The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Redskins 2021]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Willis is an intriguing prospect, but he's also super raw. He's nowhere near the prospect that a guy like Mahomes was, who fell to 10 because he was considered somewhat raw, and who KC gave up a bunch to move up for. I'd be pretty surprised if any team gave up a ton to move up for Willis. He's just not that kind of prospect. 

 

And Arizona's owner being pissed doesn't mean they're suddenly going to get rid of their marquee quarterback. That would make zero sense and would basically be them shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Again, I think the only way Murray leaves Arizona is if he flat out refuses to play for them.

Price of Qb are up Lions got a ton of picks maybe they give up 32 and Rams first next year. Lions will stink and this is Goff last year. They easily could move up for Willis.

 

If we want to make this huge deal for a vet these are the things we have to do these things. We need to prepare this year for second chance Qb. It may not matter because I think the front office wants JimmyG. I would sign Jamies Winston or Wentz two year deal. If it does not work out move on they are FA costs nothing. We need picks to get the type of Qb everyone wants.

 

Murray fits Kingsbury system he will want to follow him. A gm may take the picks. I think Arizona will be good next year so it will not matter.

 

 

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

He's a UFA if I'm not mistaken. He's a good fit for Terry and Brown's skill sets too. Not trying to convince you one way or the other though. He's not your cup of tea I get it.

 I would rather have a 10 win season make playoffs with Jamies get the Wr, MLB and G and be really ready to make a move next year. This is crazy but what if the guy worked out.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

*A bit extra dialogue that can get thrown in with other conversations in the past lol
 

I think Stafford decided to be an asset financially when joining the Rams. He didn’t maximize his earnings last off-season. This was 100% a choice he made.
 

 

 

Stafford had two years left on his contract, he had no choice.  They are talking now about a new contract, I'd put money its not a Brady I'll leave money off the table kind of sacrifice.

 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Mahomes and Allen decided to take a bit less by signing longer term deals than the recent 10 year trend that has seen the QB sign 4 year deals in an attempt to maximize career earnings. As you know, shorter term deals handicap the organization more than a longer term deals. I don’t think it will necessarily become a trend, but when a GOAT does it a certain way it’s bound to influence some.

 

 

Both Mahomes and Allen got over market deals at that given time.  Their big "sacrifice" is grabbing long term security, 150 milion guaranteed for Allen (141 for Mahomes) is an insane amount compared to what QBs typically get.  They make in some years paltry sums like 50 million plus for Josh Allen, and about 60 million one year for Mahomes

 

If you want to think they are making Brady like sacrifices cool.  I don't think its the case, not even a little. 

 

But yeah if the idea of sacrifice means taking longer contracts with mega guaranteed money -- you can lock in plenty of players like that because plenty of players would take the security of that because injuries won't effect their bottom line and that's mostly a novel thing in the NFL.  

Edited February 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

24 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

If our dreams come true and Dan Snyder is forced out later this year; it honestly doesn't matter what we do at QB.  If we can get a new owner before the end of the year; everyone is gone, including Ron. That new owner moves heaven and earth to get one of the Top 23 Draft QBs.

 

Even if the new owner takes over later in 23 but before the 23 draft; they will move heaven and earth to get one of the Top 23 Draft QBs and Ron would be in prove it year.

 

So, if we see this offseason real moves to remove Dan as owner; the QB we end up with in 22 won't really matter. 

 

 

This could have been posted in the Owners thread instead. Since it wasn't. I will enlighten you by saying there is a reason Dan made his Wife the co-CEO. Even if Dan gets kicked out  his wife would still own the team and therefore Dan still in the background making decisions for his wife. 

[Riggo-toni]

Like it or not, we are getting Wentz. We always trade for ex-Philthy redhead QBs.

[kingdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Like it or not, we are getting Wentz. We always trade for ex-Philthy redhead QBs.

Would Wentz be better than what we have now? Would he be better than Trubisky or Garrapolo? Would he be in play for us if the money was right AND we drafted a young QB in round 1 or 2?

What is the primary thing driving Wentz out of Indy?

If Wentz is better than what we have now, we get him for basically nothing, do we take a flier? I don't want him based on the things I've heard about him but would he help us given the state of our QB situation? These are some serious questions that we need to look into if he can be had without giving up the farm.

[Cooleyfan1993]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

So, what you are saying is that we had the most games played against a team coming off a bye or half bye on top of having the leagues most difficult schedule... and that wasn't a hardship.

If 2 other teams had the same amount of games against teams coming off of a half bye week, that means we were tied for the most. People act as if it’s just us that that happens to. My point is it’s not. 
 

and for amount of games against teams coming off of a full bye week, our team didn’t lead in that category. I dont remember which team i said it was, but it wasn’t ours, as we only had 1. 

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think Rivera made two glaring errors at QB. One I write off as circumstantial. The second I do think he screwed up.

