The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[RandyHolt]

5 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

It’s just a opinion, it’s not fact… i just personally think Fields wasn’t given a full hand, 2 HC and 3 OC in his 3 seasons. At this time of their careers I think Fields gives the Steelers the best outcome at QB.

 

I don’t understand why ppl blast others for their opinions on a player, a pick, a coach etc….

Its a bit odd how some get on tilt if you mention that Fields may have untapped potential. Ironically, Fields destroyed our defense in one half better than any other QB did all year. Eliminating the narrative but it was us. And it could have been worse if he didn't miss wide open Mooney deep and have to punt. And he did it without running. IIRC his OL was also in tatters. Lost their top RB early if not the backup as well. Or 3. JDR was probably on tilt fearing his legs.

 

Chicago is the place QBs go to die as we all know. I continually beat the drums about how an OC gets a pass for his failures while its all the young QBs fault. I call bunk that an NFL starting QB "can't pass".  What is true is that OCs often struggle to swallow their pride and implement a playbook call routes and plays that a QB excels at.

 

Smart cheap pickup low risk move by Pitt.

[skinsfan66]

2 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

It’s just a opinion, it’s not fact… i just personally think Fields wasn’t given a full hand, 2 HC and 3 OC in his 3 seasons. At this time of their careers I think Fields gives the Steelers the best outcome at QB.

 

I don’t understand why ppl blast others for their opinions on a player, a pick, a coach etc…. Sometimes I wonder how this board or other boards manage to stick around.  

They will find a way to use his running style to mix it up, if Wilson has nothing left then it is Fields. Fields had 4 years in Chicago they were just spinning wheels with him, my opinion not bashing.

[skinsfan66]

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Its a bit odd how some get on tilt if you mention that Fields may have untapped potential. Ironically, Fields destroyed our defense in one half better than any other QB did all year. Eliminating the narrative but it was us. And it could have been worse if he didn't miss wide open Mooney deep and have to punt. And he did it without running. IIRC his OL was also in tatters. Lost their top RB early if not the backup as well. Or 3. JDR was probably on tilt fearing his legs.

 

Chicago is the place QBs go to die as we all know. I continually beat the drums about how an OC gets a pass for his failures while its all the young QBs fault. I call bunk that an NFL starting QB "can't pass".  What is true is that OCs often struggle to swallow their pride and implement a playbook call routes and plays that a QB excels at.

 

Smart cheap pickup low risk move by Pitt.

So would you rather have Fields or Russell as your starter, that seemed to be the point and who was the best fit. I would take Fields to if I did not have a QB, would rather had Howell who lite up some better teams than Washington. 

[mistertim]

35 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

It’s just a opinion, it’s not fact… i just personally think Fields wasn’t given a full hand, 2 HC and 3 OC in his 3 seasons. At this time of their careers I think Fields gives the Steelers the best outcome at QB.

 

 

We hear this about pretty much every single bust QB. "Oh he can probably be good in a different setting", etc.

 

It basically never happens.

 

How many bust 1st round QBs have gone on to other teams and suddenly become good? They pretty much all either become permanent mediocre backups or end up completely out of the league shortly. 

 

If you watch Fields play, outside of his running and a few splash play throws, he sucks. He's just a bad QB. Terrible and slow at getting through progressions, panics often if his first read isn't open, he has little to no pocket presence or feel for pressure, he can't seem to read defenses pre or post snap and is very often fooled by any sort of disguised coverage, his footwork and mechanics suck (we know those are things that QBs can improve, but his hasn't in 3 years so far), he sucks at throwing off platform, he's incredibly hesitant to make tight window 2nd level throws down the middle so he usually relies just on boundary throws...which makes it so much easier for NFL defenses to defend. 

 

He's. Just. Bad.

 

He's basically a running back who can occasionally complete a pass. If that's really what the Steelers want...good luck with that. My guess is they just figured they might as well grab him for super cheap and see what happens. Best case is he becomes a mediocre backup who can at least come in if need be and run to mix it up (or be a gadget player), worst case is he just continues to suck and they let him go and they lose little.

[mac8887]

29 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Its a bit odd how some get on tilt if you mention that Fields may have untapped potential. Ironically, Fields destroyed our defense in one half better than any other QB did all year. Eliminating the narrative but it was us. And it could have been worse if he didn't miss wide open Mooney deep and have to punt. And he did it without running. IIRC his OL was also in tatters. Lost their top RB early if not the backup as well. Or 3. JDR was probably on tilt fearing his legs.

 

Chicago is the place QBs go to die as we all know. I continually beat the drums about how an OC gets a pass for his failures while its all the young QBs fault. I call bunk that an NFL starting QB "can't pass".  What is true is that OCs often struggle to swallow their pride and implement a playbook call routes and plays that a QB excels at.

