The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Warhead36]

I'm excited we can actually utilize the entire field like all the other top notch offenses do. Watching the offense the last couple years was painful with how everything had to be played in a phone booth because of the limits of our QBs.

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Here’s what I expect happens. I think there’s a possibility Terry has a slow start to open the season based on the way teams are covering him. Let’s face it regardless of what we or the coaching staff thinks of Dotson/Samuel one is a rookie and one hasn’t done it in a Washington uniform so they aren’t going to demand the coverage Terry does to start the season. We need those two to take advantage early in the season. If they do and teams can’t focus solely on Terry after a few games you’ll see his numbers explode.

They need to dial up a deep shot to either Dotson or Samuel on the first play of the season.  If that doesn't work, they need to do it on second down, and again on third down.  If they go 3-out, they need to try again the next 3 down.  If you don't hit one of 6, the season is over and they should play Howell the remainder of the year.

 

 

Kidding aside, I actually think the will come out and try and feature Dotson and Samuel a bit just for the reason they will want to take advantage of probably less coverage on that side than to Terry, and also if they hit a few to either of them early, it will make defenses play more "straight up" on Terry. 

 

I don't see Terry starting out slowly, unless there is an injury.  I think they have enough weapons to pull coverage, and he should have a monster season right from the get-go, the caveat being, if Wentz is who some of us think he is.  Which is 10-15 QB in the NFL.  If he proves to be more like Mitch Mariota, then, eh, it won't be as good, but it will still be better than anything Terry has played with to this point.  

[wit33]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wentz's arm doesn't need to mature. The coaches also like how he operates their quick underneath game.

The Commanders have speed at receiver that can threaten horizontally or vertically, but at its core the Turner offense wants to go down the field. Since entering the league, Wentz ranks eighth in passing attempts of 20 air yards or more, 11th with 140 touchdown passes (eighth since 2017) and 19th in Total QBR (12th since 2017) according to ESPN Stats & Information research. During that same span, Washington's Total QBR ranks 31st and its 98 touchdown passes rank 28th.

That's why Zampese won't try to change a guy who likes to throw deep.

"I want that guy," Zampese said. "We've been looking for guys like this; there aren't too many like that. It's easier to get a guy to back off than to push a guy the other way. This is hog heaven for us. This is exactly what we wanted."

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-commanders/post/_/id/42425/carson-wentzs-spring-fills-washington-commanders-with-optimism

Love it.
 

This is what Wentz needs in his ear!  A guy to share better form on how to make a left handed pass versus not doing them it at all  Go be the best QB in the league!

 

3s and Lay ups! Rinse and repeat. 

[RandyHolt]

I wish a team besides NE would be bold enough to just go deep 3 plays in a row. Instead a coach will be bold and dialup a deep ball on 1st but if they fail seem to just give up and roll back to run run short pass punt and give up. If you think you have an advantage deep just stay with it!  To me 2nd and 10 should be considered a passing down yes even if you passed on first down and failed. Stretch the damn field. 

 

While the game has changed a ton in the past few years many coaches still have an old school traditional approach embedded in their DNA. Has anyone asked the older coaches why they NEVER went for it on 4th down and would instead punt net 20 out of the back of the endzone endless times a year?

 

GO DEEP early DAMMIT I am convinced DCs hate when teams go deep. DBs get gassed / exposed. DCs have to adjust. I really think they want run run short pass all day long. F that and F them its time to rip the training wheels off and be able to score quickly.

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by RandyHolt

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Run well enough to pull single high coverage, then air it out.

 

Willing to bet Wentz will go deep instead of dump offs too, which is great since we have Terry, who's a contested catch monster and it looks like Dotson might be too.

If they try to run to set up the pass, they're going about it wrong. They also don't really have to run that well.  Though it would be a nice side-benefit if they could.

 

They shouldn't need to run the ball to dictate coverage. 
 

