The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[kingdaddy]

Just now, skinsarethebest said:

Anyone else worried this SB might have lessened our chances of being able to trade up for Caleb Williams?  It’ sounds almost simplistic to say this, but CW is almost always touted as the next Mahomes…. And if this is the case, will the Bears find themselves unable to say no to Caleb?

With all due respect....there is no "next Mahomes". 

[ThatNFLChick]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Just a reminder that scouting QBs is not easy.

 

Mahomes isn't Mahomes if he doesn't sit for a year, learn from Alex Smith (who was willing to take him under his wing and mentor him) and if he doesn't go to a super stacked Chiefs team that had already been to multiple AFC Championships before he arrived.

 

There has to be more context added to this. If Mahomes was drafted to a team like the Panthers this year and had to start right away is he in the same position? Highly doubtful. 

[bh32]

It's not just Mahomes, That defense is underated..If for not them SF could of easily been up 14 -0

[skinsarethebest]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

With all due respect....there is no "next Mahomes". 

I agree with you, but the “comparable” for CW is always PM, as opposed to say, Lamar, or Josh Allen, or Jalen Hurts.  Again, I think it’s simple minded to think in such reductive terms but I think it’s an easy mental trap to fall into, and if the pundits/media/execs keep touting Caleb as the next Mahomes, it could color people’s thinking?  Everyone will be looking for the next Mahomes, regardless of whether such a person even exists…

[CjSuAvE22]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Mahomes isn't Mahomes if he doesn't sit for a year, learn from Alex Smith (who was willing to take him under his wing and mentor him) and if he doesn't go to a super stacked Chiefs team that had already been to multiple AFC Championships before he arrived.

 

 

Balogna. Maybe you can say Mahomes isn’t Mahomes without Andy Reid but it sure as heck has nothing to do with Alex Smith.

Edited February 12 by CjSuAvE22

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Mahomes isn't Mahomes if he doesn't sit for a year, learn from Alex Smith (who was willing to take him under his wing and mentor him) and if he doesn't go to a super stacked Chiefs team that had already been to multiple AFC Championships before he arrived.

 

There has to be more context added to this. If Mahomes was drafted to a team like the Panthers this year and had to start right away is he in the same position? Highly doubtful. 

Quite possibly. I’d say the same about Rodgers - he’s was flat awful his rookie year in preseason, if he’d been forced to play early who knows what happens.

[kingdaddy]

Just now, skinsarethebest said:

I agree with you, but the “comparable” for CW is always PM, as opposed to say, Lamar, or Josh Allen, or Jalen Hurts.  Again, I think it’s simple minded to think in such reductive terms but I think it’s an easy mental trap to fall into, and if the pundits/media/execs keep touting Caleb as the next Mahomes, it could color people’s thinking?  Everyone will be looking for the next Mahomes, regardless of whether such a person even exists…

I hear ya, but, comparing any kid coming out of college to Patrick Mahomes doesn't seem right. Mahomes has won 3 SB's and is on a planet by himself in the history of the game. CW is not the next Mahomes, no one is.....However, if the scouting report is that great on CW then I guess we need to get him?

[skinsfan66]

3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Mahomes isn't Mahomes if he doesn't sit for a year, learn from Alex Smith (who was willing to take him under his wing and mentor him) and if he doesn't go to a super stacked Chiefs team that had already been to multiple AFC Championships before he arrived.

 

There has to be more context added to this. If Mahomes was drafted to a team like the Panthers this year and had to start right away is he in the same position? Highly doubtful. 

If he was drafted to this team , he may have been run out of town. Andy is working coaching on a different level its not all about talent.

[mac8887]

6 minutes ago, skinsarethebest said:

Anyone else worried this SB might have lessened our chances of being able to trade up for Caleb Williams?  It’ sounds almost simplistic to say this, but CW is almost always touted as the next Mahomes…. And if this is the case, will the Bears find themselves unable to say no to Caleb?

It's possible but I still think we have a good chance to get him. If they have any doubts about him at all they won't turn down #2 overall, a second this year, and another 1st next year, and I could possibly seeing us offering another second. That's a lot of capitol to move down 1 spot.

 

[ThatNFLChick]

7 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Balogna. Maybe you can say Mahomes isn’t Mahomes without Andy Reid but it sure as hell has nothing to do with Alex Smith.

 

Mahomes HIMSELF has said Alex Smith had a ton to do with it. He has said it numerous times. Seriously, just google "Mahomes thanks Alex Smith" or "Mahomes credits Alex Smith" and you get 100 hits. It doesn't mean Mahomes wouldn't have been good anyway but as quickly as he was? Probably not. There would have been a much steeper learning curve IMO. And yes Reid and the situation had a lot to do with it too. 

