The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

29 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Did that naturally drop into your head ? Impressive…..

 

Would it be weird if I admitted it was actually a dream I had last night...?

[FootballZombie]

8 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I disagree. There are literally zero opposite hash deep outs on his tape. I think I saw 3 on all of the tape I watched. And I have watched a lot. It could be its not part of their offensive route tree. Or it could be that they dont trust his arm enough to have it in the playbook. But to say he makes every throw is inaccurate imo.

 

Rather than debate about whether he makes this throw I'm just gonna point out that the opposite hash deep out in the NFL is not even remotely equivalent to the opposite hash deep out in college.

 

Hashmarks in college are 40 ft wide while only a little over 18 ft wide in the NFL.

 

For an NFL QB to make an equivalent throw he would either need to roll out of the pocket and then throw back across traffic to an out route on the other side of the field (that would have to be run by the fattest, slowest WR in history) or he would need to be pitched the ball from the WR spot and yeet a pass all the way horizontally across the field to an out rout.

 

Worrying about if JD can make that pass is an absurd hill to die on b/c nobody cares about that equivalent pass in the NFL.

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Rather than debate about whether he makes this throw I'm just gonna point out that the opposite hash deep out in the NFL is not even remotely equivalent to the opposite hash deep out in college.

 

Hashmarks in college are 40 ft wide while only a little over 18 ft wide in the NFL.

 

For an NFL QB to make an equivalent throw he would either need to roll out of the pocket and then throw back across traffic to an out route on the other side of the field (that would have to be run by the fattest, slowest WR in history) or he would need to be pitched the ball from the WR spot and yeet a pass all the way horizontally across the field to an out rout.

 

Worrying about if JD can make that pass is an absurd hill to die on b/c nobody cares about that equivalent pass in the NFL.

This is a fair point. Actually the vertical passing game is slowly disappearing from the NFL period. I think only like 8% of thrown passes last year were deep routes of any kind. Again I dont really hate Daniels. I just dont like him over Caleb or Maye. And I think all 3 have a legit chance to be successful in the NFL. They all have issues and they all do some things well. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, DogofWar1 said:

We need a teenager to tell Caleb he's cringe.

 

Nothing gets one to introspect more than someone younger telling you you're cringe.  He'll go through the 5 phases, and come out the other end a bit more mature.

 

My experience is that adulthood means you realize the stuff that teenagers think is hilarious and cool, and the stuff that you thought was hilarious and cool when you were a teenager, is cringe.

 

Then the next step--Old Man Wisdom--is when you become generous enough to stop feeling that childishness is cringey, but sweet instead.

[NOLA2DC]

9 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

If you want to talk about intangibles that's absolutely fine, because I think we can all agree that they're important.

 

But please don't pretend as if there's no way to distinguish physical traits or what kinds of throws are common and necessary in the NFL and whether a certain college QB prospect tends to make them. I think that would be very disingenuous because it's all very well known. There's no big mystery behind what constitutes a tight window throw or anticipation throw.

 

To be honest, if you refuse to talk about that sort of stuff and pretend it's some impossible to measure phenomenon, then IMO that's more or less a tacit acknowledgement that you realize that your preferred QB doesn't really make those types of throws often because you're not a dumb guy so you know what those throws look like.

So let me get this straight. In the X number of pages on here with clips of the top three guys, are you saying Daniels does not make any of those throws or are you saying Maye does it more frequently?  The only explicit thing I am not doing is play the vid clip game because it a waste of my time with so many clips already in this thread. Do you deny those clips exist? 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

If it makes you feel better I still see it as ridiculous.

 

 

 

This kind of absolute certainty is ****ing annoying.

 

It's most likely to be Williams, but it's not a done deal 

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's most likely to be Williams, but it's not a done deal 

 

I'm doing it for you. You'll thank me in time.

 

[clskinsfan]

This is the kind of stuff that impresses me about Maye. His willingness to get hit in in the pocket while still delivering a beautiful ball. This was a cheap **** by the way imo. I saw some of this stuff from Daniels tape as well. But Daniels would be far more likely to take off and run in this position than Maye is.

 

Edit: Look how he steps up into the pocket and delivers the ball with velocity and accuracy while throwing from an awkward angle and getting drilled in the legs. 