On paper, if you put Terry, Dotson, Samuel, Gibson and a TE (Thomas hopefully, but Turner if Thomas is not available), you can dictate coverage just with formation and routes.  They can't double cover everybody, and there is enough speed on the field to stretch the defense. Then it comes down to Wentz.  Can he find/hit the open guy.  Time will tell.  But I'm actually really confident Scott can scheme guys open on just about every play with this group.  He did last year, with a lesser group.  Except TH didn't see them and couldn't hit them.  

 

Which is why I said I want to see them throw the ball 65%. Which might be a bit of an exaggeration to prove a point.  But they don't have to run the ball to maintain balance.  I actually don't care about the overall percentage, I want to see them being aggressive on every series of downs.  I don't want them to try and pick up first downs, I want them to try and pick up chunks of yardage.  

 

That seems to be how the team is built.  It would be really disappointing if they tried to play some version of Marty Ball with this group of players.  Which is what they had to do last year to be competitive.  

[Mrshadow008]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They need to dial up a deep shot to either Dotson or Samuel on the first play of the season.  If that doesn't work, they need to do it on second down, and again on third down.  If they go 3-out, they need to try again the next 3 down.  If you don't hit one of 6, the season is over and they should play Howell the remainder of the year.

 

 

Kidding aside, I actually think the will come out and try and feature Dotson and Samuel a bit just for the reason they will want to take advantage of probably less coverage on that side than to Terry, and also if they hit a few to either of them early, it will make defenses play more "straight up" on Terry. 

 

I don't see Terry starting out slowly, unless there is an injury.  I think they have enough weapons to pull coverage, and he should have a monster season right from the get-go, the caveat being, if Wentz is who some of us think he is.  Which is 10-15 QB in the NFL.  If he proves to be more like Mitch Mariota, then, eh, it won't be as good, but it will still be better than anything Terry has played with to this point.  

Yeah I don’t think he starts out slow as in not productive per se. I think you’ll get your normal Terry numbers early(which is nothing to sneeze at). But as you said If the other two can take advantage I think you’ll see Terrys #s really take off once teams are forced to play him more straight up. 
I tell you one think I cannot wait to see Terry Vs Diggs in week 4. Dallas seemed to play Terry fairly straight up with Diggs covering him. Terry could’ve had 3-4 TDs between those two games. If they do that again Terry could be in for a monster game in week 4 with Wentz actually having the arm talent to get him the ball 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If they try to run to set up the pass, they're going about it wrong. They also don't really have to run that well.  Though it would be a nice side-benefit if they could.

 

This is a comical statement/opinion. Just drop back and chuck it huh??? Forget about the run....lets see how long Wentz stays healthy doing that. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

This is a comical statement/opinion. Just drop back and chuck it huh??? Forget about the run....lets see how long Wentz stays healthy doing that. 

Nobody said forget about the run.  I said if they run to set up the pass they are missing the point of the modern NFL.  You do not have to run to set up the pass. You might have in the 70's and 80's.  But even then, Dick Vermeil, when he was with the Eagles, even said that was backwards, and you pass to set up the run.  The WCO was predicated around the short pass replacing the run.  

 

The idea of "run to set up the pass" has been debunked over the past 20 years.  You run in order to assert your will and physicality on the defense. This is important  It doesn't help with balance though.  Mike Leach summed it up best: “There’s nothing balanced about the 50 percent run, 50 percent pass because that’s 50 percent stupid,” Leach said in his media conference earlier this week.

 

Balance is getting touches to all of your play makers in some form so the defense doesn't know where the ball is going.  If you run the ball 30 times with 2 players, that's not balance because 2 players get ~40% of the touches.  

 

So, they need to run the ball, but it shouldn't be a "run-first" offense where the whole offense runs through the running game.  It needs to be a pass-first offense when there offense runs through Wentz and the run game is complementary.  

[Warhead36]

An above average running play nets you 4 yards. An average passing play nets you 6. Its simply inefficient to place any emphasis at all on running the ball besides goal line and clock kill situations. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I wish a team besides NE would be bold enough to just go deep 3 plays in a row. Instead a coach will be bold and dialup a deep ball on 1st but if they fail seem to just give up and roll back to run run short pass punt and give up. If you think you have an advantage deep just stay with it!  To me 2nd and 10 should be considered a passing down yes even if you passed on first down and failed. Stretch the damn field. 

