The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HogsVa7]

57 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I have no idea where Carr will go this offseason, but at least I'm happy that I'm not foolish enough to make definitive statements like I do. 

 

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I have no idea where Carr will go this offseason, but at least I'm happy that I'm not foolish enough to make definitive statements like I do. 

My bad man, I apologize if you took it that way. You didn't want Carr in the first place and I responded by saying what I said but some times I post like that cause we aren't talking face to face and I was just saying what I think would happen. I wasn't calling you out or anything so my bad man.

[HogsVa7]

19 minutes ago, The Rook said:

Things I like on team blogs: Insightful opinions, evaluations, explanations, descriptions 

 

Not so much:

"Hot Takes" (especially using definitive adjectives such as "must, definitely, absolutely. etc.).

 

Repeated statements on page after page AND topic after topic from same the poster,  Trust me, we have heard you, again and again and again - you HATE/LOVE it/him/them. 

 

Someone making a post for which you have a different opinion is NOT calling you out.  However, if they have quoted you, I realize that pretty much an invitation to debate/discussion.  Other people jumping in and it becomes "attempts to win the discussion" leading to the belittling of other members opinions, OR worse, belittling of the other members themselves.

 

 

Okay, I've had my burst from my edible.  I apologize, but I already know who hates/like Taylor and I just want to let you all know that a lot of us do. 

 

Y'all are smart, bring something new to the table, because this team (and this blog) needs it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

I apologize if I made you mad and don't agree of how I post but I post like we're talking face to face and I will post better since this is a message board. I can admit that. I explain myself of what I'm trying to say too much but it's not like what you think.  I know their is people on here that don't like me I'm assuming, but im not that guy trust me. I'll post better and that's it. I don't mean any harm so my bad man. I understand what you were saying but I'm not like that.

[stoshuaj]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Anyone buying he's still owner at start of 2023 season?

yup,  please don’t read that as a “want” or a “like” and no, I’m not from Missouri but ya gotta show me

Edited January 7, 2023 by stoshuaj

[The Rook]

1 hour ago, HogsVa7 said:

I apologize if I made you mad and don't agree of how I post but I post like we're talking face to face and I will post better since this is a message board. I can admit that. I explain myself of what I'm trying to say too much but it's not like what you think.  I know their is people on here that don't like me I'm assuming, but im not that guy trust me. I'll post better and that's it. I don't mean any harm so my bad man. I understand what you were saying but I'm not like that.

 

 

HV7, I want you to know I did NOT point my diatribe toward you or anyone specific.  Just a "howl at the moon" comment of the draining aspect of the same viewpoints, over and over and over.  From my viewpoint,  there are multiple posters on both sides of the "Heinicke discussion" who have to jump in again and again and again just to ... I don't know, what? Maybe defend their ground? Best the other view? Change the mind of the unchangeable? 

 

There are many posters on ES, who I enjoy even when I have a different idea/viewpoint.  However, redundancy can become static and this franchise (and blog) needs to move forward .

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Jumbo]

15 hours ago, Conn said:

@Thinking Skins I’m just going to tag you because this is obviously a post inspired by your recent thoughts. But I don’t mean it as a call-out post, and it’s not mean-spirited, I just can’t ignore what I’m reading.
 

Are we still not at the point as a society where we can just call a dumb opinion a dumb opinion? Not every opinion is created equal, period. Not every argument deserves the same intellectual scrutiny and respect. There is absolutely such a thing as a bad, poorly supported, incorrect, or even intellectually dishonest opinion. 

 

In a football sense, “Heinicke may be an NFL starter” is one of those opinions. Pick your poison of the above options, but it’s just bad and incorrect and it’s not really a matter of “agree to disagree”. It’s not disrespectful, or antithetical to message board culture, to judge a bad opinion on its merits and dismiss it once considered. I’ll repeat—all opinions are not created equal or deserving of the same consideration. Nobody is entitled to have others take their bad ideas seriously for any length of time.
 

 

i want to address this and my post is intended to be an fyi/fwiw. So please don't reply to this post in the thread as it would initiate an ongoing off-topic discussion. If you have questions you can pm me or use the feedback forum to ask and just signal me. 

 

This is a section from rule 5 : "We encourage spirited discussions and holding people accountable for what they post. This may be done in ways from funny to firm, including being castigating if reasonably merited. For example, calling someone "clueless" or calling some comment or post “stupid” when done in appropriate and justifiable context to the poster’s actual content is often allowable."