 

Edited February 24 by clskinsfan

[SkinsNatsFan]

30 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

But he has smallish hands friend......Just saying. 

This of course has been proven to be a valuable key, not only with the reference above, but as a QB evaluation tool. Hopefully none of the three skip the hand size measurement at the combine. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the results. It was a stroke of pure genius for the Bengals to make sure Burrow's backup had the same size hands, so they didn't have to modify the offense when he had to come in.

[FootballZombie]

Just now, SkinsNatsFan said:

Hopefully none of the three skip the hand size measurement at the combine.

 

Is that a thing?

Has anyone ever done that?

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, SkinsNatsFan said:

This of course has been proven to be a valuable key, not only with the reference above, but as a QB evaluation tool. Hopefully none of the three skip the hand size measurement at the combine. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the results. It was a stroke of pure genius for the Bengals to make sure Burrow's backup had the same size hands, so they didn't have to modify the offense when he had to come in.

I think Daniels is like 9 1/4-9 1/2...Not ideal. But not a deal breaker either. I think the whole hand size thing is overrated anyways.

[SkinsNatsFan]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Is that a thing?

Has anyone ever done that?

No idea. Just dry humor. Sometimes it hits, sometimes it misses

[Number 44]

46 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Am I the only one that’s thinks a trade up for Williams at #1 is still the clear front runner ?

 

75% trade up for Williams

15% take Daniels at #2

5% take Maye at #2

5% any other outcome…..

I sure hope so.  I think Peters is smarter than that.  If Chicago offers to trade us the #1 pick, that would be a sure sign that they've decided to go with someone other than Williams.  If we want Williams, stand pat.  No reason whatsoever to give up a lot of draft capital to move up a spot.  If the Bears want Williams, they'll take him at #1 and we aren't getting him no matter what.  If they want Maye or Daniels, Williams will be available to us at #2.  If they want someone other than the top 3 QBs, they'd be talking trade with NE or Ariz, not us, as they'd receive more in a trade back with those teams than in a trade with us.  Worst possible outcome for us, imo, would be to needlessly give up draft capital by trading up to #1.  There just isn't a scenario where both Chicago and Washington want Williams at #1 and the Bears decide to trade the pick to us.

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I said last week that I was worried Maye goes #1 and a slew of people laughed at me. Now it's creeping into mocks.

Yeah, I’ve had the same thought for a while now but decided I wasn’t stupid enough to suggest it.

 

 

sorry, I meant “brave enough”…

 

😁

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, Dah-Dee said:

"This is a professional throw in every sense of the word. Daniels starts off looking to his left, holding the coverage in place. Then, he shifts his progress to the one-on-one matchup with Lacy. While the receiver doesn't have much separation, the QB still doesn't hesitate. He rips the ball with authority, fitting it into an impossibly tight window. Three inches further, it's incomplete. Three inches shorter, it's intercepted. That is a throw NFL quarterbacks make."

 

This isn't really what those of us complaining about Jayden's extremely conservative decision-making are talking about.  This is a great throw, but it's an outside shoulder deep corner where his receiver had outside leverage from the snap.  It's an us or nobody throw, and there is a ton of space for him to make that throw since they ran the concept from the field side slot and there was no safety in the area.  This evaluator thinks that was a hard throw because the coverage was mostly in phase, but making that particular throw is routine for NFL standards, not special.  Special is what we want to see, because that's what we get from Williams or Maye.

 

Also, that throw was a super easy read, and Jayden was on it from the pre-snap look because the deep safety was on the boundary side and posted further to it right after the snap, and the underneath defender was clearly lined up in man coverage on the TE.  I don't see him "holding the coverage in place" by looking off the throw, and that would have been completely unnecessary.  You don't want him wasting time and missing his window or having the picture changed on him and making a mistake.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

This isn't really what those of us complaining about Jayden's extremely conservative decision-making are talking about.  This is a great throw, but it's an outside shoulder deep corner where his receiver had outside leverage from the snap.  It's an us or nobody throw, and there is a ton of space for him to make that throw since they ran the concept from the field side slot and there was no safety in the area.  This evaluator thinks that was a hard throw because the coverage was mostly in phase, but making that particular throw is routine for NFL standards, not special.  Special is what we want to see, because that's what we get from Williams or Maye.

