He just doesn't seem much better than the QB's we have. 

I also fail to see why he would have any interest in coming to Washington at this point

[Skinsinparadise]

O line and QB

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

21 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

God damn it..........and so it begins. 

 

What have I done 

You have a done a great job altering the title of this thread over the year! 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I still can't see Carr as a big difference maker. He just doesn't seem much better than the QB's we have. 

I also fail to see why he would have any interest in coming to Washington at this point

 

If Carr is as bad as our QBs, that's fairly wretched.  Carr in the top 10 in QBR, Wentz and Heinicke both almost dead last. 

 

As for him coming here, depends IMO on ownership, if its this owner, he'd have no interest I agree.  

 

I am not married by a long shot to Carr but IMO he's far from in the same bucket of Taylor and Carson.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Carr is as bad as our QBs, that's fairly wretched.  Carr in the top 10 in QBR, Wentz and Heinicke both almost dead last. 

 

As for him coming here, depends IMO on ownership, if its this owner, he'd have no interest I agree.  

 

I am not married by a long shot to Carr but IMO he's far from in the same bucket of Taylor and Carson.

Yes Carr is a bit better than Carson and the crew but I question just how much. I also think it is more than just ownership. We do not have a line to protect him or a legit OC

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yes Carr is a bit better than Carson and the crew but I question just how much. I also think it is more than just ownership. We do not have a line to protect him or a legit OC

 

He's better than just "a bit" over Carson IMO.  And this line can be fixed IMO.  Lol, the Giants were a perennial joke because of their O line and then all of a sudden this season it turned around, and we are a joke but on that subject its a first time joke on that front, I don't think this is our new permanent reality. 

 

But I don't care arguing about it anymore.  If Carr is a bit better than Carson or per your other post you lump him with Heinicke too -- then I gather you think he's a below average QB, so we are too far apart on this subject to debate it.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I still can't see Carr as a big difference maker. He just doesn't seem much better than the QB's we have. 

I also fail to see why he would have any interest in coming to Washington at this point

I get not wanting anymore QB’s another team is moving on from.  I get not wanting to pay Carr $40M+ per season for sure.

 

But he doesn’t just seem much better than what we already have, he’s head and shoulders and arms and legs and hands and knees better than what we have.

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's better than just "a bit" over Carson IMO.  And this line can be fixed IMO.  Lol, the Giants were a perennial joke because of their O line and then all of a sudden this season it turned around, and we are a joke but on that subject its a first time joke on that front, I don't think this is our new permanent reality. 

 

But I don't care arguing about it anymore.  If Carr is a bit better than Carson or per your other post you compare him to Heinicke too -- then I gather you think he's a below average QB, so we are too far apart on this subject to debate it.

I was just never high on the Carr bandwagon like you. I dont see him as a major difference maker for this team with the rest of the baggage that currently exists with this team. The owner and front office need fixing. The OC, ehhh. And yes, the Oline needs a ton of work. We do have some weapons but so does Carr in Vegas. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I was just never high on the Carr bandwagon like you. I dont see him as a major difference maker for this team with the rest of the baggage that currently exists with this team. The owner and front office need fixing. The OC, ehhh. And yes, the Oline needs a ton of work. We do have some weapons but so does Carr in Vegas. 

 

Raiders are banged up and have a wretched defense.  But yeah if Carr is in the same bucket for you as Heinicke -- yuck I'd run a mile away from Carr -- it would mean to me Carr isn't even a legit NFL starter so saying you aren't on a bandwagon relating to Carr is an understatement. 

 

But I do feel its a waste of time debating it just like it was last year.  My main interest is from what I can tell THIS FO was VERY interested in Carr judging by Keim early in the off season.  So if he's in play and we have the same FO I think this team would poke around. 

 

Bandwagon is too strong of a word.  I don't think this team is shopping in ANY aisle that's exciting.  We aren't in the top 5 of the draft or shopping in the aisle of top 10 QBs.  So we have no choice but to shop in that next tier.  the 12-18 shopping aisle or the 2nd tier of QBs in the draft.  And in that aisle IMO Carr is one of the more attrractive options -- if and only if you aren't taking on that full contract he got from the Raiders.

 

I am ok with trying Howell if we see what we got from him this season.  But I am not riding on just him without seeing anything this season.  I am higher on this defense than some.  And I know some agree with me on the defense, too.  I don't want to waste it again on crap QB play and I don't think its mission impossible to fix this O line in one off season.  Just this off season Rivera was touting the O line as an asset.  I don't think they are going to chill in the off season as to the O line, Rivera has made it very clear he's aware of the issue.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I was just thinking about what SIP posted the other day, that Ron called Minny about Cousins.  Just imagine the entertainment that would have brought us.  Instead we are here eating each other alive in civil war over Taylor Heineke.

 

 

[method man]

I’d be onboard with Carr but it’s probably not happening for this team if the earliest the new owner can get into place is March. Other teams will beat this team to the punch on Carr

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I was just thinking about what SIP posted the other day, that Ron called Minny about Cousins.  Just imagine the entertainment that would have brought us.  Instead we are here eating each other alive in civil war over Taylor Heineke.

 

 

 

In retrospect, I am glad it went down just the way it did.

 

A.  traded assets for a 34 year QB AGAIN

 

B.  wasted another first round pick AGAIN reaching for a QB in the draft

 

C.  the owner AGAIN making the QB move in the draft and it bombing

 

So they used a first rounder, three third rounders (one might end up a 2nd rounder) a ton of cap money and we got to watch dudes like Case Keenum, J. Johnson and a slew of other retreads, backup types run the QB spot.

 

The run of misery at QB I think is one part of that soup to Dan being in the place he's at, with low stadium attendance, TV ratings, etc.  We've majored in mediocre to suck.  Yeah Kirk is not elite and might not be even top 10.  But lol, as much as Kirk haters say he's had no highights in Minny -- just his playoff win alone in NO against Brees tops any highlight we've had under Dan.  If Dan had a 7-1 team right now he might dig in more about not selling.  So it all ended up well IMO.

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

19 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I was just thinking about what SIP posted the other day, that Ron called Minny about Cousins.  Just imagine the entertainment that would have brought us.  Instead we are here eating each other alive in civil war over Taylor Heineke.

 

 

 

With our O-Line and Turner?  There would be no entertainment.