 

While the game has changed a ton in the past few years many coaches still have an old school traditional approach embedded in their DNA. Has anyone asked the older coaches why they NEVER went for it on 4th down and would instead punt net 20 out of the back of the endzone endless times a year?

 

GO DEEP early DAMMIT I am convinced DCs hate when teams go deep. DBs get gassed / exposed. DCs have to adjust. I really think they want run run short pass all day long. F that and F them its time to rip the training wheels off and be able to score quickly.

 

With the rules as they are, which favors the passing game, it always drove me absolutely bananas when Jay would run for 0 yards on first down, then try a "get back on schedule" play to pick up 4-6 yards on second down to set up a third down.  

 

Scott Turner does that at times too, though less often.  I like Scott (I have a rather .... lengthy posting history of not liking Jay however), but it drives me when he does it also.

 

Mike Martz was one one of the first who really embraced the idea.  Try and pick up at least 10 yards on every play.  So virtually every play is a 3rd and 10 play.  The whole playbook is open to you on every play.  

 

I want them to shoot for 30 ppg.  They most likely won't get there, but they should not be trying to win games 15-12 every week. 

[FootballZombie]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

An above average running play nets you 4 yards. An average passing play nets you 6. Its simply inefficient to place any emphasis at all on running the ball besides goal line and clock kill situations. 

 

Depends on your team comp, otherwise your just mashing a square peg into a round hole.

 

I don't think anyone would look at the Balt Ravens as currently constructed and figure they need to be as heavily pass predicated as possible, even in a heavily pass favored league. They have to tools to reliably put down a dominant rushing attack, and have fully proven the ability to do so on the field in previous seasons, so there should be little to no question as to their ability. They absolutely should be playing to their strengths and be a very run-centric offense this season. It does not matter that rushing is inherent less efficient than passing, you should be putting your guys in the best position to win, and part of that is playing to their strengths.

 

Yes this is a pass happy era, but it takes personnel to have success while doing it, otherwise you just turn into Jacksonville. You can't just become a pass-obsessed offense for the sake of becoming a pass-obsessed offense. 

 

You do what you do well, and throw in wrinkles over time. If they work, cool, then you expand on it. If not, your not depth charging your own team in the process.

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

An above average running play nets you 4 yards. An average passing play nets you 6. Its simply inefficient to place any emphasis at all on running the ball besides goal line and clock kill situations. 

FWIW, Wentz's career Yards per Attempt is 6.8.  Last year it was 6.9.  High water mark of 7.7 in 2018, and 7.5 in 2017.  

 

ProFootballReference has this metric called "Adjusted Yards Gained per Pass Attempt.  This takes into account TD passes and INTs.  The actual formula is [Passing Yards + (20*Passing TDS) - (40*INT)]/Passing Attempts.  So basically they give you 20 extra yards per TD and subtract 45 yards per INT.  

 

Wentz's career AY/A is 6.9.  Last year he was 7.1.  High water mark in 2017 of 8.3, low of 5.3 in 2020.  

 

The year I want Wentz to try and emulate is 2019.  That's the year after his second major injury, and he played in all 16 games.  He had 4,000 yards, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, 6.7 Y/A, 7.0 AY/A.

 

If he replicates 2019, which he clearly CAN do since it is after the injuries, we'll be in contention for the division for sure, and unless the defense lays an egg, probably an 11 or 12 win team at minimum.  (I think he's going to have closer to 4,500 yards, especially with another game, and I think our weapons are more explosive than the ones he had in Philly in 2019.

 

Wentz really had ONE bad year in his career, 2020.  And maybe that was due to both immaturity, and also the fact literally the entire Eagles team except for him was having an IR party while he was still playing.  2019 wasn't the best year of his career, but it was REALLY good, he was the comeback player of the year.  2020 was awful, and his 2021 wasn't terrible either.

