The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

This is killer entertaining they interview some of our players about him

 

 

[“Misdirection”]

If a QB they covet falls to their pick in the 1st or 2nd, they’ll take him. Wentz simply means they will not trade up for one now. 
 

That said, I would bet that we don’t take a QB until the 4th or later. Todays players are sensitive. Wentz, Rodgers, Griffin, etc. drafting QBs high when you have someone who is supposed to be “the guy”, has proven to destabilize things in multiple situations. If we intend to compete for championships anytime soon, Wentz will be the guy. Develop a plan and stick to it. 
 

Use the 1st and 2nd to build around him. Had the packers taken a WR instead of Jordan Love, this Rodgers saga would’ve never happened, and perhaps they even win another title by now. Also appears they can’t recoup the cost of what they drafted Love for. Waste of resources.

 

Heinicke is the perfect backup here. He’s not an unknown quantity that fans will constantly call for because of some untapped potential. Both the team and the fans know who he is. He is respected and appreciated for what he is, and his style of play, especially in relief when they haven’t gameplanned for his weaknesses, can win games. Not to mention, he’s cheap! 
 

 

 

 

 

[Stone Cold]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I doubt the first round. Breer is pretty connected too so Keim isn’t on an island here as far as his sources 

 

 

Just a gut feel, but we’re grabbing one of the lot of QBs with our 2d.  I see RR hedging the bet on wentz and taking a guy with a starters ceiling.  
Wentz’ history of pouting about draft picks is just that…history.  If wentz wants to play football on a starters salary, he better ball this season or he’ll be looking at being a back up and on his fourth team in four years.  that’s motivation right there if he needed any.  
All this talk I’m doin about drafting a QB and honestly, now with wentz, if dogs are available with our early pics, I would grab as many ball hawks and playmakers i could

Edited March 11, 2022 by Stone Cold

[RWJ]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I doubt the first round. Breer is pretty connected too so Keim isn’t on an island here as far as his sources 

 

 

With Wentz the best fit would be Pickett. He also has the size but not as tall or weigh as much as Wentz.   Wouldn't you say?  The next QB that seems like Wentz would be Ridder.  Just trying to connect dots.  LOL

[kingdaddy]

20 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t hate TH. But I know what he is. I seriously don’t think you do.  

 

How is my 2012 comparison not absolutely the same?  Rex was the opening day starter and played most of the 2011 season.  TH wasn’t the opening day starter,  it played most of the 2021 season.  

 

They traded up to get Griffin. We traded to get Wentz.

 

They picked Cousins in the 4th.  That’s after the team used a first (and 2 additional firsts and a second) to get Griffin.  Why? Because they needed a third QB and they wanted a better option than Grossman.  And the Shanahans really likes Grossman.  So rhey used a second pick in the same draft on a QB who was definitively going to be a backup.  

Rex went to 3rd string then off the team. Cousins was the backup in 2012 - 2014 until he got the starting job in 2015. He played some when Griffin was hurt. 
 

The differnce this time is they don’t have the definitive starter long term on the team. Wentz is basically on a one year prove-it deal.  If he souls himself, he can be released.  And that means maybe they pick a second QB higher.  Maybe not.  We’ll see.
 

They have to have 3 QBs on the roster.  Ron said he wants a veteran, another veteran and the chance at a rookie.  That’s the quote he gave Standig.  
 

They actually need 2 more QBs on the team because you need 4 for camp.

 

Most likely 1 is a draft pick, I think end of second round or trade back to third round, and one is an UDFA who either gets cut after camp or ends up on the practice squad.

 

And quite frankly, if they draft a guy in the second or third round it’s not unfathomable that player beats out TH for the backup job.

 

Again, a 4th round rookie beat out Rex Grossman in 2012 and then started a game during a playoff run.  And Rex was the starter going into 2011.  Rex knew the system, he came with Kyle from Houston.  Not even a backup who “got a field promotion” to quote Mayhew.  

Cousins was picked because Shanahan loved him from coaching the senior bowl. He didn't even want to move up and take RGlll but Snyder made him do it. They did not draft Cousins because they needed a good backup....no one does that. Teams draft non-starting QB's to develop them and see what they amount to....backups are guys who are vets that know the league and won't complain or guys who are being developed behind a legit starter. Cousins was drafted because Shanahan liked him from the senior bowl and actually thought he was a better pro prospect then RGlll was....he was right.

As for TH, anything some of us say about him is met with illogical rips from you. You even go as far as naming us in other posts to mock us. We know what TH is and know he's not the franchise QB but we give him respect for what he did this past season. 

