The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[RWJ]

Here's another thing to think about.  RR is a DF minded HC.  I got to put this on Scott Turner and of course Mayhew and Hurney.  

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

I don't think trading up for Fields was possible.  The Giants weren't trading down with us.  I don't see Denver or Carolina trading down (and passing on Horn & Surtain).  Regarding Mac Jones, the Chargers weren't trading down when Slater was there.  Minny was the only trading partner.  Ce could have traded up to Minny (the Jets traded up for AVT).  It would have cost our two 3rd rounders.  In retrospect, we should have done it.  I don't know how the FO felt about Jones to be fair.  Honestly, the worst outcome of last year was not finding a way to get Davis Mills.  

It sure was possible. I said it probably 8 times in the draft thread that didn’t involve Philly or the NYG. We just didn’t want to pay to move ahead of them. 
 

I’m pretty surprised they didn’t take a flier on any QB later in the draft. I don’t know that Mills really moves the needle much, but at least we’d have a young QB that has a bit of potential rostered right now.

[Redskins 2021]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

He won't make us competitive in any real sense. He would probably help us get another couple wins, but we'd still be no closer to actually winning a SB or, more importantly, being a perennial contender.

 

And in 2023 what's the plan to get a "top vet QB" or "franchise rookie"? There's no reason to think the vet FA market will be any better next year and the top QB prospects will almost surely go top 3. If we win 10 games we aren't going to be able to trade up that high without giving up probably 3 1sts, 3 2nds and a couple of top players. 

 There are a few reasons to think it will be easier to get a top vet next year. Seattle or Arizona will probably be in rebuilds, The Ravens have to decide on Lamar Jackson, Watson cases should be done by then, and there are up to four franchise Qbs in next years draft.

 

No one will trade a Qb unless they have a replacement for there Qb. Jacksonville, Jets will be bad this year and will not be picking Qb. It will be expensive but there will be more movement. Weather it's a top vet or franchise rookie.

 

We need to get ammo to make some trades Pittsburgh wants to move up there first round pick next year would do it. Unless we think the answer is in this draft.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Here's another thing to think about.  RR is a DF minded HC.  I got to put this on Scott Turner and of course Mayhew and Hurney.  

Ron makes the decisions. I know we have GMs but Rivera hired them. He may default to them ultimately but make no mistakes, he has the ability to make decisions…

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Ron makes the decisions. I know we have GMs but Rivera hired them. He may default to them ultimately but make no mistakes, he has the ability to make decisions…

Oh, I agree KDawg.  Not big on Mayhew or Hurney and thought we could do better.  My hope is that Eric Stokes, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF PLAYER PERSONNEL will be promoted sooner rather than later, and his voice be heard when it comes to drafting our players.  

[CapsSkins]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think Rivera made two glaring errors at QB. One I write off as circumstantial. The second I do think he screwed up.

 

1) Giving Haskins a shot. I was “okay” with giving him a shot based on his play at the end of the season but would have preferred we look elsewhere because… well… Dwayne Haskins. But myself, among others, figured Rivera have Dan a promise he’d at the very least give Dwayne a chance. He did that. It was a mistake but one that probably couldn’t have been avoided. I do wish we had a better option on roster prior to the impending skid and fail.

 

2) Not trading up for Fields or Jones. Say what you want about either of them but Fields would have generated excitement and he’d be a year in at this point. Jones would have been steady and been one of those QBs you can win with but not because of immediately. This one is the one that burns me.

 

 

 

#1 as you point out was kinda unavoidable.

 

Re: #2, it's worth remembering the plan was supposed to be having Fitzpatrick - he would probably have gotten us to ~10 wins and the playoffs, and potentially could have been coming back this year. The first stroke of bad luck in a remarkably unlucky bad year was Fitz basically ending his career in the 1st half of the 1st game.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

#1 as you point out was kinda unavoidable.

 

Re: #2, it's worth remembering the plan was supposed to be having Fitzpatrick - he would probably have gotten us to ~10 wins and the playoffs, and potentially could have been coming back this year. The first stroke of bad luck in a remarkably unlucky bad year was Fitz basically ending his career in the 1st half of the 1st game.