 

I think the narrative on Wentz from a pure football perspective has been really skewed by the Irsay/Ballard slime machine.  Going into 2020, there isn't a GM in the league who would have said Wentz wasn't one of the top 10 QBs in the league.  Then 2020 happened, he bounced back significantly in 2021 from the low of 2020, and now he's still rated behind Matt Jones, Tua, Daniel Jones, and some other QBs who have never done anything ever.  

 

He's going to have some inconsistencies.  He's not Brady, Rodgers, Herbert, Burrow.  I lump him in with a group that would include Carr, Cousins and Tannehill, maybe a few others.  

 

We're probably going to get a few outstanding games, we might get a clunker or two.  My hope is we get a lot of "good" as the average.  If we get that, we'll be just fine.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Depends on your team comp, otherwise your just mashing a square peg into a round hole.

 

I don't think anyone would look at the Balt Ravens as currently constructed and figure they need to be as heavily pass predicated as possible, even in a heavily pass favored league. They have to tools to reliably put down a dominant rushing attack, and have fully proven the ability to do so on the field in previous seasons, so there should be little to no question as to their ability. They absolutely should be playing to their strengths and be a very run-centric offense this season. It does not matter that rushing is inherent less efficient than passing, you should be putting your guys in the best position to win, and part of that is playing to their strengths.

 

Yes this is a pass happy era, but it takes personnel to have success while doing it, otherwise you just turn into Jacksonville. You can't just become a pass-obsessed offense for the sake of becoming a pass-obsessed offense. 

 

You do what you do well, and throw in wrinkles over time. If they work, cool, then you expand on it. If not, your not depth charging your own team in the process.

And all that said, we are built to be a pass-first, explosive, attack down the field team.  

 

Terry - 4.35

Samuel - 4.31

Dotson - 4.43

Brown - 4.45

Antonio Gibson - 4.39

Logan Thomas - 4.61

Chase Turner - 4.76

 

Even our slower TEs aren't super slow.  (Ok, Chase Turner isn't that quick, I'll grant you that.  But he's big.  (queue Zorn's "he's tall!") )

 

We are built to throw the ball down the field to open up the medium (9-18 yard) passing game.  Get people to back off, then bludgeon them with the run a few times, then back at throwing over their heads.  Mix in some quick game for cheap yards when DBs are playing off. 

 

** I actually expect to see a whole lot of quick game when DBs are off.  Wentz is good at it, it's an easy read.  If a DB is going to line up 10 yards off of Terry, Wentz has the arm to throw a quick slant before the DB has any hope of recovering.  TH just couldn't do it consistently.  The ball hung and gave the DB time to close the gap.  Same thing with quick outs, stop routes, etc.  If the DB is going to play off because they're respecting the speed, I think you're going to see a whole lot of easy 4-8 yard quick throws. They are actually a better way of setting up the defense for deep throws than a run. Because you're messing directly with the head of the DB.

 

Then when the DB starts creeping up, BAM, put your foot in the ground and explode right past them.  The absolute best I've ever seen at that was Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning.  DB would be off 10 yards, give Marvin cushion.  Quick Slant.  Quick Out.  Quick Slant again.  Short Cross.  The DB starts to cheat up, BAM, Marvin puts some wiggle at the stem, takes 2 steps, and he's a foot clear of the DB who's facing the wrong way with his back turned and has no hope of recovery, and Peyton just lays it out there for him.  They probably did that 500 times.  It was beautiful. (Peyton would help Marvin out with a little pump at the top of the route at times). 

 

I don't remember who it was against, but I can close my eyes and see one play, Marvin ran a modified slant, straight up the field for about 5 yards, then he would break to the slant. He'd run it twice before.  At the top of the route, he made the move in exactly the same way he would if he was going to the slant, Peyton pumped it, the DB jumped it, Marvin broke the other way, the DB fell flat on his face, and Peyton played catch as though it was warmups for something like a 30 yard gain.  It was BEAUTIFUL.  There is a chance it was against us....  

 

I don't know what Scott Turner would do with this group.  But Norv would be looking to stretch the field early to open up the underneath stuff and the running game. I hope Junior does the same.  