 

1) Giving Haskins a shot. I was “okay” with giving him a shot based on his play at the end of the season but would have preferred we look elsewhere because… well… Dwayne Haskins. But myself, among others, figured Rivera have Dan a promise he’d at the very least give Dwayne a chance. He did that. It was a mistake but one that probably couldn’t have been avoided. I do wish we had a better option on roster prior to the impending skid and fail.

 

2) Not trading up for Fields or Jones. Say what you want about either of them but Fields would have generated excitement and he’d be a year in at this point. Jones would have been steady and been one of those QBs you can win with but not because of immediately. This one is the one that burns me.

 

 

Year 1 was mistake, not in giving Haskins a chance. No coach would be hired without giving Haskins a chance. What the mistake was; Ron didn't bring someone in to compete for the job.

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

If the Colts release Wentz we shouldn't hesitate. If he can get over this mental block he is a top 10 qb.  Don't forget that he was the mpv favorite before he got hurt in 2018 (I believe it was that season). The whole Foles winning the super bowl and drafting Hurtz really messed with Wentz.  But he is a giant step above every qb in this draft. 

Wentz is a cancer.  He couldn't mentally handle that Foles was on the team, after Foles took the Eagles to a title couldn't deal with it. Especially, when the next year he got injured again and Foles filled in again. Then he caused problems his final year in Philly and couldn't deal with Hurts being on the roster.  Then he goes to Indy, where he's reunited with the OC that was there when he had his best season.  Already, the Colts are ready to move on.  That's a red flag.   No.

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Willis is an intriguing prospect, but he's also super raw. He's nowhere near the prospect that a guy like Mahomes was, who fell to 10 because he was considered somewhat raw, and who KC gave up a bunch to move up for. I'd be pretty surprised if any team gave up a ton to move up for Willis. He's just not that kind of prospect. 

 

And Arizona's owner being pissed doesn't mean they're suddenly going to get rid of their marquee quarterback. That would make zero sense and would basically be them shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Again, I think the only way Murray leaves Arizona is if he flat out refuses to play for them.

Murray leaves Arizona, he's going to baseball. Eventually, he could make more in baseball than an entire nfl career.

[Redskins 2021]

2 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Wentz is a cancer.  He couldn't mentally handle that Foles was on the team, after Foles took the Eagles to a title couldn't deal with it. Especially, when the next year he got injured again and Foles filled in again. Then he caused problems his final year in Philly and couldn't deal with Hurts being on the roster.  Then he goes to Indy, where he's reunited with the OC that was there when he had his best season.  Already, the Colts are ready to move on.  That's a red flag.   No.

Murray leaves Arizona, he's going to baseball. Eventually, he could make more in baseball than an entire nfl career.

 That is an option for Murray.  I don't think he would want to play for anybody but Kingsbury. I think AZ will work out for both of them next year but I could also see them as a package deal to another nfl team. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[kingdaddy]

14 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Wentz is a cancer.  He couldn't mentally handle that Foles was on the team, after Foles took the Eagles to a title couldn't deal with it. Especially, when the next year he got injured again and Foles filled in again. Then he caused problems his final year in Philly and couldn't deal with Hurts being on the roster.  Then he goes to Indy, where he's reunited with the OC that was there when he had his best season.  Already, the Colts are ready to move on.  That's a red flag.   No.

Murray leaves Arizona, he's going to baseball. Eventually, he could make more in baseball than an entire nfl career.

You're probably right....if baseball ever plays again. That sport is about as greedy as it gets. 

[KDawg]

54 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Year 1 was mistake, not in giving Haskins a chance. No coach would be hired without giving Haskins a chance. What the mistake was; Ron didn't bring someone in to compete for the job.

I said that. So mmhmm.

[kingdaddy]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I said that. So mmhmm.

Ron admitted that as a mistake...said he wished he'd made it a competition. 

Signing Fitz was a mistake too...the guy never looked good from jump street, old and immobile. And I wanted Fitz, thought we were ready to win with a great defense. WRONG. 

 

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Year 1 was mistake, not in giving Haskins a chance. No coach would be hired without giving Haskins a chance. What the mistake was; Ron didn't bring someone in to compete for the job.

 

year 1 we also had a massive Alex Smith salary and story.  What QB is coming in when you have a 1st round draft pick AND a guy who's going to be shooting for comeback player of the year on the roster at the same time?

[Warhead36]

Hard pass on Wentz. He had a stacked roster in Indy and still stunk when it mattered most.

[Redskins 2021]

I was just reading about C Wentz situation on colts message board it is bad. If they release him 28 million dollar cap hit. Trade him 13 million.  They may have to give a draft pick up or something to make another team take on Wentz. 

 

It could be like the Osweiller trade from year ago. When browns traded a 6th round pick and got Osweiller and a second round pick back.

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Riggo-toni]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Would Wentz be better than what we have now? 

It doesn't matter if he's better than what we have now - he's a ginger who played for the Eagirls, which means we will end up with him, just as surely as his middle name is Adolphus.