 

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Quite possibly. I’d say the same about Rodgers - he’s was flat awful his rookie year in preseason, if he’d been forced to play early who knows what happens.

 

Yes. We see it happen over and over. Rodgers sitting behind Favre helped him. Love sitting behind Rodgers helped him. Brady and Bledeoe. Its seeing how they practice, how they prepare, how they train, how they watch film, how they command a huddle, how they read defenses and the tendencies they pick up on, etc.

 

It's one thing to have someone tell you what to do, its another to see it actually put into practice by another QB, mimic it, etc 

Edited February 12 by ThatNFLChick

[skinsfan66]

4 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Balogna. Maybe you can say Mahomes isn’t Mahomes without Andy Reid but it sure as heck has nothing to do with Alex Smith.

Alex taught him to read the D and Andy let him play his style with his baseball back round. Brock Purdy played baseball in high school too.

[KDawg]

Just now, MartinC said:

Quite possibly. I’d say the same about Rodgers - he’s was flat awful his rookie year in preseason, if he’d been forced to play early who knows what happens.

Same with Love.

 

It’s ongoing.

 

The key is this: NFL elite quarterbacks are made. And drafted.

 

You have to draft the right guy into the right situation and then develop them into things. 
 

This is why getting it right is so hard. 
 

You can pick the absolute right guy talent wise. But maybe he comes to your city and gets a little home sick and rubs a guy the wrong way. And if he’s starting right away it gets in his head. And now he’s tanked…

 

Then people say, “well, he obviously couldn’t handle the mental part” and that is true. Completely. But, he may not have faced the same trials and tribulations elsewhere and by the time he did he’d have a footing and confidence.

 

There is a reason a lot of these guys are as good as they are. The top QBs are beloved in their respective cities. Not just because of how good they are (but that helps) but because they have embraced their city and their city and franchise embraced them. 
 

This is why these debates happen. I’m not sure that we are a situation for a guy like Caleb Williams. Not because he’s not talented or I think he can’t hack it. He sure as hell can. 
 

But because we are cynical and beaten and while he’d restore hope he’d also have to be successful fast or his quirks will bother everyone.

 

I’m not sure we’re great for Maye or Daniels, either. To be honest. 
 

But who knows. Maybe we’re great for all of them, now.

[skinsfan66]

Does anybody know if any of the 3 played baseball, my bet would be Daniels did not and the other 2 did. 

[CjSuAvE22]

Alex Smith is as an average qb at best, never played or won a Super Bowl if he had anything to do with Mahomes success it’s probably very minimal, of course Mahomes is going to give him praise but cmon to think Alex Smith was some pivotal character in Mahomes success is ridiculous, Andy Reid and the Chiefs knew what they were doing with Mahomes they traded up to get him they saw the talent a mile away. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, skinsfan66 said:

Does anybody know if any of the 3 played baseball, my bet would be Daniels did not and the other 2 did. 

Cant find anything that says Maye did, but his bro played college baseball for Florida so maybe he played in HS or Little League or something.

 

He does come from a super competitive athletic family though. 

Just now, CjSuAvE22 said:

Alex Smith is as an average qb at best, never played or won a Super Bowl if he had anything to do with Mahomes success it’s probably very minimal, of course Mahomes is going to give him praise but cmon to think Alex Smith was some pivotal character in Mahomes success is ridiculous, Andy Reid and the Chiefs knew what they were doing with Mahomes they traded up to get him they saw the talent a mile away. 

I think Mahomes did benefit from sitting for a year and it just so happened that Alex Smith was the starter.

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, skinsfan66 said:

Does anybody know if any of the 3 played baseball, my bet would be Daniels did not and the other 2 did. 

They all should have, every high schooler should play multiple sports unless you are throwing a 95mph+ fastball. I've you're throwing 95+ in highschool, your getting drafted pretty high in a sport that has no salary cap and all contracts are garuanteed. 

[KDawg]

Just now, CjSuAvE22 said:

Alex Smith is as an average qb at best, never played or won a Super Bowl if he had anything to do with Mahomes success it’s probably very minimal, of course Mahomes is going to give him praise but cmon to think Alex Smith was some pivotal character in Mahomes success is ridiculous, Andy Reid and the Chiefs knew what they were doing with Mahomes they traded up to get him they saw the talent a mile away. 

This is the wrong way of looking at it. Smith didn’t have to be better than Mahomes to influence him positively. If that was necessary, Reid wouldn’t be Reid.