Your idea that the we need to draft a QB just to improve our backup QB situation over TH is just plain ridiculous....teams don't think that way. If we draft a QB it will be as a project or with the hope that he can be a future franchise QB. 

I seriously can't believe you think we'll draft a QB just to get a better backup than TH is......they could sign available FA's to be that if they didn't like TH. 

[Going Commando]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is killer entertaining they interview some of our players about him

 

That's awesome.  He's a huge playmaker, but that 2017 form might be gone for good.  He's one of the great "what ifs" of the last 10 years like Andrew Luck and DeShaun Watson and RGIII. 

 

It would be poetic if he got his career back on track here.

 

We've got to get some dudes on the OL.  He has a very chaotic style in the pocket and we need guys who can hold blocks forever.

[kingdaddy]

34 minutes ago, Stone Cold said:

Just a gut feel, but we’re grabbing one of the lot of QBs with our 2d.  I see RR hedging the bet on wentz and taking a guy with a starters ceiling.  
Wentz’ history of pouting about draft picks is just that…history.  If wentz wants to play football on a starters salary, he better ball this season or he’ll be looking at being a back up and on his fourth team in four years.  that’s motivation right there if he needed any.  
All this talk I’m doin about drafting a QB and honestly, now with wentz, if dogs are available with our early pics, I would grab as many ball hawks and playmakers i could

Yeah, it feels like this roll of the dice puts us "all in" on Wentz. Roll with him and build the defense as best we can to see how we can build around him, at least for this season. Why pick a QB early at the expense of adding elsewhere when we just spent picks on getting Wentz? Either we believe in Wentz or we don't? 

[zCommander]

47 minutes ago, Stone Cold said:

Just a gut feel, but we’re grabbing one of the lot of QBs with our 2nd.

 

I wouldn't. This draft is stacked with WR, TE, OL, etc. You have to go that route with your 1st and 2nd pick, don't have a 3rd now. Build around Wentz. That should be the game plan. He is not a one year rental. If we win only 5 games with him and he was the reason that happened then yes can his ass. Go with a better QB class next year instead. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by zCommander

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

That's awesome.  He's a huge playmaker, but that 2017 form might be gone for good.  He's one of the great "what ifs" of the last 10 years like Andrew Luck and DeShaun Watson and RGIII. 

 

It would be poetic if he got his career back on track here.

 

We've got to get some dudes on the OL.  He has a very chaotic style in the pocket and we need guys who can hold blocks forever.

Yeah agree.  it’s not like he hasn’t been mostly good since but not to that level great. The YouTube segment I link below is entertaining too, in one segment of it a player goes once the great veteran QBs retire, Wentz will be that next great one to replace those legends.

 

I’ve been watching Wentz some tonight. His arm is beyond special, it’s elite. The velocity and his deep ball, wow.  Even his velocity off of his back foot, wow.  He can still move and run well, dodges pressure really well but not like in his peak years.
 

Plays too much hero ball. Accuracy is inconsistent. Presses some when things go awry and can make some dumb decisions in that context. Watching him mic’d up in multiple games he’s super animated on the field, a lot of fun on that front.

 

Good at selling play action, play fakes, draw plays, RPOs.  Between that and his ability to stretch the field, I think he will help the run game 

 

Aside from the deep ball his niche is intermediate throws in between the numbers so receivers who thrive on seam routes, digs, etc should do really well with him.

 

Adding a killer Z receiver among other things would help.

 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

TE's.....get em and they will feast under Wentz. He's a better QB with solid TE's then he is with WR's from what I've seen. 

[SoCalSkins]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is killer entertaining they interview some of our players about him

 

 

How can you watch that and not be pumped up? We are going to shock the world this year. 

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is killer entertaining they interview some of our players about him

 

 

That was awesome. I am so much more excited today then I was yesterday. 

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

TE's.....get em and they will feast under Wentz. He's a better QB with solid TE's then he is with WR's from what I've seen. 

He made Ertz his top receiver in Philly, because their WRs sucked ass.

[88Comrade2000]

Until Wentz shows it; he mentally can’t handle a qb that performs well or can take his job.

He resented the success Foles had. Foles won a SuperBowl and Foles took them to playoffs the next year; when he subbed.

 

He didn’t like they drafted Hurts and that contributed to his his poor 2020 season that saw him get benched.

 

Wentz won’t like if we draft someone that could be an eventual starter. If we draft someone; it’s just a backup to replace Taylor in Rounds 5-7. Someone not threatening to Wentz’s fragile mind.