 

Smart cheap pickup low risk move by Pitt.

I like Fields. He put on a clinic against us last year on prime time. I know we had a bad defense, but he made it look easy. He will eventually get a chance to start again someday, somewhere. There is just to much talent for him to not get another opportunity. He might even get a shot this year if Rus doesn’t play well. But if he doesn’t learn to process the field better, he won’t succeed. 

[redskinss]

Historically in the nfl there's been a pretty consistent spectrum from elite runners who don't throw at an elite level to elite passers who can't run worth a damn.

 

we haven't yet gotten a quarterback  who can run like lamar jackson and throw like patrick mahomes but I'm sure hoping we drafted him this year, if that guy ever comes along he'll change the league like Michael jordan.

 

If jayden can develop into a 4 thousand yard a year passer with 35 touchdowns and 15 interceptions and only burn defenses with his legs occasionally he'll be our first franchise quarterback in 60 years and we'll be competing for superbowls. 

 

If he keeps breaking the pocket and running for a hundred yards a game because He can't beat defenses with his arm he'll either be out injured or traded to steelers 3 years from now for a 6th round pick.

[mac8887]

15 hours ago, TheShredder said:

That's a year too soon. Wouldn't anticipate Adam Peters 1-giving up draft picks for a WR that is looking to reset the market...2-adding top of the market Free Agents in year 1. 

He knows what SF wants and what they'll likely do.  Aiyuk is a guy that you add when you don't have a #1 WR or you're one piece away from making a run. 

Being Patient...

I don’t think it’s ever to soon to acquire a top end talent at a skill position, especially if you have the cap space to do so, which we do. Now the problem lies, at least in my opinion is the draft compensation to get him here. A 1st or a 2nd? I’d say no, but for a 3rd? That at least gets him here, and gives you the ability to extend him before he hits FA and drives up the price even more. 
 

If we were to add him, our WR core would be a force, didn’t we have Moss, Garçon, and Djax at one point? Yes the o line doesn’t look like a finished product by any means, but by adding a great receiver, that pretty much would cement us having enough playmakers to potentially make a run at a division title this year, especially if the defense is better, which I feel is ok to assume that it will be, based on the player and coaching upgrades we’ve brought in.

 

Unless you’ve got Mahomes or Josh Allen, you are going to need top end talent all over the field if you plan on seriously competing. Aiyuk is a top end talent, and is the type of player that gives teams an edge in close games.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, mac8887 said:

I like Fields. He put on a clinic against us last year on prime time. I know we had a bad defense, but he made it look easy. He will eventually get a chance to start again someday, somewhere. There is just to much talent for him to not get another opportunity. He might even get a shot this year if Rus doesn’t play well. But if he doesn’t learn to process the field better, he won’t succeed. 

 

People said the same stuff about Darnold and Trubisky.

 

They still sucked.

 

And our defense was hilariously atrocious that day, but ok...Fields looked good. So what? Even ****ty QBs sometimes have great games. Overall if you watch him enough you'll see just how bad Fields really is as an actual QB (very good running back though).

[DogofWar1]

Baller.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

Historically in the nfl there's been a pretty consistent spectrum from elite runners who don't throw at an elite level to elite passers who can't run worth a damn.

 

we haven't yet gotten a quarterback  who can run like lamar jackson and throw like patrick mahomes but I'm sure hoping we drafted him this year, if that guy ever comes along he'll change the league like Michael jordan.

 

If jayden can develop into a 4 thousand yard a year passer with 35 touchdowns and 15 interceptions and only burn defenses with his legs occasionally he'll be our first franchise quarterback in 60 years and we'll be competing for superbowls. 

 

If he keeps breaking the pocket and running for a hundred yards a game because He can't beat defenses with his arm he'll either be out injured or traded to steelers 3 years from now for a 6th round pick.

 

I think you kinda have to pick which one you want, because you have to design your offensive system around it. If you have a guy like Lamar, you design your offense around his running. If you have a guy like Mahomes, you design your offense around his passing.

 

Now obviously if you have an athletic QB who can use his legs it makes plenty of sense to design some runs into the system (as in Josh Allen for example). But that's completely different than designing your entire system around a QB's running (as in Lamar).

 

I just really really hope they choose to focus on Jayden's passing and use his running ability as an adjunct vs the main feature. Because I agree with you, if he can become an elite passer who can keep defenses on their toes with his legs sometimes, then he could become a 10+ year franchise QB and we could be a perennial contender. If the choice is to focus on his running, I think he'll flame out like other running QBs.

 

Though, as I've noted in the past, my biggest concern there with Daniels isn't necessarily that we'll have a ****load of designed runs (LSU didn't) but that he statistically tends to take off so damn often when pressured and moved off his spot vs scrambling and throwing off platform. Hopefully that can be improved on.