 

Smith could have simply instilled a work ethic that Patrick didn’t know prior to coming. A way to break down film, a way of communicating, eases the transition to talking to the coaches.

 

All of that stuff is important but people ignore it or don’t think about it. But those are skills that you have to learn.

 

Football isn’t just played on a field. It’s a mental game that takes place in the building and sometimes are home.

[CjSuAvE22]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

I think Mahomes did benefit from sitting for a year and it just so happened that Alex Smith was the starter.

I agree with you there he came into the best situation, with a solid coach and organization behind him

[skinsfan66]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Cant find anything that says Maye did, but his bro played college baseball for Florida so maybe he played in HS or Little League or something.

 

He does come from a super competitive athletic family though. 

Tar Heel Basketball family.

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Does anybody know if any of the 3 played baseball, my bet would be Daniels did not and the other 2 did. 

 

Howell did.  

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Howell did.  

He could be the next Jackson mahomes 

[Ghedrick]

At the end of the day Purdy is not winning a superbowl.Everyone that knows football could predict this.Go get Caleb!

Edited February 12 by Ghedrick

[CjSuAvE22]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This is the wrong way of looking at it. Smith didn’t have to be better than Mahomes to influence him positively. If that was necessary, Reid wouldn’t be Reid.

 

Smith could have simply instilled a work ethic that Patrick didn’t know prior to coming. A way to break down film, a way of communicating, eases the transition to talking to the coaches.

That is complete hypothesis, go with the facts as an eagle Reid went to 5 nfc championships and one Super Bowl as a chief welll yeah, he wasn’t going to fail with Patrick Mahomes, I’m sorry but Alex Smith wasn’t a magical chess piece to the success imo which is just that my opinion, but you can’t tell me with full certainty that Smith was pivotal for Mahomes. 

[NOLA2DC]

There are two QBs under 30 playing right now who are already first-ballot HOF guys. I think you have to consider this when discussing this current draft class. 

[ThatNFLChick]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Same with Love.

 

It’s ongoing.

 

The key is this: NFL elite quarterbacks are made. And drafted.

 

You have to draft the right guy into the right situation and then develop them into things. 
 

This is why getting it right is so hard. 
 

You can pick the absolute right guy talent wise. But maybe he comes to your city and gets a little home sick and rubs a guy the wrong way. And if he’s starting right away it gets in his head. And now he’s tanked…

 

Then people say, “well, he obviously couldn’t handle the mental part” and that is true. Completely. But, he may not have faced the same trials and tribulations elsewhere and by the time he did he’d have a footing and confidence.

 

There is a reason a lot of these guys are as good as they are. The top QBs are beloved in their respective cities. Not just because of how good they are (but that helps) but because they have embraced their city and their city and franchise embraced them. 
 

This is why these debates happen. I’m not sure that we are a situation for a guy like Caleb Williams. Not because he’s not talented or I think he can’t hack it. He sure as hell can. 
 

But because we are cynical and beaten and while he’d restore hope he’d also have to be successful fast or his quirks will bother everyone.

 

I’m not sure we’re great for Maye or Daniels, either. To be honest. 
 

But who knows. Maybe we’re great for all of them, now.

 

I'm going to be honest, I think we have to draft a QB but this isn't a great situation for them. I don't think Bryce Young is very good but he was also drafted into an absolutely awful situation. Prior to him being drafted the narrative was that they had put together an all star team of offensive minds to guide him but that did not materialize at all, he had no WRs, no TEs, a bad offensive line, and I think they set his development back. He looked way worse this year than he ever looked in college. 

 

The hope is we can create a situation like the Texans with Stroud. They drafted a really good, hard working kid who worked closely with the OC and didn't have too big of a learning curve (Stroud was a clean prospect though - he didn't have a ton of mechanical issues they had to work with him on).

 

I am not naive about this though. If you look at other young QBs who started pretty early across the league:

 

Anthony Richardson

4 games

50/84, 59% completion percentage 

577 passing yards

3 TDs, 1 INT

44.9 QBR

136 rushing yards

4 TDs

 

Will Levis

9 games

149/255, 58% completion percentage

1808 passing yards

8 TDs, 4 INTs

33.1 QBR

57 rushing yards

1 TD

 

Bryce Young

16 games

315/527, 58% completion percentage

2877 passing yards

11 TDs, 10 INTs

33.4 QBR

253 rushing yards

0 TDs

 

It is rough. If we go back another year and do Kenny Pickett, Sam Howell and Desmond Ridder it is still quite rough and ugly.