 

Also, that throw was a super easy read, and Jayden was on it from the pre-snap look because the deep safety was on the boundary side and posted further to it right after the snap, and the underneath defender was clearly lined up in man coverage on the TE.  I don't see him "holding the coverage in place" by looking off the throw, and that would have been completely unnecessary.  You don't want him wasting time and missing his window or having the picture changed on him and making a mistake.

 

I noticed that about the safety in that clip as well. I was actually trying to figure out what coverage they were in. It looked to me sort of like cover 1 man or something along those lines.

[clskinsfan]

8 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

I sure hope so.  I think Peters is smarter than that.  If Chicago offers to trade us the #1 pick, that would be a sure sign that they've decided to go with someone other than Williams.  If we want Williams, stand pat.  No reason whatsoever to give up a lot of draft capital to move up a spot.  If the Bears want Williams, they'll take him at #1 and we aren't getting him no matter what.  If they want Maye or Daniels, Williams will be available to us at #2.  If they want someone other than the top 3 QBs, they'd be talking trade with NE or Ariz, not us, as they'd receive more in a trade back with those teams than in a trade with us.  Worst possible outcome for us, imo, would be to needlessly give up draft capital by trading up to #1.  There just isn't a scenario where both Chicago and Washington want Williams at #1 and the Bears decide to trade the pick to us.

They can trade the pick to someone else who wants Caleb though?

[Koolblue13]

I'm open to running it back with Howell, getting draft picks and Nabers as well.

[Going Commando]

12 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Daniels, McCarthy and Penix all working out together in California (combine prep I assume)

 

Also a good debate on Twitter about the importance of being able to play on schedule and in rhythm

 

This makes me think that despite Zierlein watching more film, he never learned the relevant lessons from his too-low grades on the literal best QBs in the NFL right now.  When you're picking a QB at the top of the draft, you're not just looking for someone who can consistently stay on script.  You're looking for an elite playmaker, and creativity is the premium trait.

[Number 44]

14 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

They can trade the pick to someone else who wants Caleb though?

They certainly wouldn't trade Fields if they aren't taking a QB.  They certainly wouldn't trade the #1 pick at all if they want Williams.  They certainly wouldn't trade down further than #2 if they want Daniels or Maye.  Can you really see any scenario where the Bears have Williams rated #1 and they trade the pick to us?  And as I said, they'd undoubtedly get a larger haul if they have decided not to take one of the top 3 QBs if they traded down to #3 or #4 than they would by trading with us.  It just isn't logical that it would be a good idea to accept a trade offer from Chicago to trade up a spot.

Edited February 24 by Number 44

[FrFan]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm open to running it back with Howell, getting draft picks and Nabers as well.

[clskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm open to running it back with Howell, getting draft picks and Nabers as well.

If they trade back they are going to pick one of the other QB's they like. I cant see us running with Howell again. 

[mistertim]

I'm open to bringing RG3 back and trading the #2 for 10 5th round picks and using them all on Long Snappers.

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

They certainly wouldn't trade Fields if they aren't taking a QB.  They certainly wouldn't trade the #1 pick at all if they want Williams.  They certainly wouldn't trade down further than #2 if they want Daniels or Maye.  Can you really see any scenario where the Bears have Williams rated #1 and they trade the pick to us?  And as I said, they'd undoubtedly get a larger haul if they have decided not to take one of the top 3 QBs if they traded down to #3 or #4 than they would by trading with us.  It just isn't logical that it would a good idea to accept a trade offer from Chicago to trade up a spot.

Maybe they covet Maye and Daniels both over Caleb. We have no clue. And there are no absolutes. Lets say New England or the Giants blow them away with an offer. Arizona and San Diego arent picking QB's. They would be guaranteed one of the 3 in that case imo.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

I'm open to bringing RG3 back and trading the #2 for 10 5th round picks and using them all on Long Snappers.

 

Nah, I'd rather bring Jason Campbell back and load up the roster with 25 7th round picks this year.  A QB can't succeed without a team around him!  The QB himself doesn't actually matter you know...