 

We put some cautions on this in the rule because many people won't get how to do it properly. But it means what it says. Read rule 5, and as with every rule, read the whole thing calmly (not when you're upset) and thoroughly.

 

[88Comrade2000]

After Sunday, this will just be Sam.

 

Carson will be cut and he likely retires. He mentally can’t handle being a backup and that’s all will be available. So, he’s likely to retire.

 

Taylor maybe gets a backup job? Think only Turner as OC would want him. Whether we resign him depends on if Turner is here. I doubt there’s a big market for him.

[Koolblue13]

Starting Howell is probably a mistake. He'll end up with some kind of crazy stats though, since we don't have a RB. 

 

I'll guess he'll get something like 24/47 310 1TD 1 Rush TD 3 Int 5 sacks, while we get blown out.

 

I do think it's our best chance this season to see some nice long balls. That's fun.

 

This offseason, I'm really hoping to sign a low buck FA like Brissett, who I think would be perfect. Then draft someone too. Let Howell be the lone hold over and clean the room out.

[Est.1974]

God I personally find the thought of a QB like Brissett coming here mildly depressing. Is that really the bar we are setting. 

[zCommander]

29 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

God I personally find the thought of a QB like Brissett coming here mildly depressing. Is that really the bar we are setting. 

 

@Koolblue13 must be off his meds again 🤣😂🤣

[Warhead36]

31 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

God I personally find the thought of a QB like Brissett coming here mildly depressing. Is that really the bar we are setting. 

Yeah for real. Can't believe people are pining for Jacoby freaking Brissett. Dude is the definition of mediocre(at best).

[samy316]

35 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

God I personally find the thought of a QB like Brissett coming here mildly depressing. Is that really the bar we are setting. 

Jimmy G didn’t want to come here last year via trade, and opted to get surgery to avoid being traded, which spooked teams from giving up a high draft pick for him.  Carr, if he’s smart would consider better options out there than the Commanders.  If it’s between us and the Jets, Carr will pick the Jets in a New York minute (pun intended).  After those two QB’s, you’re left with the rest of the other options, including Brissett.  We might not have a choice but to sign Brissett if/when all the better other options turn us down.

Edited January 7, 2023 by samy316

[Warhead36]

Just now, samy316 said:

Jimmy G didn’t want to come here last year via trade, and opted to get surgery to avoid a trade.  Carr, if he’s smart would consider better options out there than the Commanders.  If it’s between us and the Hets, Carr will pick the Jets in a New York minute (pun intended).  After those two QB’s, you’re left with the rest of the other options, including Brissett.  We might not have a choice but to sign Brissett if/when all the better other options turn us down.

Yeah until our ownership situation gets resolved we're no man's land and no FA worth anything decent is gonna want to come here.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think folks are excited about Brissett, like he’s going to come here, start and we’re going to be good.

 

A guy like Brissett to me represents exactly what I want in what is likely a lame duck season for our coach.  Bringing him in likely means, Wentz and Heinicke are sent packing.  You cant have a QB room with no vets.  He shouldn’t be too much of a threat to Howell and we shouldnt be too much of a threat to win much, unless Howell is the goods.

 

All that setting things up for the next regime in 2024 to either already have a franchise QB - Howell 🤞or a decent draft slot for the 2024 draft.

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

@Koolblue13 must be off his meds again 🤣😂🤣

 

44 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

God I personally find the thought of a QB like Brissett coming here mildly depressing. Is that really the bar we are setting. 

I think about it the same way that I think about Ron as a HC.

 

We were a garbage team for decades. Just terrible in every way. Under Ron, we're around a .500 team who plays meaningful football 3 straight years in december and either made or were close to making the playoffs. Guys want to resign deals and we've actually had players turn down contracts from actual good teams to be a part of our mediocre team.

 

Brissett is about as mediocre as possible. He'll only cost about $10 mil per. He won't win us any games, but won';t lose us any either. Stability at the position.

 

Hell, this season we've seen the QB not win us any games, but we've seen them lose us a bunch. Replace Heini/Wentz with a mediocre average stable QB like Brissett and we're in the playoffs this year.

 

Then we can resign everyone and fix everything else wrong, while being competitive and it doesn't stop us from drafting our next QB.

 

We could trad away picks or sign guys to huge contracts like the Broncos.                   