 

Remember; he still has to mentally process being dumped from the Colts.

I am sure he’s shocked at what happened in Indy.

 

Does that fuel him to want to show Indy and Philly? Or does it mentally affect him that he’s useless here and plays worse.

 

We don’t know if he’s mentally going to be any better here.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

TE's.....get em and they will feast under Wentz. He's a better QB with solid TE's then he is with WR's from what I've seen. 

I expect us to draft one or get one in FA.  We may need another WR though too.

[Conn]

Well, they’ve got over a month to evaluate Wentz’s mental state and meet him and see if he’s learned to react better to adversity. They’ve got some time to

figure out if they think they can truly invest in him being “the guy” before they have to decide whether to draft anyone or not. 

[The Sisko]

This move strikes me as tankathon part three in which a team that both desperately needs a real QB and needs to give the appearance that they’re addressing the position checks those boxes with a guy they know will still give them a decent draft position next year when there will hopefully be better QB options in the draft. I could get with it if they hadn’t given up as much as they did. Most any schlep would do to meet the objectives listed in my first run on sentence. Decent strategy. Poor execution by overpaying. 

[Koolblue13]

We can definitely win a Superbowl with Wentz.

 

We can definitely have a losing season with Wentz.

 

If there is one thing that's definitely true, it'll be exciting, cause Wentz is a wild football player.

 

He plays a lot like early Heinicke. Trying to make a play every play. If we can calm him down, like we did with Tays, there is a ton of upside.

 

If him and McLaurin bond, the sky is the limit and Terry will definitely be going to the probowl. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

He's an alpha and a Ron Rivera type of guy.  Palpable superstar aura on the field with a highly physical playing style.  Reputation of being the leader in Utah's locker room--two time team captain.  Parents were Navy.  I think he's the kind of tone setter we're looking for.

 

 

Cool.  I know his on field resume.  I haven't bothered to look at the off field stuff.  But I have for Dean.

 

12 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Comparing him to Dean, I would say Dean stays locked in better and he's a more aggressive and instinctive blitzer.  Lloyd is bigger and has true blow-back power and he's a lot more natural at playing the ball in coverage so he gives you both more playmaking in your middle zones/coverage versatility plus more thumping.  But Dean would be such a great fit here personality-wise.  You love his instincts and you love his blitzing ability plus he has the capacity to singe cover slots too.

 

I would say if we stay at 11, then Lloyd.  But if we trade down, Dean would be perfect.  Dean + a 3rd feels like enough to tip the scales in his favor over just Lloyd for me.

 

I love that Dean wants to be the be all and end all play caller-QB on the field.

 

Some think Lloyd's 4.7 in the 40 might drop him some in the first round.  Some think Dean's short arms -- and also an expected decent but not blazing speed a his pro day (will see) also might drop him some in the first round. 

 

you got me if so.  But my point is if they equally like both (granted Llloyd is the more natural Mike as for his build) if there is something to that dynamic of them perhaps dropping a little, I wonder if they trade down and risk maybe losing one but being confident they get one of the two?

Edited March 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

I was initially frustrated at the picks we traded away. Less so now the dust has settled. Always thought the move for Wentz was worth a shot. We can live without the 3rd rounder this year. 
 

I’ll consider the merit of that 2023 pick as the season progresses.

 

I’d also add that we should step back and not judge the move in isolation. The front office need to back the trade up with a strong free agency period and draft. Let’s see what they do.

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Cool.  I know his on field resume.  I haven't bothered to look at the off field stuff.  But I have for Dean.

 

 

I love that Dean wants to be the be all and end all play caller-QB on the field.

 

Some think Lloyd's 4.7 in the 40 might drop him some in the first round.  Some think Dean's short arms -- and also an expected decent but not blazing speed a his pro day (will see) also might drop him some in the first round. 

 

you got me if so.  But my point is if they equally like both (granted Llloyd is the more natural Mike as for his build) if there is something to that dynamic of them perhaps dropping a little, I wonder if they trade down and risk maybe losing one but being confident they get one of the two?

Lloyd has the size and smarts and as a former safety, solid coverage skills and understanding of play concepts. I love Dean's fire and speed, but im weary of taking guys from that stacked defense who aren't Davis. It was just too easy for them.

 

Lloyd has a chance to be that next great MLB you build around. Dean could be great in that Collins role, but not sure he has that immediate impact and he kinda plays the same position as Davis IMO. 

 

After Lloyd, who won't get past the Eagles, I'd wait until 47 and be really content with our options. 