 

 

[Mrshadow008]

48 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

FWIW, Wentz's career Yards per Attempt is 6.8.  Last year it was 6.9.  High water mark of 7.7 in 2018, and 7.5 in 2017.  

 

ProFootballReference has this metric called "Adjusted Yards Gained per Pass Attempt.  This takes into account TD passes and INTs.  The actual formula is [Passing Yards + (20*Passing TDS) - (40*INT)]/Passing Attempts.  So basically they give you 20 extra yards per TD and subtract 45 yards per INT.  

 

Wentz's career AY/A is 6.9.  Last year he was 7.1.  High water mark in 2017 of 8.3, low of 5.3 in 2020.  

 

The year I want Wentz to try and emulate is 2019.  That's the year after his second major injury, and he played in all 16 games.  He had 4,000 yards, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, 6.7 Y/A, 7.0 AY/A.

 

If he replicates 2019, which he clearly CAN do since it is after the injuries, we'll be in contention for the division for sure, and unless the defense lays an egg, probably an 11 or 12 win team at minimum.  (I think he's going to have closer to 4,500 yards, especially with another game, and I think our weapons are more explosive than the ones he had in Philly in 2019.

 

Wentz really had ONE bad year in his career, 2020.  And maybe that was due to both immaturity, and also the fact literally the entire Eagles team except for him was having an IR party while he was still playing.  2019 wasn't the best year of his career, but it was REALLY good, he was the comeback player of the year.  2020 was awful, and his 2021 wasn't terrible either.

 

I think the narrative on Wentz from a pure football perspective has been really skewed by the Irsay/Ballard slime machine.  Going into 2020, there isn't a GM in the league who would have said Wentz wasn't one of the top 10 QBs in the league.  Then 2020 happened, he bounced back significantly in 2021 from the low of 2020, and now he's still rated behind Matt Jones, Tua, Daniel Jones, and some other QBs who have never done anything ever.  

 

He's going to have some inconsistencies.  He's not Brady, Rodgers, Herbert, Burrow.  I lump him in with a group that would include Carr, Cousins and Tannehill, maybe a few others.  

 

We're probably going to get a few outstanding games, we might get a clunker or two.  My hope is we get a lot of "good" as the average.  If we get that, we'll be just fine.  

I think the fact that he got sacked 50 times in 12 games might’ve had something to do with the ugly 2020. But shhh don’t tell anybody doesn’t fit the narrative that he’s just terrible 

[TheShredder]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm excited we can actually utilize the entire field like all the other top notch offenses do. Watching the offense the last couple years was painful with how everything had to be played in a phone booth because of the limits of our QBs.

2022 Washington takes the Training Wheels off !!

Edited July 6, 2022 by TheShredder

[zCommander]

On 7/4/2022 at 2:35 PM, Llevron said:

I keep hearing this from every Filthy fan. The reasoning is because after the season HIS BACK IP WON THE SUPERBOWL he felt like he was looking over his shoulder. 
 

I mean duh. Who wouldn’t. If that happens here great lol 

 

Not talking about his SB run. The big moments throws - unlike the side-arm throw right into the hands of a defender instead when the game is on the line aka Cousins syndrome. 

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And all that said, we are built to be a pass-first, explosive, attack down the field team.  

 

Terry - 4.35

Samuel - 4.31

Dotson - 4.43

Brown - 4.45

Antonio Gibson - 4.39

Logan Thomas - 4.61

Chase Turner - 4.76

 

Speed is a great thing, but it not itself alone an indicator of running a prolific passing offense. I remember a few years ago the Giants had the fastest projected 11 skill position players in the league. Panthers were right there with 'em too. Its nice to have, but It is not like some magic key to unlocking the deep ball or having a prolific air attack. In fact it is severely over-rated in that regard. The Bucs were dang near molasses last year.

 

Mike Evans (28) - 4.53

Antonio Brown (33) - 4.47

Chris Goodwin - 4.42

Gronk (32) - 4.68

Gio Bernard (30) - 4.53

Leo Fournette - 4.51

 

Most of those guys are not even gonna hit their posted forty times due to age, but they still cranked out a crazy prolific air attack. Brady certainly has a lot to do with that as well.

