The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[KDawg]

A new FO isn't dumping Howell...

 

I've been saying it since before the season.

 

The only way they do is the following:

 

1. He completely falls apart

2. If he gets a major injury

3. We have to be high enough to get a QB that they think is much better than Howell (Top 5 pick)

[Koolblue13]

I figured this crashed the site

 

[Going Commando]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think the FO does a bad job at identifying talent. I think they do a bad job maximizing it. They overdraft, they don't manage assets...

 

Which was why trading Young AND Sweat was a major positive in my eyes. It's a step in the right direction.

 

I agree.  They definitely reach with their first rounders and they aren't good at trading and they really struggle at getting extensions done.  Every second contract is a ****ing adventure here, when most good teams just get these things handled without drama.  I don't agree that trading Sweat and Young were good asset management though.  That was more of the same to me.  We basically lost two Probowl caliber players for a couple of day two picks even though we have 90 million in cap space next year and not much to spend it on.  Chase should be here playing on his fifth year option next season, and Sweat should have been extended or franchised.  Now we have to spend a high pick on finding an edge who is probably not going to be as good or as talented as them, or else drop a boatload of money on Brian Burns or Danielle Hunter this winter.

 

It'd be great to get more efficient with our draft picks and get better about getting these key extensions done.  It'd also be great to hire better assistant coaches, especially on defense.  But the fundamental job of roster building hasn't been bad here.  And now that we have this QB prospect showing promise, I think it's a bad idea to rock the boat.

 

I think a lot of the people calling for wholesale change to the FO and coaching staff are underestimating how much always gets lost in the wash of that kind of regime change.  You usually see 75% of the roster turned over by the second offseason of a new regime.

[Warhead36]

We've been hovering around .500 for 3+ years. Massive roster turnover isn't exactly a deal breaker for me.

[Koolblue13]

It's like buying a house and the seller is leaving the Vette in the garage for you.

 

Sam is a selling point for the future coach.

[Going Commando]

20 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Honestly the only one I consider above average right now is Terry. And he has had his share of drops as well. All of the rest are replaceable imo. 

 

Still too early to write off Jahan.  He's average at best right now, but I can definitely see a world where he ends up being another Tyler Lockett.  His hands are too good for the drops to remain such a big issue for him.  His confidence and his role within the offense will probably grow as the season plays out.

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's like buying a house and the seller is leaving the Vette in the garage for you.

 

Sam is a selling point for the future coach.

 

But when Sam struggles to adjust to his third new system in year three and doesn't show signs of progress for a brand new regime with absolutely zero people in his corner, and a contract extension conundrum looming, what happens then?

 

That's the part of this I don't think you all are considering.

 

They'd dump his ass instead of paying him, and then we'd be starting over from scratch in a far worse QB draft class with a new regime burning a year of their window to rebuild.  That is the nightmare outcome, and the repetition of the pattern of mistakes that this franchise has been making for 20 years.

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

That's the part of this I don't think you all are considering.

I know you think this, but Sam is rostered cheaply for two more years and will be on the tea regardless and drafting another QB isn't hindered because of it.

[RandyHolt]

I thought I was banned for suggesting to mods to mod the free agency threat title to include trades. We're back!

 

That Howell late game TD pass to Crowder - he threw that off his back foot. Side stepping left a defender in his face late - that's my fav throw of his so far. Another lofted pass - I would swear he is adding more touch on his deep balls the past 2 weeks. I love the lofted deep balls with a crappy OL under constant pressure vs a clean pocket but a missile on a rope stepping into your throws like Campbell used to fire over Tana's head over and over. Pocket Passing Protocol Purists heads explode with horrible footwork. A QB has to be able to make all types of throws.

 

 

Unrelated In the news... he's baaaaack.

Edited November 9, 2023 by RandyHolt

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

If we make a run I’m starting to think there is a chance Rivera stays. Which… I mean… not the best.

 

But a GM making decisions over him would make things… more palatable.

 

 

It won’t change a thing. A Gm picking the players won’t cure him being a mediocre coach.

 

If he returns, he’s likely to be worse next year.

 

That would be the biggest mistake Josh could make.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

It won’t change a thing. A Gm picking the players won’t cure him being a mediocre coach.

 

If he returns, he’s likely to be worse next year.

 

That would be the biggest mistake Josh could make.

 

I haven't argued otherwise.

[Jumbo]

8 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I thought I was banned for suggesting to mods to mod the free agency threat to include trades. 