Difference is that I would have had Fitz and Fields. Fitz was gone after a year anyways. 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 There are a few reasons to think it will be easier to get a top vet next year. Seattle or Arizona will probably be in rebuilds, The Ravens have to decide on Lamar Jackson, Watson cases should be done by then, and there are up to four franchise Qbs in next years draft.

 

No one will trade a Qb unless they have a replacement for there Qb. Jacksonville, Jets will be bad this year and will not be picking Qb. It will be expensive but there will be more movement. Weather it's a top vet or franchise rookie.

 

We need to get ammo to make some trades Pittsburgh wants to move up there first round pick next year would do it. Unless we think the answer is in this draft.

 

Seattle might decide to deal Wilson after next season, sure.

 

Arizona? Why would they be in a rebuild? You think they're going to pick Murry #1 overall and then suddenly decide to cut or trade him after this coming season? Even though he played poorly to end the season, he definitely showed that he's already a legit top 10 QB. He's not going anywhere.

 

Lamar Jackson...so we're going to trade a crapload for a running QB who had 1 great season and has steadily declined since then?

 

The Steelers moving from 20 to 11 isn't going to cost them next year's 1st unless for some reason there's a bidding war on our pick at #11 which is incredibly unlikely to happen.

[kingdaddy]

Does anyone know if the teams ask the prospects if any other teams told them they'd take them in the draft? 

For instance, if we love Corral and we tell him we're gonna take him at #11, can we ask him if any of the other teams told him they'd take him? 

Corral might respond with something like, "well, I want to play for you guys but Carolina already told me they're gonna grab me if I'm there when they pick".

I would think this could happen...

If Corral says another team wants him we'd then work a trade to jump the other team interested in him. Or maybe it all happens through the agents?

[Cooleyfan1993]

6 hours ago, ultravin said:

first is to audit the nfl scheduling committee and make sure it is fair across the board.  washington is always getting screwed playing teams that are fresh off of their byes or thursday games!  very evident last season!

 

It wasn’t “evident” at all last season

 

In the NFL last season, the most amount of games played against teams coming off a TNF game was 3. We had 3, along with the bears, bills, and Steelers. If we had more than 3, then I’d agree the league screwed us. 
 

In the nfl last season, the most amount of games against teams coming off a bye week was 3, which was the ravens, having to face the panthers, bears, and browns. We had two games against teams coming off a bye week, but one of those teams we shared the same bye week with, so really we only had 1, which was the eagles going into the Tuesday night game. So the ravens got screwed in that category. 
 

 

[RWJ]

 

[CapsSkins]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Difference is that I would have had Fitz and Fields. Fitz was gone after a year anyways. 

 

The jury is still out on whether trading up for Fields would have been worth the cost. In retrospect, Mac Jones was the target but IDK how the staff graded him. 

 

I don't think it was always inevitable that Fitz would have been 1 and done. If he could have given you two seasons, you'd have the ammo to be aggressive in the stronger '23 draft. 

 

In any case, it's worth noting Rivera's intention was never to roll with Heinicke all season until he basically had to. 

[Redskins 2021]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Seattle might decide to deal Wilson after next season, sure.

 

Arizona? Why would they be in a rebuild? You think they're going to pick Murry #1 overall and then suddenly decide to cut or trade him after this coming season? Even though he played poorly to end the season, he definitely showed that he's already a legit top 10 QB. He's not going anywhere.

 

Lamar Jackson...so we're going to trade a crapload for a running QB who had 1 great season and has steadily declined since then?

 

The Steelers moving from 20 to 11 isn't going to cost them next year's 1st unless for some reason there's a bidding war on our pick at #11 which is incredibly unlikely to happen.

 Arizona fires there coach they will have to dump Murray and they will bring in new GM if it does not work this year.

 

To move up nine spots it will cost the Steelers alot there first this year maybe a 2nd and 3rd next year. We need to get picks if we want to make a move for this top vet. What did Chicago pay to move up last year?