 

 

Were very likely gonna be short Logan Thomas for some period of time. That's a major contributor. Samuel will likely be pulling double duty as a RB, further harming the Pass/Run ratio. Dotson is a rookie and Dynami might as well be one after his first year was essentially a punt. Even with Terry pulling the absolute weight of the world, your talking about a group that ranks in the dregs of the league in terms of proven production. Their ability to succeed on any level is nearly entirely potential based. Potential I like in a lot of cases, but potential none the less.

 

Meanwhile we have the guy who ranked 6th in rushing last year, playing vs defenses that knew they could stay so shallow they could line up in our backfield before a play started. Even maintained continuity by bringing back McKissic. That alone is a good level of proven production, that we have already demonstrated our ability to execute. Add on the absolute gravy of whatever Robinson and Samuel provide, and it takes the RB situation over the top. Its not quite Chubb and Hunt in Clev, but this is one of the best RB rooms in the NFL. 

 

 

Right now, at this very moment, people should be very confident in our ability to build a prolific rushing attack if so desired and at best only hopeful of our ability to field a prolific passing one if that is the chosen direction. Between a lack of proven production, a massive reliance on rookies between WR and TE, a QB learning a new system, an OC who has never fielded that sort of offense successfully (Even if it was not his fault due to handicaps)... there are simply way too many question marks.

 

For that angle alone I think we end up with a top 10 rushing rate next season. Turner would be scattering his O's fate to the Quantum winds to try and go pass happy with that backdrop.

Edited July 6, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[samy316]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Yep, it goes to what I said about how the media/NFL fans think of Carson Wentz.  Until proven otherwise, no one expects Wentz to do well here in DC.  It's up to him to change the narrative surrounding him.  His stock is about as low as any NFL starting QB at the moment.  Either it's a great opportunity to buy low, or will his stock be delisted if he screws up here in DC like he did in Indy & Philly.

Edited July 6, 2022 by samy316

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

Yep, it goes to what I said about how the media/NFL fans think of Carson Wentz.  Until proven otherwise, no one expects Wentz to do well here in DC.  It's up to him to change the narrative surrounding him.  His stock is about as low as any NFL starting QB at the moment.  Either it's a great opportunity to buy low, or will his stock be delisted if he screws up here in DC like he did in Indy & Philly.

 

I like the Wentz trade.  But I also try to live in reality.  It doesn't escape me that most of the national media is out on Wentz -- worse than that he's a joke to them, a punchline.  And also most of the NFL personnel insiders who have talked about this are also down on Wentz.

 

I used to say if we signed Trubisky we would have gotten the off season punch line at the QB spot.  But I was wrong, Wentz is clearly the punchline.  We would have gotten better buzz if we signed Case Keenum to lead the troops than Wentz.

 

To me it all feels over the top and crazy.  If they want to make the case he's inconsistent, not clutch enough and his days of being eliite are gone -- I can see the impetus for those arguments.  But the arguments instead seem to be he's comically awful.  Even though the facts don't back that up.  Nonetheless, that's the narrative and backdrop for this season for Wentz.  Should be really interesting. 

 

And as I've said among others here, pretty much every QB move we've made over the years has been well received by the national media -- this one being the exception.  Maybe that's a good omen?

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[samy316]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like the Wentz trade.  But I also try to live in reality.  It doesn't escape me that most of the national media is out on Wentz -- worse than that he's a joke to them, a punchline.  And also most of the NFL personnel insiders who have talked about this are also down on Wentz.

 

I used to say if we signed Trubisky we would have gotten the off season punch line at the QB spot.  But I was wrong, Wentz is clearly the punchline.  We would have gotten better buzz if we signed Case Keenum to lead the troops than Wentz.

 

To me it all feels over the top and crazy.  If they want to make the case he's inconsistent, not clutch enough and his days of being eliite are gone -- I can see the impetus for those arguments.  But the arguments instead seem to be he's comically awful.  Even though the facts don't back that up.  Nonetheless, that's the narrative and backdrop for this season for Wentz.  Should be really interesting. 