 

That Howell late game TD pass to Crowder - he threw that off his back foot. Side stepping left a defender in his face late - that's my fav throw of his so far. Another lofted pass - I would swear he is adding more touch on his deep balls the past 2 weeks. I love the lofted deep balls with a crappy OL under constant pressure vs a clean pocket but a missile on a rope like Campbell used to fire over Tana's head over and over. Pocket Passing Protocol Purists heads explode with horrible footwork. A QB has to be able to make all types of throws.

 

Unrelated In the news... he's baaaaack.

 

Curious. You have zero bans on your record. Not one from any mod. Nor would anyone ever be banned for simply what you just described.

 

Are you huffing krylon again? 😁

[RandyHolt]

Here's another Howell loft that will make Pocket Passing Protocol Purists P4^TM  heads explode

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

You're focusing on a narrow evaluation that is absolutely a direct result of the style of offense we have run and the QB being inexperienced.  When you throw 40 times a game and most of those are long developing concepts from a true pass set, then your tackles are going to lose blocks and give up more pressures than every team below that extreme.  It's just too large a volume of disadvantaged pass blocking reps where the defense knows what you are doing beforehand and you have to block longer than the norm.  The same thing happened to KC last year, but they still had a great offense playing in that style.

 

 

I am not really going narrow at all at least not in my mind.  I spent some time evaluating Wylie in the off season.  All the time on different topics I say i don't know enough, I haven't rewatched, etc.  With Wylie I spent some time watching him.  And spent time thinking why does he lead the league in pressures given up or close enough to that multiple seasons in a row -- yet PFF doesn't hate him.  

 

I spoke about it plenty.  you are clearly the biggest Wylie fan that I follow of this team whether its here, twitter, call in radio.  So i am not going to convince you otherwise.  It's cool.  To each their own.

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

If viewing our offseason moves in the full context necessary to understand what was possible and prudent is grading on a curve, then so be it.  I hated giving up on Scherff and Trent too, but we did replace them with good players.  Leno and Cosmi are legitimately good.  Andrew Wylie is pretty good too.  They make up for losing Trent, Scherff, and Moses.

 

 

If I felt they replaced Trent, Moses, Scherff with good enough players to equal a goood unit then i'd agree with your point.  I don't think even this FO agrees with some of your points about the O line right now.  I got a strong vibe that they realize it now.

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Do you really think Ron deserves to be fired for not picking Christian Darrisaw in 2021?  For not trading up for Darnell Wright this year? 

 

Nope.  But its part of a series of reasons.

 

He deserves to be fired for an accumulation of bad decisions.  And I've seen enough to deduce in my mind he's an average coach, average GM at best.   He's in charge of the roster.  He's in season 4.    If this team ends up mediocre which it likely does then its enough.

 

I was OK with the ho hum off seasons leading to this off season believing he's building to something greater.  I was wrong.   Ho hum is where Ron Rivera likes to live clearly.

 

I can deal with the boring off seasons if they won or had an over the top focus on the future.  But neither is the case with Ron.  Boring-medicore.  And I want to see the fan momentum that we generated with Dan leaving continue.  Keeping Ron would likely derail that to some extent.

 

It's not hard to deduce that the average fan of this team doesn't have faith in Ron.  I've been going to games for 20 plus years.  I want to get the fans back.  It's been depressing to see the demise of the interest in this team.  

 

Going with Ron again i think would be depressing for many fans.  It would depress me, too.    The only redeeming thing about it is  I get a strong sense based on comments from different reporters that they get now they didn't do enough on the O line.  But otherwise, they aren't good enough IMO to take this time far.  They don't have the imagination with roster building to do it IMO.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

 

Curious. You have zero bans on your record. Not one from any mod. Nor would anyone ever be banned for simply what you just described.

 

Are you huffing krylon again? 😁

 

My guess is he read all the nice things people were compiling about you in memory of ES on Reddit and various other outlets and assumed The Great Ban Hammer had been dropped.

 

[RandyHolt]

7 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Curious. You have zero bans on your record. Not one from any mod. Nor would anyone ever be banned for simply what you just described.

 

Are you huffing krylon again? 😁

This website was indeed completely offline for 2 days, right??? 

 

Krylons for the birds but yeah I do tend to Sam Huff benzine fumes my way through the dark days of no extremeskinny talk.

Edited November 9, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Jumbo]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

My guess is he read all the nice things people were compiling about you in memory of ES on Reddit and various other outlets and assumed The Great Ban Hammer had been dropped.

 

 

I was actually actually disappointed when I read the link. I was expecting a fire hose of misplaced indignation and juvenile spazzing with a dash of actual hate. But unless I missed a bunch I only got to read about four guys complaining but one did call me s terrorist which I thought was at least something.

 

If there's more send me a link. I like performance reviews. 😛

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

What does this mean?