[Jericho]

3 hours ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Price of Qb are up Lions got a ton of picks maybe they give up 32 and Rams first next year. Lions will stink and this is Goff last year. They easily could move up for Willis.

 

I think the problem is that while prices are going up, returns are not. So teams are paying more for less return. The key seems to be to not make the same mistake

[CapsSkins]

4 hours ago, VaK9Trainer said:

Wilson has stated he's staying in Seattle so this is a moot point. 

 

Where/when did he say this? I missed it.

[Jericho]

36 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Hard pass on Wentz. He had a stacked roster in Indy and still stunk when it mattered most.

 

It's weird Wentz is even in the conversation. Two fairly well run franchises have abandoned ship on him in the last year+. One of which gave up good draft capital to acquire him. Unless he's basically free and there's an Option 1A/B to him, it seems to be pointless

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Murray leaves Arizona, he's going to baseball. Eventually, he could make more in baseball than an entire nfl career.

 

While Murray playing baseball is technically possible, it has almost zero chance of actually happening. It's not like Murray is just going to slot into the majors. No draft picks do that. He's also 24 and hasn't played the sport at any competitive level in nearly 4 years. So he can go to Single A ball and play in Lansing or Stockton with the chance that in 3-4 years he might make the majors and then in another 6 years might be paid big money if he's one of the few people you turn out to be really good. Or, you know, get paid huge money in the NFL right now.

[VirginiaVibes]

35 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Where/when did he say this? I missed it.

 

I am not sure if this is what they were talking about or not

 

 

[wit33]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Stafford had two years left on his contract, he had no choice.  They are talking now about a new contract, I'd put money its not a Brady I'll leave money off the table kind of sacrifice.

 

I’ll put money that he doesn’t reset the QB market and maximize the amount he could make. 
 

I do not think any one will go to the extreme that Brady did throughout his career, please stop with that. Do I feel players, coaches, and FOs recognize Brady taking less money assisted him greatly in becoming the GOAT and that might have influence on some QBs in the future… sure. 

 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Both Mahomes and Allen got over market deals at that given time.  Their big "sacrifice" is grabbing long term security, 150 milion guaranteed for Allen (141 for Mahomes) is an insane amount compared to what QBs typically get.  They make in some years paltry sums like 50 million plus for Josh Allen,

 

 

It appears you feel they maximized their earning potential, I disagree and there’s reading material from writers and agents who disagree with you. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you want to think they are making Brady like sacrifices cool.  I don't think its the case, not even a little. 
 

 

Nope, but they have chosen not to maximize their earning potential. 
 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But yeah if the idea of sacrifice means taking longer contracts with mega guaranteed money -- you can lock in plenty of players like that because plenty of players would take the security of that because injuries won't effect their bottom line and that's mostly a novel thing in the NFL.  

 

This is incorrect, QBs in recent years have declined to sign deals longer than 3-4 years. I’m not talking about players at other positions, this is only for the QB. 

 

Name another QB in last 5-6 years that has signed a deal longer than 4 years? QBs have been choosing to maximize their earning potential by signing shorter contracts to get back to leveraging their situation. Mahomes and Allen bucked this recent trend and reverted back to how things were 10 years ago and beyond. I’m not saying they’re taking Brady type money, they’re still young, its generational wealth money making time. Even Brady signed a nice extension after his rookie deal. 
 

Will be interesting to see how their teams do while they earn 15-20% of the cap, both have been financial assets to the extreme up to this point. Their franchises created a 6 year window to start both their careers in an attempt to get a title before having to foot the bill and get creative with the cap. It makes sense their teams will drop off talent wise when they go from making 3-5% of the cap to 15-20%, let’s see how much they can cover up. On another not, the average to above QBs the returns after signing a big deal are disgustingly bad. Dak Prescott or a Kirk Cousins would represent the other side, chose to maximize earnings— absolutely nothing wrong with it. 
 

I’m not saying any of it is wrong (it’s discussion I enjoy), the business is the business when it comes to the elite guys, in my opinion. Paying the Average to good is a whole another story that the NFL has gotten wrong over the last 10 years. 
 

  

Edited February 16, 2022 by wit33

[shemp nixon]

3 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

Like it or not, we are getting Wentz. We always trade for ex-Philthy redhead QBs.

Well, considering the last redhead philly QB was Sonny J, I'd say that worked out ok for us.

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

This could have been posted in the Owners thread instead. Since it wasn't. I will enlighten you by saying there is a reason Dan made his Wife the co-CEO. Even if Dan gets kicked out  his wife would still own the team and therefore Dan still in the background making decisions for his wife. 

Both Dan,Tanya, mama Snyder will be forced to sell.

[zCommander]

5 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

Like it or not, we are getting Wentz. We always trade for ex-Philthy redhead QBs.

 

He might actually go to the Steelers, Bucs or the Broncos.