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah for real. Can't believe people are pining for Jacoby freaking Brissett. Dude is the definition of mediocre(at best).

Nobody is pining for Brissett. That's a ridiculous take.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Koolblue13

[samy316]

We have two options next year, roll with Sam Howell, or draft a QB in the 1st round.  Rolling with Howell is risky for Ron and Co., since they would theoretically have one year left to prove to the new ownership group that they are worthy of being extended.  The issue for Ron, is that he needs a playoff appearance minimum to convince the new regime, and it’s a tall order leaning on your 5th Round QB to get you there.  Ron’s other option is to swing big in the draft, and trade up for a franchise QB.  If we lose this Sunday, there’s a chance we could end up picking as high as 10th in the upcoming draft.  At 10th, it makes it easier to make a move to Pick 2, if you’re willing to part with draft capital.  The issue with that though, is that we don’t want Ron wasting future draft capital to save himself from being fired at the end of next year, and potentially screwing over the new regime with a lack of draft capital going forward.

 

We’re in a tough spot, because we need to hope that Ron doesn’t damage the future of the team going forward to save himself, but we also don’t want to go into next year with no shot at making the playoffs, and ending up in that 6-9 win territory we seem to be stuck in.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, samy316 said:

We have two options next year, roll with Sam Howell, or draft a QB in the 1st round.  Rolling with Howell is risky for Ron and Co., since they would theoretically have one year left to prove to the new ownership group that they are worthy of being extended.  The issue for Ron, is that he needs a playoff appearance minimum to convince the new regime, and it’s a tall order leaning on your 5th Round QB to get you there.  Ron’s other option is to swing big in the draft, and trade up for a franchise QB.  If we lose this Sunday, there’s a chance we could end up picking as high as 10th in the upcoming draft.  At 10th, it makes it easier to make a move to Pick 2, if you’re willing to part with draft capital.  The issue with that though, is that we don’t want Ron wasting future draft capital to save himself from being fired at the end of next year, and potentially screwing over the new regime with a lack of draft capital going forward.

 

We’re in a tough spot, because we need to hope that Ron doesn’t damage the future of the team going forward to save himself, but we also don’t want to go into next year with no shot at making the playoffs, and ending up in that 6-9 win territory we seem to be stuck in.

Yeah we're in a precarious position because of the new ownership. They might want to mandate no "win now sacrifice the future" type trades but what if the trade happens in like March and the new owner doesn't come in until April? 

 

I could also see the league disallowing any such major trades while the ownership situation is in flux, which might be in our best interest.

 

But at this point any year where we don't have any sort of franchise or potential franchise QB in place is just another wasted year.

[samy316]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah we're in a precarious position because of the new ownership. They might want to mandate no "win now sacrifice the future" type trades but what if the trade happens in like March and the new owner doesn't come in until April? 

 

I could also see the league disallowing any such major trades while the ownership situation is in flux, which might be in our best interest.

 

But at this point any year where we don't have any sort of franchise or potential franchise QB in place is just another wasted year.

Yes, definitely.  Until we have “the guy” at QB, we’re just twisting in the wind.

[88Comrade2000]

Ron wants to be coaching beyond 23. The only way he makes it to 24 is this:

 

1. No slow starts. Having a winning record or .500 throughout the season. Another slow start and he’s fired in season.

 

2. Make the playoffs and win a playoff game. This is the minimum.

 

 

So, to achieve that Ron will go the veteran route again. It will be a stopgap because the better qbs will avoid us, partly due to the ownership situation. Why come here with a likely lame duck coach.  Our best shot is singing someone to a prove it, incentive laden one year deal.   
 

The scary part is Ron could trade away picks/players on a veteran before a new owner takes over. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen.

 

I suspect the new owner will have a Gm type person ready to go and that person will then direct the remaining offseason and draft.  I think a permanent Gm won’t happen until after the draft.

 

2024 is the year.  Whatever qb we get is likely to only be here a year.

 

I know the Howell hive expects us to roll with him. I don’t unless Sam just plain beats the qb we bring in, in training camp.

[Koolblue13]

41 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah we're in a precarious position because of the new ownership. They might want to mandate no "win now sacrifice the future" type trades but what if the trade happens in like March and the new owner doesn't come in until April? 

 

I could also see the league disallowing any such major trades while the ownership situation is in flux, which might be in our best interest.

 

But at this point any year where we don't have any sort of franchise or potential franchise QB in place is just another wasted year.

and what do you suggest?