 

I personally think Jackson is a good player alot of people don't that is fine but we have no idea what they would have to give up to get him next year but ravens have to start paying him next year.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Zim489]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m pretty surprised they didn’t take a flier on any QB later in the draft.

Supposedly Trask was going to be our 3rd round pick if he was there. 

 

/shudder

 

The dude couldnt throw the ball. 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 Arizona fires there coach they will have to dump Murray and they will bring in new GM if it does not work this year.

 

To move up nine spots it will cost the Steelers alot there first this year maybe a 2nd and 3rd next year. We need to get picks if we want to make a move for this top vet.

 

I personally think Jackson is a good player alot of people don't that is fine but we have no idea what they would have to give up to get him next year but ravens have to start paying him next year.

 

The value for the Steelers to move up to 11 from 20 would be a mid 2nd rounder. They're not going to give up a 1st unless there is a bidding war for our pick at 11 and I don't see any way that happens. Usually that would take place if a big QB talent slipped (Mahomes, for example) but that's very unlikely to be the case this draft.

 

Arizona is not going to move on from Murray unless he flat out refuses to play. He's already solidified himself as a top 10 QB. It's not going to happen.

 

Jackson has never proven himself to be more than a good runner. He's a mediocre NFL passer and to excel needs to have an entire offense built around his running ability. Like pretty much every other running QB he had one big year and then petered out after that. I wouldn't give up more than one 1st rounder for him at most.

[Zim489]

22 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Eric Stokes, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF PLAYER PERSONNEL

Another Carolina Panther cast off? 

 

Hard pass. 

[Burgold]

17 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

It wasn’t “evident” at all last season

 

In the NFL last season, the most amount of games played against teams coming off a TNF game was 3. We had 3, along with the bears, bills, and Steelers. If we had more than 3, then I’d agree the league screwed us. 

 

So, what you are saying is that we had the most games played against a team coming off a bye or half bye on top of having the leagues most difficult schedule... and that wasn't a hardship.

[KDawg]

20 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

The jury is still out on whether trading up for Fields would have been worth the cost. In retrospect, Mac Jones was the target but IDK how the staff graded him. 

 

I don't think it was always inevitable that Fitz would have been 1 and done. If he could have given you two seasons, you'd have the ammo to be aggressive in the stronger '23 draft. 

 

In any case, it's worth noting Rivera's intention was never to roll with Heinicke all season until he basically had to. 

Point is we would have tried to address the QB position. By rolling with Fitz and Heinicke you were always one play from Heinicke playing. You go with Fitz, Fields and Heinicke and it’s a different room.

 

Yes, the jury is out on all the rookie QBs. We’ll see. But it would have been nice to have one.

[Redskins 2021]

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The value for the Steelers to move up to 11 from 20 would be a mid 2nd rounder. They're not going to give up a 1st unless there is a bidding war for our pick at 11 and I don't see any way that happens. Usually that would take place if a big QB talent slipped (Mahomes, for example) but that's very unlikely to be the case this draft.

 

Arizona is not going to move on from Murray unless he flat out refuses to play. He's already solidified himself as a top 10 QB. It's not going to happen.

 

Jackson has never proven himself to be more than a good runner. He's a mediocre NFL passer and to excel needs to have an entire offense built around his running ability. Like pretty much every other running QB he had one big year and then petered out after that. I wouldn't give up more than one 1st rounder for him at most.

 The Bears moved up from 20 to 11 to trade with the nyg last year. Nyg got the Bears first this year and fifth this year the exact same move steelers would make with us.

 

It is the same move.

 

Arizona will fire Gm and Coach if they don't improve next year. Murray will be up to new Gm.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[VaK9Trainer]

3 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Rodgers is either staying in GB or going to DEN. Watson is DQ'd. Carr is likely staying in LV.

 

The only top-tier starter we have a chance at getting is Wilson. If Seattle isn't willing to trade him unless they're "blown away" by the offer, then it's time to pay through the nose to get him.

 

We're handicapped by the fact that we can't send a good QB the other way. So we'll need to pay even more than say Philly, who would send Hurts.