 

And as I've said among others here, pretty much every QB move we've made over the years has been well received by the national media -- this one being the exception.  Maybe that's a good omen?

 

 

 

 

 

I would also say that this goes to how we're viewed nationally as well.  I know some of our other QB moves were praised in the past, but it's hard to ignore how much this franchise has fallen in the eyes of the NFL world for the past 5 years.  We're probably the most hated team in the NFL (although the Cleveland Browns are giving us a run for our money nowadays).  We might have gotten the benefit of the doubt before, but now we're just a boring team who doesn't splurge on FA's, we have a despised owner and we're mediocre year in and year out.  This team has lost it's good will, and the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.  Unless we have several years of double digit wins and playoff wins, any moves we make will be viewed negatively.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

I would also say that this goes to how we're viewed nationally as well.  I know some of our other QB moves were praised in the past, but it's hard to ignore how much this franchise has fallen in the eyes of the NFL world for the past 5 years.  We're probably the most hated team in the NFL (although the Cleveland Browns are giving us a run for our money nowadays).  We might have gotten the benefit of the doubt before, but now we're just a boring team who doesn't splurge on FA's, we have a despised owner and we're mediocre year in and year out.  This team has lost it's good will, and the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.  Unless we have several years of double digit wins and playoff wins, any moves we make will be viewed negatively.

 

 

This is true.  But I'd say we don't even have to go that far back.  The Fitz signing was much better received than the Wentz deal -- its not even close.  And that's not long ago. 

[Koolblue13]

56 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like the Wentz trade.  But I also try to live in reality.  It doesn't escape me that most of the national media is out on Wentz -- worse than that he's a joke to them, a punchline.  And also most of the NFL personnel insiders who have talked about this are also down on Wentz.

 

I used to say if we signed Trubisky we would have gotten the off season punch line at the QB spot.  But I was wrong, Wentz is clearly the punchline.  We would have gotten better buzz if we signed Case Keenum to lead the troops than Wentz.

 

To me it all feels over the top and crazy.  If they want to make the case he's inconsistent, not clutch enough and his days of being eliite are gone -- I can see the impetus for those arguments.  But the arguments instead seem to be he's comically awful.  Even though the facts don't back that up.  Nonetheless, that's the narrative and backdrop for this season for Wentz.  Should be really interesting. 

 

And as I've said among others here, pretty much every QB move we've made over the years has been well received by the national media -- this one being the exception.  Maybe that's a good omen?

 

 

 

 

Wonder who the other teammates are. I'm really glad they'll be hooking up before camp, so they can hit the ground running. Terry's knowledge of Turners offense should really help out, too.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Ut oh lol...

 

 

 

 

*I love stirring **** up lol...

[Tress Is The Way]

19 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If they try to run to set up the pass, they're going about it wrong. They also don't really have to run that well.  Though it would be a nice side-benefit if they could.

 

They shouldn't need to run the ball to dictate coverage. 
 

On paper, if you put Terry, Dotson, Samuel, Gibson and a TE (Thomas hopefully, but Turner if Thomas is not available), you can dictate coverage just with formation and routes.  They can't double cover everybody, and there is enough speed on the field to stretch the defense. Then it comes down to Wentz.  Can he find/hit the open guy.  Time will tell.  But I'm actually really confident Scott can scheme guys open on just about every play with this group.  He did last year, with a lesser group.  Except TH didn't see them and couldn't hit them.  

 

Which is why I said I want to see them throw the ball 65%. Which might be a bit of an exaggeration to prove a point.  But they don't have to run the ball to maintain balance.  I actually don't care about the overall percentage, I want to see them being aggressive on every series of downs.  I don't want them to try and pick up first downs, I want them to try and pick up chunks of yardage.  

 

That seems to be how the team is built.  It would be really disappointing if they tried to play some version of Marty Ball with this group of players.  Which is what they had to do last year to be competitive.  

Just imagine also including McKissic with those as well as a change up. He was such a security blanket for TH last year, I am just salivating at the opportunities this offense could create if it clicks.