The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

You know what I can see....Malik Willis sitting there at #11 and the Commanders phone ringing. 

"Hi, this is the Steelers, we'll offer you are 1st and 2nd this year plus a 1st next year for your pick right now".

Done.

Steelers take Malik Willis at #11 overall.

Washington gets the #20 overall pick plus Pittsburgh's 2nd rounder and 2023 1st round.

Steelers get Washington's #11 overall and a 6th round in 2023.

The Steelers are said to be hot on Willis.

 

I'd take that deal right now in a heartbeat.  And then still probably draft one of either Corral, Ridder, or Howell (my preferred) at #20, and pick up an extra #1 for next year.  All day long.

[skinny21]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

I have a feeling that from a backlash perspective, signing Trubisky or Bridgewater and following that up by NOT drafting a QB at 11 might actually, somehow, be worse than doing nothing and outwardly missing on their big targets and just looking to next year. That isn’t a viable option because of the situation Rivera has put himself in at the QB position, of course. But pretending they have confidence Trubisky or Bridgewater could grow into the guy, which they’ll basically have to say in the media, will get IMMENSE backlash. They’ll be shocked by it imo if they try to sell that type of move, which they will if that’s what they’re stuck with. It’s going to be hard to watch if they don’t love one of these rookies in the 1st round and try to sell a bottom tier FA as the only solution. 

Shades of John Beck…

I agree though, punting until next year could be a better avenue than some of the other choices we might make.

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

My two cents....I think both Trubisky and TH will be better in 2022 based on how both spent 2021 and for opposite reasons. Trubisky got to learn after baptism by fire in Chicago and by playing in a suspect system/coaching staff. He got to watch and learn how Josh Allen and a good offense in Buffalo operate.

TH will be better after learning from his experience as a starting QB in the NFL. He'll clean up some of his erratic throws and make better decisions and maybe come back an even stronger QB.

I would be glad if we landed Trubisky...not as happy as if we landed a stud but I think MT is a good gamble moving forward, especially given the state of this years rookies coming out. 

That’s cool, I hope you’re right.  I do like Heinicke and would be curious to see what he looked like with a second year and less adversity, but I don’t want either guy starting for us.  Man, our options all kind of suck.

 

One thing is clear though… if we want a qb in the 2nd, we need to move into the 1st to get them so they have a much better chance of succeeding. 😜

[Redskins 2021]

 They will have to bring in someone. Even if Th was the Qb next year I am not saying he will or should be. They have to bring someone in to go against him in camp. Regardless, how anyone feels the team and his play was not good enough to not have a Qb battle in camp

 

 We needed to get a top 15 vet last season or this season. It looks like that may be difficult. Stafford would have been perfect. He may or may not have come here but right now that deal looks like a steal for rams. 

 

We could probably get JimmyG or Wentz but it sounds like we do not want to go that way. This year Trubisky and Mariota will be overpaid by teams because they are lower level starters and may be better then a teams current starter. Watson solves are Qb problem on the field he is perfect for Tunner offense but would cause major problems off the field. We have to do something we can not run it back with Heinicke

8 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

You know what I can see....Malik Willis sitting there at #11 and the Commanders phone ringing. 

"Hi, this is the Steelers, we'll offer you are 1st and 2nd this year plus a 1st next year for your pick right now".

Done.

Steelers take Malik Willis at #11 overall.

Washington gets the #20 overall pick plus Pittsburgh's 2nd rounder and 2023 1st round.

Steelers get Washington's #11 overall and a 6th round in 2023.

The Steelers are said to be hot on Willis.

 We probably can't get first and second but definitely there first. Steelers may not be good this year also.

7 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Injured his ACL on 10/31.  Typically takes 8-10 months to recover.  Best case scenario, he’s back for training camp.  Fortunately they didn’t find anything bad with his MCL.

 It definitely has to be looked at. He definitely the best of this bad Fa bunch.

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 They will have to bring in someone. Even if Th was the Qb next year I am not saying he will or should be. They have to bring someone in to go against him in camp. Regardless, how anyone feels the team and his play was not good enough to not have a Qb battle in camp

 

 We needed to get a top 15 vet last season or this season. It looks like that may be difficult. Stafford would have been perfect. He may or may not have come here but right now that deal looks like a steal for rams. 

 

We could probably get JimmyG or Wentz but it sounds like we do not want to go that way. This year Trubisky and Mariota will be overpaid by teams because they are lower level starters and may be better then a teams current starter. Watson solves are Qb problem on the field he is perfect for Tunner offense but would cause major problems off the field. We have to do something we can not run it back with Heinicke

 We probably can't get first and second but definitely there first. Steelers may not be good this year also.