[samy316]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Ron wants to be coaching beyond 23. The only way he makes it to 24 is this:

 

1. No slow starts. Having a winning record or .500 throughout the season. Another slow start and he’s fired in season.

 

2. Make the playoffs and win a playoff game. This is the minimum.

 

 

So, to achieve that Ron will go the veteran route again. It will be a stopgap because the better qbs will avoid us, partly due to the ownership situation. Why come here with a likely lame duck coach.  Our best shot is singing someone to a prove it, incentive laden one year deal.   
 

The scary part is Ron could trade away picks/players on a veteran before a new owner takes over. Let’s hope that doesn’t happen.

 

I suspect the new owner will have a Gm type person ready to go and that person will then direct the remaining offseason and draft.  I think a permanent Gm won’t happen until after the draft.

 

2024 is the year.  Whatever qb we get is likely to only be here a year.

 

I know the Howell hive expects us to roll with him. I don’t unless Sam just plain beats the qb we bring in, in training camp.

 

The problem with that is we're going to be picking from the scrap heap during free agency.  No viable, decent QB will want to come here.  The ownership question might be resolved around the time FA begins, but the stink of this organization, and our spending ability will result in better QB's considering teams other than WSH.  I would be shocked if Carr or Jimmy G. even gave this FO the time of day to do an interview.  They both might laugh and hang up the phone when we come calling.  I forgot that Brady will also be an FA this offseason, and he's going to be highly coveted too.  I see us getting either Mayfield or Brissett, and having Howell as a backup behind either.  If we get Mayfield, we should consider ourselves lucky.  Mayfield might be the only QB available in FA that can get Ron a wildcard spot next year.  He'll probably come in at a reasonable price too.  It would allow us to resign Payne.

Edited January 7, 2023 by samy316

[FootballZombie]

We just watched this roster carry the absolute worst QB play in the NFL to a near playoff birth. You replace that with anything, you'll get at least the same result. You replace that with semi-competence and you'll have a better one.

 

Unless you expect a lame duck regime to collect assets for a future they are not part of, our draft situation next year will not be any better than it is this year. The surrounding roster is too good to lock in a super high draft pick. We can go out and get the bummiest bum in bum-town, we'd just be repeating this season.

 

If the big fish don't want to come, fine. I'm still taking the swing and making them tell me "no" before swimming in the reduced price bin.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

and what do you suggest?

In the other thread, I worked under the assumption that we'd have a new owner in place sometime this off season. My hope is that the new owner mandates that Rivera not make any sort of win now move. Any GM we get would likely not be able to impact this draft as much since most of the draft prep will have already been done, but if they really like a QB prospect I'm fine with trading up.

 

The nightmare scenario is Rivera making some kind of crazy trade while the ownership stuff is still being resolved. But now that I think about it, I do believe the league wouldn't allow us to make any sort of major moves like that. Trading future draft capital is something a new owner(with a presumed new front office) would want some kind of say on.

 

So my suggestion would be to just roll with Howell and a super low cost vet unless by some miracle we get the ownership stuff resolved super early and a new GM is okay with making a trade up for a QB(and again this is assuming we're even in a position to trade, who knows we might end up winning tomorrow and picking like 17th or something "lolol.")

 

But it really is a mess of a situation.

[Skinsinparadise]

More Logan Paulsen

 

He'd move on from Heinicke because as he calls it he's a celebrity backup and he doesn't like the idea of celebrity backups because they end up becoming distractions.

 

Keim another podcast.

 

A.  Players like what they've seen from Howell.  Nice touch on his throws.  Made a back shoulder throw in practice which they haven't seen from the other 2 QBs.

 

B.  The concern-work in progress with Howell is his footwork -- in Carolina coaches thought highly of him but thought his footwork can be a bit lazy, here its about matching  the steps to the throwing concepts.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[samy316]

I should add that the Jets will be the team that gets tied to every FA QB this offseason.  They will be the team that gets media hype once they sign either Carr of Jimmy G.  The Jets have a roster that will attract any FA QB from Brady to Carr to Jimmy G.  After the Jets, I see Miami being a desirable location, if Tua doesn't pan out.  Rumor is that Brady was headed there after the 2019 season before he ended up in Tampa Bay.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

just roll with Howell and a super low cost vet

So you're both "pining" for a QB like Brissett and dissing people who are mentioning him. 

 

Got it.