 

Lloyd>DB>Oline at 11.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Conn said:

Well, they’ve got over a month to evaluate Wentz’s mental state and meet him and see if he’s learned to react better to adversity. They’ve got some time to

figure out if they think they can truly invest in him being “the guy” before they have to decide whether to draft anyone or not. 

 

Just listened to another Colts reporter on 980.   lol, it reminded me some of the Eagles reporter on Sheehan's show yesterday where the reporter wasn't going full on trashing, giving a pretty balanced take but Sheehan pushed to move it negative.   I like Sheehan but when he has a bent he really pushes it.   Though I'll give him he backed off some at the end.

 

The Colts reporter -- and this I believe was the most negative one who wrote the initial article about it on the Athletic

 

A.  It wasn't a unaninmous decision for the Colts to get rid of Carson

 

B.  He knows some players who loved Wentz and some not so much.   And the ones who didn't it was more about not believing in him as a player than having issue with his personality

 

C.  Carson isn't a bad guy from what he heard. 

 

D.  Not the easiest to coach but he's heard the same about other QBs.

 

E.  Very tough dude.  Played on two ankle sprain among other things

 

F.  You can make a case for both sides of the arguments as for them getting rid of Carson.  Carson had some ups and down.  Said its a bit of a rollar coaster ride with him.  Implied he makes the hard plays look easy, and sometimes the easy look hard.

 

G.  If I had to go with a takeaway with their issue with his play is that he's focused on hero ball and that scares them in games -- take the check down in the flat versus forcing the ball.

 

H.  Got more blame than he probably deserved for the season's end.  O line played poorly in the home stretch.  Not much at receiver and TE.

 

I. The hurt from the loss in Jacksonville loss clinched that they didn't want to run it back with him

 

J.  Sheehan via his tone tried to get him to criticize the compensation of the deal.  The reporter said he was surprised they got so much.  But he doesn't fault this team for doing it, he sees what they see in him and gets it.

 

K.  He thinks Wentz could play better in Washington considering his better weapons.  Then he waffles on this later with the whole Frank Reich gets him and Pittman is a good receiver, etc.  So I'll sum this up that he isn't sure.  But Sheehan did lead the witness on this.

 

L.  Should be fun when Indy plays the Colts next season

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Lloyd has the size and smarts and as a former safety, solid coverage skills and understanding of play concepts. I love Dean's fire and speed, but im weary of taking guys from that stacked defense who aren't Davis. It was just too easy for them.

 

Lloyd has a chance to be that next great MLB you build around. Dean could be great in that Collins role, but not sure he has that immediate impact and he kinda plays the same position as Davis IMO. 

 

After Lloyd, who won't get past the Eagles, I'd wait until 47 and be really content with our options. 

 

Lloyd>DB>Oline at 11.

 

I like Lloyd.

 

As for Dean i want to see what he runs in his pro day.   You can see him aggressively QBing the defense when you watch him.  Alpha type leader. 4.0 GPA mechanical engineer major.  Plays bigger than his size.  Really good pass rusher,  Really good in coverage.  But if he runs a pedesrian 40 like Lloyd did, it would turn me off.  I can deal with it with Llloyd because of his size. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

the other side…

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Sheehan right now trash the deal some more and he says its purely based on the Eagles and Colts deciding to get rid of him.  Not to pick on him but he brings home that if you are locked on then your mind won't change.  He's not the only one who does this.  And I just pick on him because I like his show and like him.  And I find it odd because I know his buddy Chris Cooley worshipped Wentz.  And he tends to trust Cooley's take over anyone else.  Granted that was Cooley in the past, got no idea what he thinks of him now. 

 

In his own interviews on his own shows, he's heard.

 

A.  An Eagles reporter saying it was Wentz who wanted to leave -- not the Eagles wanting to dumping him.  The Eagles according to the reporter he had on his show said the Eagles tried to even talk Wentz into staying.

 

B.  The Colts reporter just now said it wasn't a unaninmous decision to move on from Wentz.

 

If he didn't believe them then fine but why not then ask some follow up questions on that point if your whole criticism is going to hang on the Eagles and Colts dumped him, case closed?  Considering there is some ambiguity on that specific point?

 

 

More Sheehan.  He checked with some in the know with the team.

 

They think Wentz is an upgrade.  They think they got the right roster and right schedule to have a double digit win season.  When you combine that with the rebrand, they know they need a good season.  

 

They do think Covid derailed their season last year.   This season with better circumstance and a better QB should yield some good results.

 

Personally, I don't think they are wrong.  

Edited March 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

This is a great watch. Might watch the entire game later. The top two QB options for us going head to head.