 

Someone brought up a few pages ago that Howell reminded them of Mayfield without the douchebag attitude and I shared the stats because they are very similar through the first 9 games.

[Jumbo]

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

This website was indeed completely offline for 2 days, right??? 

 

Krylons for the birds but yeah I do tend to Sam Huff benzine fumes my way through the dark days of no extremeskinny talkah

 

Ah, I missed the subtle humor. 😛😄

 

Caught me off guard cuz I couldn't imagine anyone had banned you since you never do anything that would net one. 👍

[Skinsinparadise]

[RandyHolt]

15 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Ah, I missed the subtle humor. 😛😄

 

Caught me off guard cuz I couldn't imagine anyone had banned you since you never do anything that would net one. 👍

 

Clearly I need to be a bigger arsewhole next time to get noticed haha. Thanks though!

 

I had fired off some irritated posts/DMs about why was there NO logical thread to discuss the trades - hoping a mod creates a place. People coming here for news didn't see the trades went down nor could see where to discuss them ad nauseam - they werent in breaking news either. It was a landmark moment for this org and those trades will be discussed for years IMO. I'd be happy to hear mods say they want us peasants to create threads but then you'll get 5 people making threads at once when **** goes down. Now we know to fish in the thread with the most recent reply if a draft day player thread doesn't get bumped.

 

Back on topic look at the loft / touch on this one - Has he been throwing deep like this all year and I missed it? I love those throws away from the defenders.

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by RandyHolt

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

My sense of the way the FO works is that Ron doesn't get very involved with the player personnel operations of the FO.  I think he lets Mayhew, Hurney, and Gribble run their draft and free agency the way they want to, and I know I'm alone on this take, but I think Mayhew, Hurney, and Gribble generally do a good job.  So even though Ron is their boss, I think they are still empowered to operate the way a regular FO does, and do so.

 

I think Eugene Shen was Harris's way of trying to strengthen the FO with a high level voice in the room who shares his sports management philosophy, and this was done in lieu of firing the GMs and bringing in his own people.  I think that Harris doesn't view that as necessary yet based on how the season has gone.

 

And lastly, I think we all jumped the gun on writing out Rivera's pink slip based on the first half of the season.  I'm pretty sure I did.  If Rivera truly has found his franchise QB like we are all hoping, then that should reset his window here.  He also did what Harris wanted and traded Montez and Chase and proved he will collaborate with Harris's vision and basically made sure the team will stay cheap for next season.  He's only one game out of a wild card spot at the halfway point, and the Vikings are super vulnerable.  He's not giving Josh Harris reasons to fire him.

 

I want to see this effort to develop Sam Howell play out.  Ron's and Bieniemy have done a poor job coaching most of this year, but they're Sam's best shot at panning out here.  They are necessarily 100% in his corner and them getting to at least see out there contracts buys the necessary time for Sam to grow into the job.

Screw that.  If Sam is going to grow, it's going to be with a new staff.

 

Great gm team. They are mediocre like, the coach.  If Josh is going to build a winning team, he needs to bring in a new gm and new head coach.  The new gm and coach will then decide which returning players they will build around.  I expect in 2-3 years; most of the roster will have turned over.

 

You are wrong in your belief that things will get better by keeping everyone; just because it seems Sam maybe a legit QB.  Keeping the same people will just continue the mediocrity. Ron will not be any better and the incompetent gm team will not do any better.  

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

8 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Back on topic look at the loft / touch on this one - Has he been throwing deep like this all year and I missed it?

That’s the elite deep ball that he throws. Feathery bomb…if you will.

 

His deep ball touch reminds me some of Boomer Esiason. Just crazy good touch on balls down the field. 

[FootballZombie]

Getting a dub against a team your supposed to beat in the form of the 2 win Pats does not do much to change my outlook on this staff. I still think the team is painfully mid, and I have no desire to retain their services.

[Warhead36]

13 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

That’s the elite deep ball that he throws. Feathery bomb…if you will.

 

His deep ball touch reminds me some of Boomer Esiason. Just crazy good touch on balls down the field. 

His accuracy on the deep stuff has been a little off but he's starting to hit them. Now its up to his receivers to actually make some plays. That was a great throw but also lets give some credit to Dotson for making that catch. It wasn't super easy by any means.

 

The throws that really make me excited are some of those intermediate down the middle throws where he lasers it between defenders.

[RandyHolt]

At this point I think it'd be a mistake to jettison EB and make Sam learn his 4th playbook in 4 years. EB has earned a 2nd year with his recent tweaks to his game plan.  If a GM can't build around a Sam/EB pair I am happy to tell them to remain unemployed.