The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That would suck

Damn right, that’s would be awful.

[RWJ]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thanks, I am looking forward to listening to it.  Love hearing Nagy's takes on players he had during the Senior Bowl.

As time continues on, I am thinking that Ridder/Willis might be our rookie QB target.  Just a hunch.  Again, connections with RR and Mayhew.  

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

If you listen to JP, Pete Hailey and Mitch Tischlers podcast from yesterday, I’m not the only one that doesn’t believe any rumors that teams would trade for him before his legal issues are settled. JP Finlay also doesn’t buy it. So im not alone in my skepticism on those rumors at all. 

 

Listening to the scuttlebutt on this, seems like the reports are mixed on whether a team would trade for Watson before the legal issues are settled, with more saying they want those issues settled first.  Russini said today she heard some teams would do it before the legal situation is settled if I heard her right.

 

If you listened to that podcast, you heard that Finlay said talking with people close to the team, they are interested in Watson.  Keim and Standig have hinted the same thing but they haven't made the point in a heavy handed way.

8 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Fun little hypothetical trade proposal to acquiring Wilson

 

 

 

Life would be sweet.  It might save this fanbase at least temporary.  We actually might become a postseason threat for the first time in 30 years.  But I dont expect us to get that lucky. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

"5 to 7 assets, including three first rounders" is what you are willing to give up for this?

 

1060/1544 - 68.7% completion - 100 total touchdowns - 37 turnovers - 104.7 passer rating - 8.6 AY/A - 7-19 record against winning teams

 

1028/1521 - 67.6% completion - 97 total touchdowns - 36 turnovers - 105 passer rating - 8.4 AY/A - 5-16 record against winning teams

 

The first quarterback is Deshaun Watson's statistics in his last 47 starts.  The second is Kirk Cousins in his last 47 starts.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

Keim just kind of reiterated the QB stuff you've already mentioned but he did say, "cause for pause" on JimmyG related to injury history/contract requirements and Washington hasn't shown much interest in Winston.

 

 

Just to add, Keim has mentioned in previous podcasts and I mentioned it here at that the time -- there is limit to what they'd be willing to give up for Jimmy G both as for trade capital and money. 

[HigSkin]

I don't care much for Florio but when it comes to legal stuff, he's got that knowledge.  He references what happened to big Ben back in 2010 who wasn't prosecuted but got suspended for 6 games reduced to 4 games by the NFL.

 

These are the 3 things that could happen with Watson:

 

The league’s possible decisions regarding Watson hinge largely on the criminal side of the case. If he’s indicted on one of more felony charges, for example, placement on paid leave becomes a virtual certainty. If he’s indicted on one or more misdemeanor charges, paid leave is possible but less likely. If he’s not charged at all, the league then will have to decide whether to impose punishment for the behavior that resulted in the criminal complaints, before the 22 civil cases are resolved.

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by HigSkin

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Life would be sweet.  It might save this fanbase at least temporary.  We actually might become a postseason threat for the first time in 30 years.  But I dont expect us to get that lucky. 

SIP, you would give up 1,1,1,2 and Payne for Wilson ?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

SIP, you would give up 1,1,1,2 and Payne for Wilson ?

It read to me like the 2nd would come from Houston, we would be giving up 1,1,1 and Payne.

 

And yes, I would barring we don't have to also pay Russ $50MM/yr in a very player friendly deal.  Payne is gone anyways.  Our 1st rounder loses value moving forward if we are quarterbacked by Russell.  Desperate times = desperate measures.  If we want out of QB purgatory, you have to be willing to pay.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

SIP, you would give up 1,1,1,2 and Payne for Wilson ?

I like how Seattle goes from Russell Wilson to Deshaun Watson and gains a 2nd round pick. That trade makes almost no sense.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

SIP, you would give up 1,1,1,2 and Payne for Wilson ?

 

I'd give it up in 2 seconds.  No brainer deal would be an understatement from my mindset. 

 

I love the draft as much as anyone.  But wanting to hang on to picks to get the next Daron Payne like player three years in a row while gives some temporary joy on draft day and makes for some fun fantasizing about glory -- its just that IMO a fantasy.  This isn't baseball.  This is football -- the teams that are consistently in the playoffs are the ones with top 10 QBs. 

 

The teams that are consistently not in the playoffs are the ones without top 10 QBs.  Simple as that. Russell Wilson is one of those unicorns that a team like this hasn't landed IMO since Sonny J --  I'll put money that dudes like Desmond Ridder won't become the next Russell Wilson.

 

Judging from what reporters are saying the Seahawks though don't want to make a deal like that.

[RWJ]

22 charges let alone one or two is a big NO for me.  Stay away, RR.  