The more I think about it this would be a great move for us...get the Steelers 2023 1st, coupled with our own and we're in great shape to get a better rookie QB coming out next year. If a team like Pittsburgh is that in love with Willis and wiling to move up to our spot to get him we should do it. 

[Redskins 2021]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

The more I think about it this would be a great move for us...get the Steelers 2023 1st, coupled with our own and we're in great shape to get a better rookie QB coming out next year. If a team like Pittsburgh is that in love with Willis and wiling to move up to our spot to get him we should do it. 

Yeah I have been saying same thing more first round picks make getting top vet or franchise rookie Qb easier.

[Zim489]

19 minutes ago, Conn said:

I have a feeling that from a backlash perspective, signing Trubisky or Bridgewater and following that up by NOT drafting a QB at 11 might actually, somehow, be worse than doing nothing and outwardly missing on their big targets and just looking to next year. That isn’t a viable option because of the situation Rivera has put himself in at the QB position, of course. But pretending they have confidence Trubisky or Bridgewater could grow into the guy, which they’ll basically have to say in the media, will get IMMENSE backlash. They’ll be shocked by it imo if they try to sell that type of move, which they will if that’s what they’re stuck with. It’s going to be hard to watch if they don’t love one of these rookies in the 1st round and try to sell a bottom tier FA as the only solution. It’s going to make the tone deaf incident of Wright being surprised about the fan backlash over the ST ceremony look tame in comparison. 

I dont care if they love them or not. IMO they have to take one. They cant go into season 3 with nothing at QB to be excited about. Its incomprehensible that a Staff in 2022 takes 3 years and still doesnt have a possible answer at QB. I still dont think they understand the position what so ever.

[Conn]

17 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

You know what I can see....Malik Willis sitting there at #11 and the Commanders phone ringing. 

"Hi, this is the Steelers, we'll offer you are 1st and 2nd this year plus a 1st next year for your pick right now".

Done.

Steelers take Malik Willis at #11 overall.

Washington gets the #20 overall pick plus Pittsburgh's 2nd rounder and 2023 1st round.

Steelers get Washington's #11 overall and a 6th round in 2023.

The Steelers are said to be hot on Willis.

This would be fine because at least then we’d know where this FO’s evaluation on him lies either way. We’d know they had a shot at a guy with those tools and explicitly passed for a trade down, and that’s valuable information. What’s more likely is that the Steelers or whoever would trade in front of us rather than risk us taking him (or insert whatever QB here) due to our glaring need at QB, and that would be infuriating because then we’d never know if our FO had “their guy” in mind or not. We’d know they didn’t think he was worth trading up for, I guess. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Conn

[Zim489]

22 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

TH will be better after learning from his experience as a starting QB in the NFL. He'll clean up some of his erratic throws and make better decisions and maybe come back an even stronger QB.

Enough with the taylor love dude. Doesnt matter how much he improves because he can never be elite so any improvement is irrelevant. He will always be a middle at best which is a far reach from where he is now which is barely NFL quality.

18 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

You know what I can see....Malik Willis sitting there at #11 and the Commanders phone ringing. 

"Hi, this is the Steelers, we'll offer you are 1st and 2nd this year plus a 1st next year for your pick right now".

Done.

Steelers take Malik Willis at #11 overall.

Washington gets the #20 overall pick plus Pittsburgh's 2nd rounder and 2023 1st round.

Steelers get Washington's #11 overall and a 6th round in 2023.

The Steelers are said to be hot on Willis.

And if they pass up Malik themselves this staff in place is full of morons. 

[RWJ]

I've resided myself to the fact that we will have some kind of clue or clues who we will sign when we hear something from Keim or Standig at QB and for other FAs.  

[MartinC]

49 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

If we draft Pickett he could probably play rite now?

 

I think the only way we take a QB at #11 is if its Pickett and yes he could play from day 1. But I think thats very much plan C, probably because we don't expect him ti be still there at 11. It seems that plan A is Wilson, plan B is a free agent like Trubisky/Marriota/Winston with a rookie later in the draft and plan C is a first round draft pick..

 

Typically if you get to plan C in pretty much any circumstance things have not gone well.

[Zim489]

34 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I agree though, punting until next year could be a better avenue than some of the other choices we might make.

The worry here is that we can essentially count right now on 3 teams picking in the top 10 at worst with 2 in the top 5 needing QBs. Detroit and Houston. I can easily see 2-3 more in the Saints Giants and panthers. Those teams likely wont be picking QBs this year and would absolutely take the better QB options likely to be available next year. We will also likely be drafting from a worse draft spot easier with an easier schedule picking up a win or 2 or at worst case scenario get the 7th seed in the playoffs to lose like 38-13. 