 

Three 1's, three 2's, Sweat or Payne, another starter.

 

Does that sound like too much? Well the alternative is Jimmy G or Trubisky. Think about that. 

 

Wilson has stated he's staying in Seattle so this is a moot point. 

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 The Bears moved up from 20 to 11 to trade with the nyg last year. Nyg got the Bears first this year and fifth this year the exact same move steelers would make with us.

 

It is the same move.

 

Arizona will fire Gm and Coach if they don't improve next year. Murray will be up to new Gm.

 

It wasn't necessarily the same move because there were reportedly multiple teams looking to move up to 11 in the 2021 draft, which drove the price up. That's much more likely to happen in a big QB draft when a guy falls (like Fields did) than in a QB class that isn't as loaded with talent. 

 

If the Steelers want to move up to 11 for some reason, they probably won't have much in the way of competition, so we'd probably have to accept a 2nd rounder. But I doubt anyone wants to move up to 11 anyway, unless it's only moving up a couple of spots for a (non QB) they really like.

 

And with regards to Arizona I can't imagine any GM coming into a situation where they have a young top 10 QB with the potential to be top 5 and jettisoning him. Just not gonna happen unless Murray literally refuses to play. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by mistertim

[Redskins 2021]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

It wasn't necessarily the same move because there were reportedly multiple teams looking to move up to 11 in the 2021 draft, which drove the price up. That's much more likely to happen in a big QB draft when a guy falls (like Fields did) than in a QB class that isn't as loaded with talent. 

 

If the Steelers want to move up to 11 for some reason, they probably won't have much in the way of competition, so we'd probably have to accept a 2nd rounder. But I doubt anyone wants to move up to 11 anyway, unless it's only moving up a couple of spots for a (non QB) they really like.

 

And with regards to Arizona I can't imagine any GM coming into a situation where they have a young top 10 QB with the potential to be top 5 and jettisoning him. Just not gonna happen unless Murray literally refuses to play. 

 There are a few teams who like Willis if they want him and he is there they will pay. The teams ahead of them have had some intrust. It will cost to come up.

 

Detroit 

Cleveland 

Indy

Minnesota 

New Orleans 

 

Arizona owner was very upset last year. I could see him easily wanting to clean house if things go bad including Murray.

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 There are a few teams who like Willis if they want him and he is there they will pay. The teams ahead of them have had some intrust. It will cost to come up.

 

Detroit 

Cleveland 

Indy

Minnesota 

New Orleans 

 

Arizona owner was very upset last year. I could see him easily wanting to clean house if things go bad including Murray.

 

 

Willis is an intriguing prospect, but he's also super raw. He's nowhere near the prospect that a guy like Mahomes was, who fell to 10 because he was considered somewhat raw, and who KC gave up a bunch to move up for. I'd be pretty surprised if any team gave up a ton to move up for Willis. He's just not that kind of prospect. 

 

And Arizona's owner being pissed doesn't mean they're suddenly going to get rid of their marquee quarterback. That would make zero sense and would basically be them shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Again, I think the only way Murray leaves Arizona is if he flat out refuses to play for them.

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I think the end result would be the same as Jimmy G. We'd get a very modest upgrade, probably have to part with a 2nd round pick, probably have to give him a big new contract, and probably be no closer to winning a SB than we are right now.

 

Pass.

 

He's a UFA if I'm not mistaken. He's a good fit for Terry and Brown's skill sets too. Not trying to convince you one way or the other though. He's not your cup of tea I get it.

[88Comrade2000]

If our dreams come true and Dan Snyder is forced out later this year; it honestly doesn't matter what we do at QB.  If we can get a new owner before the end of the year; everyone is gone, including Ron. That new owner moves heaven and earth to get one of the Top 23 Draft QBs.

 

Even if the new owner takes over later in 23 but before the 23 draft; they will move heaven and earth to get one of the Top 23 Draft QBs and Ron would be in prove it year.

 

So, if we see this offseason real moves to remove Dan as owner; the QB we end up with in 22 won't really matter.