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It read to me like the 2nd would come from Houston, we would be giving up 1,1,1 and Payne.

 

And yes, I would barring we don't have to also pay Russ $50MM/yr in a very player friendly deal.  Payne is gone anyways.  Our 1st rounder loses value moving forward if we are quarterbacked by Russell.  Desperate times = desperate measures.  If we want out of QB purgatory, you have to be willing to pay.

No I think the first line is what WSH is sending.

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd give it up in 2 seconds.  No brainer deal would be an understatement from my mindset. 

I think it’s an over the top trade, on balance, but yep agree on where you are coming from. A draft pick QB is doing nothing for Rivera’s career here. 

[shemp nixon]

4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I like how Seattle goes from Russell Wilson to Deshaun Watson and gains a 2nd round pick. That trade makes almost no sense.

I could see the Seahawks making a deal with the Eagles. Get 3 ones and Hurts to plug in at QB, maybe flip the 3 ones for Watson when he's cleared.

[Redskins 2021]

Hope for Carr after a Rodgers trade would be best Value 

[Skinsinparadise]

49 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

 

I think it’s an over the top trade, on balance, but yep agree on where you are coming from. A draft pick QB is doing nothing for Rivera’s career here. 

 

Judging by what reporters are saying even for the "over the top" prices that it would take to land Wilson or Rodgers it would be rejected by their teams.  The only thing that supposedly would force a trade would be those players insisting on it.  Why would these teams turn down "over the top" offers?  As what some of their reporters have said on that front is that they don't want to be in the "have not" club at QB -- it's a miserable place to be.

 

As for us, lets say our drafts are bust free, and we can draft a player on par with Daron Payne three years in a row, if so it won't help us even sniff a championship.  We likely just end up on the merry go round we are on which is join the postseason every 4 years and got knocked out in the first round.  

 

Some put this all on Rivera.  But to me the only thing I can put on Rivera is should he have skipped on Chase Young to build draft capital to get Justin Fields?  It's really the only concrete thing I can see people making an argument against him about.  And if Fields becomes the next Watson, etc then he did miss out on an opportunity.  But otherwise, this issue has predated Rivera in a big way.  QB issues has been the hallmark of this team going way to back to the early 90s.

 

Chris Ballard is considered by some the best GM in the game.  The Colts have 7 pro bowlers.  They are loaded.  Yet if they move on from Wentz, they'd have 5 different QBs in his 5 years and his job might end up in jeopardy.  Browns are loaded, yet missed the post season.  As Jay Gruden among others have said if you don't have that QB, you get fired. 

 

But yeah in short, I am tired of being one of the have not teams and just hope the same old approach will just bring better luck. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Mrshadow008]

44 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

"5 to 7 assets, including three first rounders" is what you are willing to give up for this?

 

1060/1544 - 68.7% completion - 100 total touchdowns - 37 turnovers - 104.7 passer rating - 8.6 AY/A - 7-19 record against winning teams

 

1028/1521 - 67.6% completion - 97 total touchdowns - 36 turnovers - 105 passer rating - 8.4 AY/A - 5-16 record against winning teams

 

The first quarterback is Deshaun Watson's statistics in his last 47 starts.  The second is Kirk Cousins in his last 47 starts.  

One of those qbs has 2 10 win seasons in three years as a full time starter. The other has 1 10 win season with 7 years as a starter. One has 1 playoff win in three years as a full time starter. One is known for bonehead backbreaking plays at the worst possible time one isn’t. One was considered a borderline top 5 qb the other has never been considered that. One is 26 and probably still ascending the other is 33 and at the tail end of their very peak. They are not even remotely close to the same.

[Est.1974]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But to me the only thing I can put on Rivera is should he have skipped on Chase Young

That’s likely the moment that defines his tenure here IF it ends in failure...as failure will only come by not getting a credible QB this offseason.

 

However you slice it, Rivera has no choice but to hit a home run at QB in the next 2 months.

[Ball Security]

Saw something that Irsay would really like to trade for Wilson.  Not sure if Wilson would wave his no trade clause for Indy, but I’m sure Seattle look like for him to go to the AFC if moved and they’d get a QB back.

[mistertim]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Judging by what reporters are saying even for the "over the top" prices that it would take to land Wilson or Rodgers it would be rejected by their teams.  The only thing that supposedly would force a trade would be those players insisting on it.  Why would these teams turn down "over the top" offers?  As what some of their reporters have said on that front is they don't want to be in the "have not" club at QB -- it's a miserable place to be.

 

Yeah I think this is something else that's getting a bit overlooked. No team in their right mind is going to get rid of a future HoF QB unless they feel like they have to. Meaning only if the guy demands a trade. At times we seem to be assuming that these guys will be available and their teams will just serve them up if someone offers them enough picks.