 

So Ron and co would enter the 2023 offseason in total desperation mode entering his 4th year of a 5 year deal. Knowing he wont be coaching on a lame duck contract we have a staff that is unafraid of giving up future assets because there is no negative to missing other than being fired. So you have a guy willing to give up the farm for maybe the 3rd or 4th option to trade into the top 5 giving up a RG3 level trade in his last possible year.

 

If said Rookie doesnt work out or the team as a whole isnt good Ron is undeserving of a contract extension and you have no made the position the worst opening in the the 2024 offseason. The new staff is now locked in to the previous staffs QB pick and no assets in the upcoming draft to make the team better. Because of that the next staff is already starting behind the 8 ball unlikely to make out of the hole the previous staff made. So were looking at 2029 before the entire thing stabilizes again.

 

The entirety of the 2020s for this franchise is crumbled because Ron won one too many games in the 2020 season making us draft 19th instead of 9th by winning one of the worst football games I have ever seen in week 17 vs an outright Eagles team tanking. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Zim489

[Redskins 2021]

It sounds like Cleveland like everyone else want a vet. I think they would trade Mayfield. I guess I was reading texans may have interest.

 

Would Watson be willing to play for Cleveland? 

[Zim489]

15 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

The more I think about it this would be a great move for us...get the Steelers 2023 1st, coupled with our own and we're in great shape to get a better rookie QB coming out next year. If a team like Pittsburgh is that in love with Willis and wiling to move up to our spot to get him we should do it. 

And less sense it makes. A great franchise like the Steelers is willing to give up that capital for a QB. 

WHY IN THE **** WOULDNT WE JUST TAKE THE GUY THAN? It should be a big ringing alarm they are willing to give up those picks for Willis. 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

I think the only way we take a QB at #11 is if its Pickett and yes he could play from day 1. But I think thats very much plan B, probably because we don't expect him ti be still there at 11. It seems that plan A is Wilson, plan B is a free agent like Trubisky/Marriota/Winston with a rookie later in the draft and plan C is a first round draft pick..

 

Typically if you get to plan C in pretty much any circumstance things have not gone well.

Yep, I'm just gonna sit back and let Keim/Standig/Schefter and Rapoport tweet it out and then we'll know.  

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

TH isn't even a backup?   He's a QB3 huh?   Did he say no to an autograph?   There has to be something to your TH hate.    It's can't be about his actual skills and performance.

QB1 Trubisky

QB2 Rookie

QB3 Taylor Ham Sandwich.

 

It's not personal. It's accurate. 

[HigSkin]

FWIW - 

 

 

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

QB1 Trubisky

QB2 Rookie

QB3 Taylor Ham Sandwich.

 

It's not personal. It's accurate. 

 

If we sign someone like Trubisky as QB1, Heinicke will be the backup/QB2. The rookie in that scenario will be later in the draft and QB3 with a view to being the backup when Taylors contract runs out after next season. 

 

Heinicke is good backup - knows the system, has starting experience and can get you through a few games competitively if the starter goes down.

[Koolblue13]

I wonder what the hell happened to Allen.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

 

[Zim489]

 

[Redskins 2021]

5 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

We are going to have to fight for a guy we don't want. If we don't get Watson the team that does will probably trade there starting Qb to us. Texans will go with Mills this year.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd much prefer Mariota.  I don't see Trubisky as a disaster because I like his athleticm. 

 

I hate to accuse a Qb for being dumb, I don't think Trubisky is dumb but most QBs come off smart in some fashion or form.  I don't get that vibe with Trubisky.  

 

A.  His wonderlic score is almost 50% lower than Fitz and Alex Smith.  Not a disaster score but certainly not hot. 

 

B. His coach has said Trubisky is "uncoachable" and said that to the whole team.  I know to some is all on Nagy but some might recall Nagy was touted at the beginning of his tenure as being an offensive wiz.  It didn't end well for him but its not like everyone saw him as a buffoon.  Andy Reid just rehired him as his QB coach.  I doubt Reid wants him coaching his QBs because he's some buffoon who doesn't understand QBs.

 

C.  Trubisky by his own admission has struggled to read defenses.

 

D.  His top WR when describing the difference between Trubisky and Foles is Foles is really active on the line of scrimmage readjusting the offense to what the defense is showing -- implying that's not really Trubisky's thing.

 

E.  Peyton Manning in his Qb school talked about how Trubisky isn't smart as to how he sells defenses as to play action -- he telegraphs what he's about to do. 