[actorguy1]

 

 

[illone]

 

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

It basically never happens.

Except for Jim Plunkett, Rich Gannon, Alex Smith, Trent Green, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer, Vinny Testaverde, Kerry Collins, Geno Smith, Doug Flutie, and Im sure im missing a few. 
 

Some guys just take longer to develop. 
 

Not saying Fields will, but to say it never happens is just silly. 

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, illone said:

 

Except for Jim Plunkett, Rich Gannon, Alex Smith, Trent Green, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer, Vinny Testaverde, Kerry Collins, Geno Smith, Doug Flutie, and Im sure im missing a few. 
 

Some guys just take longer to develop. 
 

Not saying Fields will, but to say it never happens is just silly. 

 

I said busts who went somewhere else and suddenly became good. Gannon was a 4th rounder, Green was an 8th rounder, Warner was undrafted, Plummer was a 2nd rounder, Flutie was an 11th rounder, Geno was a 2nd rounder. Guys drafted after the 1st don't have much in the way of expectations. None of those guys were drafted as the face of the franchise.

 

So that leaves Plunkett, Alex Smith, and Testaverde. Plunkett is hard to really judge because it was such a different era. He never really put up much in the way of stats but did win 2 SBs (though being able to lean on Marcus Allen certainly made his job easier in SB18). 

 

Alex Smith is basically the textbook definition of mediocrity. He didn't go somewhere else and suddenly become a top QB. He sucked at first in SF, then managed to transition to mediocrity there and that's where he stayed for the rest of his career.

 

Testaverde had a couple of good years but was a career journeyman. 

 

I was talking about 1st round busts who went to another team and became that new team's long term franchise QB and lived up to their draft status. I said there are some who go on to be journeymen and backups. That's Smith and Testaverde.

[SkinsFTW]

Steve Young.......end of list.

 

And he happened to luck into going to a juggernaut and got to sit for several years.

Edited May 4 by SkinsFTW

[redskin301]

Just now, SkinsFTW said:

Steve Young.......end of list.

Josh Allen?

[SkinsFTW]

Just now, redskin301 said:

Josh Allen?

 

Josh Allen busted and then hit it big on another team?

[redskin301]

3 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Josh Allen busted and then hit it big on another team?

My bad I saw a different comment about elite runners and passers I was completely off topic 

[SkinsFTW]

Just now, redskin301 said:

My bad I saw a different comment about elite runners and passers I was completely off topic 

 

 

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Steve Young.......end of list.

 

And he happened to luck into going to a juggernaut and got to sit for several years.

 

I think you're right. Young is probably the one dude who was drafted really high (though it was also the supplemental draft) and eventually lived up to his draft status somewhere else. But yeah, that was also a unique situation. He spent years backing up one of the greatest QBs to ever play and then at 30 years old got his second chance to be a franchise QB and went on to be a HoFer.

Edited May 4 by mistertim

[redskin301]

1 minute ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

 

Common ES post after someone admits to being wrong have a good day bud 

[SkinsFTW]

9 minutes ago, redskin301 said:

Common ES post after someone admits to being wrong have a good day bud 

 

[petey hodge]

Will Tress Way really give up his #5 jersey?

 

He's been our franchise player for so many years...

[FootballZombie]

QBs figuring it out after moving on does not happen often but Baker is a good recent example.

He got the bag to be the franchise QB from TB after flaming out w/ the team that drafted him and jumping around to several teams.

 

Ryan Tanny is another possible example. The dolphins traded him away for peanuts and he became Tenn's franchise guy w/ a monster deal.

 

 

Neither of these guys are elite QBs but Orgs saw fit to make them franchise signal callers and that should represent a "success" more than anything.

[redskin301]

5 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

Will Tress Way really give up his #5 jersey?

 

He's been our franchise player for so many years...

Maybe it’s for the best we don’t have the best luck with #5

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

QBs figuring it out after moving on does not happen often but Baker is a good recent example.

He got the bag to be the franchise QB from TB after flaming out w/ the team that drafted him and jumping around to several teams.

 

Ryan Tanny is another possible example. The dolphins traded him away for peanuts and he became Tenn's franchise guy w/ a monster deal.

 

 

Neither of these guys are elite QBs but Orgs saw fit to make them franchise signal callers and that should represent a "success" more than anything.

 

I dunno, maybe. Baker and Tanny were always "ok" QBs. They didn't live up to their draft status, but they weren't outright flameout busts. We'll see if last season was an aberration for Baker or his new norm. And Tanny went to Tennessee where the vast majority of the gameplan centered around Derrick Henry. Once Henry got banged up and started losing a step, Tannehill's production dropped as well because teams didn't have to constantly sell out to stop the run.