 

We're not the only ones who know that an elite QB is worth his weight in gold, and certainly worth more than what you'd probably get out of 3 1st round picks at other positions.

 

They're not going to let these guys go unless they either have no choice (he refuses to play for them anymore ala Watson) or they already have their next QB on the roster, he's part of the trade, or they're guaranteed to get a guy they love in the draft with your pick.

 

Those 3 shiny new 1st round picks aren't going to do much for them without a QB. They know it just as well as Rivera or anyone else does.

Edited February 25, 2022 by mistertim

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

The Bills and Josh Allen are the exception for not teaching accuracy. And I think that the Allen example is going to make a lot of people take risks and make mistakes. 
 

Regardless of how much anybody likes it, I think Deshaun Watson is our one realistic shot at a big upgrade this season. 

Random response and not entirely on topic lol:

He’s still average to below in terms of accuracy.  His breakout seems more about confidence, weapons, forward thinking coaching staff, and him running/extending with free reign. Doesn’t even read the field all that well in my limited games of watching him the last two seasons. 
 

He represents the modern day QB with elite skills that is allowed to play backyard football whenever he chooses, providing many opportunities for his attributes to dominate games. I’d put Mahomes in this category as well. Herbert is right in the middle and my favorite to soon rise to the top—he carves up a defense more from the pocket than the others.  

 

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

"5 to 7 assets, including three first rounders" is what you are willing to give up for this?

 

1060/1544 - 68.7% completion - 100 total touchdowns - 37 turnovers - 104.7 passer rating - 8.6 AY/A - 7-19 record against winning teams

 

1028/1521 - 67.6% completion - 97 total touchdowns - 36 turnovers - 105 passer rating - 8.4 AY/A - 5-16 record against winning teams

 

The first quarterback is Deshaun Watson's statistics in his last 47 starts.  The second is Kirk Cousins in his last 47 starts.  

hahahahhaha

 

Still hanging on. Washington made the right move, this reality is becoming more and more clear as the season pile up. The discussion about not getting assets in return I get to some degree. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I think this is something else that's getting a bit overlooked. No team in their right mind is going to get rid of a future HoF QB unless they feel like they have to. Meaning only if the guy demands a trade. At times we seem to be assuming that these guys will be available and their teams will just serve them up if someone offers them enough picks.

 

We're not the only ones who know that a QB is worth his weight in gold, and certainly worth more than what you'd probably get out of 3 1st round picks at other positions.

 

They're not going to let these guys go unless they either have no choice (he refuses to play for them anymore ala Watson) or they already have their next QB on the roster, he's part of the trade, or they're guaranteed to get a guy they love in the draft with your pick.

 

Those 3 shiny new 1st round picks aren't going to do much for them without a QB. They know it just as well as Rivera or anyone else does.

 

For those have said in recent months that they'd rather the Giants don't use their two top picks in the draft on players and instead trade for Wilson and ditto the Eagles -- I just don't buy they believe its a QB driven league or if they do buy it -- its not that intensly or simply think Wilson sucks?    For example I don't love the idea of the Giants getting lets say Burks and Cross in the same draft but that intimidates me a lot less than swapping Daniel Jones with Russell Wilson.

 

You can give me any configuation of our first round draft picks.  And I'll pretend that you can't miss in the first round -- there are no Doctson, Haskins type picks.  I admit Jamin Davis right now doesn't look hot either.  Lets pretend no one misses in the first round.  You can give me any of our successful three first round picks out of order and I'd still take a franchise QB over them.  

 

If people are going to still argue that you can win without a QB -- just look at the Browns and Colts, those teams are beyond stacked.  Heck Jonathan Taylor had an Eric Dickerson type of season.  Still they didn't even make the playoffs.  Yeah you can get lucky if all the stars align one time for one season but it doesn't last. 

 

Article today from the Athletic about the Colts

 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[oraphus]

19 hours ago, MrJL said:

Sweat was also a first rounder, Chase Young was DROY, I don't call first rounders a bust after one year unless there was some sort of disaster with them, like them being cut or buried on the bottom of the bench

whether Young is a complete bust is still undetermined... but for a #2 overall pic he has definitely underperformed so far. Compare his stats to the Bosas who he was widely compared against. He was a Droy against a weak schedule and bunch of back up QBs by the way.

[Redskins 2021]

50 million a year for Rodgers what would we have to do to get him under the cap?

[HigSkin]

deleted post...

Edited February 25, 2022 by HigSkin

[Est.1974]

23 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

50 million a year for Rodgers what would we have to do to get him under the cap?

Not as much as GB will