 

F.  I've watched a bunch of his interviews.  One of the least impressive interviews I've watched among QBs in my lifetime.  He comes off as a really nice guy so I buy that part of what people say about him.  But he comes off to me like a stereotypical jock in interviews.   It's like you are interviewing name that random O lineman.  I am used to listening to QBs come off a bit erudite.  Trubisky oddly to me doesn't come off like that at all.  He comes off like a regular dude that would be fun having a beer with.  But he doesn't come off to me as a dude that is adept at dissecting complex defenses.  

 

 

 

That below from Chris Simms

 

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/former-qb-says-mitch-trubisky-may-not-be-smart-enough/

 

He claims that Trubisky, for all his physical gifts, may not quite have the mental acuity to handle such a diverse and complex offense like the one head coach Matt Nagy wants to run.

“THIS IS ONE THING I’VE BEEN TOLD BEHIND THE SCENES FROM A NUMBER OF PEOPLE. MATT NAGY KIND OF SAYS THIS IN HIS CRYPTIC COACH LANGUAGE…AND IF YOU REALLY LISTEN TO HIM, HE CAN’T PUT IN HIS FULL ARRAY OF OFFENSE OR, ‘I GOT TO PULL BACK AND MAKE THINGS SIMPLER ON OFFENSE.’ I THINK IT IS TRUE. I’VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE AROUND THE NFL THAT IS AN ISSUE WITH TRUBISKY. YOU JUST CAN’T DUMP HUGE AMOUNTS OF INVENTORY ON HIM. HE’S NOT AT THAT STAGE YET.

HEY IT IS YEAR 3, IT’S HIS SECOND OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR BUT I DON’T KNOW. MAYBE HE’S NOT SMART ENOUGH TO TAKE IN ALL OF THE OFFENSE.”

 

 

 

Thanks.  I'm now firmly of the mind that Trubisky is not an option and off the table.

 

If Pickett can guarantee us 5 years of league average QB play at mid-1st round rookie salary.  Maybe that's what makes the most sense.

 

League average > whatever we've had for years now.

 

Gimme high ceiling and start now?

[Zim489]

8 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

League average < whatever we've had for years now.

Fixed it for you. League average is the worst place you can be 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

I’m not convinced either way on the TH vs Trubisky debate (though I think the staff should and would give the edge to Trubisky due in large part to the difference in arm strength).  With that said, obviously there’s more to the position than arm strength (and accuracy).  So if Heinicke reads defenses better, does a better job putting mistakes behind him, plays better in higher pressure situations, etc, that stuff could easily trump the distinct throwing velocity/distance advantage Trubisky has, IMO.

 

I can’t say I’m excited in the least by the prospect of bringing Trubisky in.  The negative reports/articles about reading defenses, accuracy and decision-making issues, etc are brutal.  On the flip side, there are a few things that intrigue me (purely through the lens of him as a stopgap) - his athleticism, the reports out of Buffalo about him learning to play more freely and not be so concerned about making mistakes, and his sophomore year in the league - his 71 QBR would have lead the league in 2021.

 

 

I’m not excited about bringing Trubisky in either.  But I’d take him over Heineke all day every day.  Primarily due to arm strength, but I don’t see any other areas where Heineke ranks higher either.  Both leave you scratching your head as to what they are seeing and accuracy.  Neither are long term answers but the ceiling for Trubisky is undoubtedly higher than Heineke and while I’m sure the Hive would disagree, there’s no chance Trubisky’s floor is lower than TH.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

I believe we will land Trubisky and will likely overpay to get him both in money and years. QB's are in such high demand that I can see us giving MT something like 3 years with 25 mil guaranteed and tons of incentives built in to take it even higher. Maybe he gets an opt out in there after one season too? His agent will see to it that he markets him well and will use the interested teams against each other to drive up the price. Being desperate, we will pay the most for him in many ways because we can afford to do it. 

I also think MT will be interested in coming here because of the opportunity, the roster and the head coach. Just my opinion. 

Honestly, that's not an overpayment for a good backup QB.  I doubt it's $25 million guaranteed, though.  $10m is the going rate for "bridge" QB.  Dalton and Fitzy both got $10M for "Bridge" QB deals. 

 

I think that's what you're looking at for Mitch. The thing is, I think Mitch is going to want a 1 or 2 year deal, assuming he thinks he will be able to play. If he can play, and he thinks he doesn't suck (which, I'm going to assume he doesn't think he sucks as much as we all do), then he'll think if he comes here, plays well, he would hit the FA market again and be able to capitalize on that.  

 

I could see a 2 year deal for $22M, with $15M guaranteed, essentially the first year.  If he completely stinks up the joint, then the team can get out of it easily.  If he's great, bonus.  If he's just a backup, you've overpaid a bit, but honestly not that much.

 

I still don't want Mitch.  I would prefer Marcus.  But I really don't care.  I'd be much more interested in the rookie they draft.