All things defense

[The Rook]

50 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Rivera has talked about Butler playing in nickel packages.  What situations call for three safeties versus three corners?  In other words, what do you gain by having two corners and McCain, Curl, and Butler versus Jackson Fuller, St Juste, Curl, McCain/Butler?

 

I think the idea is that there will be players on the field who are hybrid CB/Safety - such as McCain, Butler and even Curl.  From the very beginning, it has been a trademark of Coach Rivera to have players with diverse abilities to be able to play different positions.

 

🤔We'll see.

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

Rivera has talked about Butler playing in nickel packages.  What situations call for three safeties versus three corners?  In other words, what do you gain by having two corners and McCain, Curl, and Butler versus Jackson Fuller, St Juste, Curl, McCain/Butler?

They kindof moved to an alternate base of 4-2-5 last year with 3 safeties.  Kurl, Collins and McCain, with Collins playing that infamous “Buffalo Nickel.”

 

Then when they truely went “nickel” they would pull a safety and play another DB.  
 

St. Juice will be interesting to watch this off season.  Because in theory he’s better on the outside.  But Fuller was also better outside also.  So we’ll see how that plays out.

 

I think you’re going to see them in a typical 4-3-4 VERY rarely.  They like doing the 4-2-5 with 3 safeties more because it helps with pass coverage.  But in theory that extra safety is also stout against the run. 
 

My guess is your only see the 4-3 when you have a 2WR/ 2 TE/RB formation on the opposing offense.  

[Zim489]

 

I keep looking at these charts and man theres just no rhyme and reason to team success. Some elite teams have great run defense. Some god awful teams have great run defense. Doesnt look like it takes you anywhere 

[FLSkinz83]

As of right now, I'm very confident in what the offense will do, but very concerned about this defense.

 

A mostly bad defense lost Collins, Ioaniddis and Settle...replaced them with Mathis and Obada.    Not good enough.  As of now.

[NYSkins21]

27 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

As of right now, I'm very confident in what the offense will do, but very concerned about this defense.

 

A mostly bad defense lost Collins, Ioaniddis and Settle...replaced them with Mathis and Obada.    Not good enough.  As of now.

What does that tell you about Collins, Ion and Settle?

 

Not to mention we did seem to get things going in the 2nd half of the season. Other factors.... Jamin, Fuller, WillJack3, CY and others in second year or back healthy. I believe we're deeper now than we were last year talent-wise. Have faith my brotha.

[Zim489]

Im not concerned about losing Collins and the Dlineman. Collins was a liability in coverage and was heavily shelled by the coaching staff. Im more concerned that they did nothing with the coverage over the middle of the field. The LBs still cant cover the easy plays for the QB. 

[FLSkinz83]

19 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

What does that tell you about Collins, Ion and Settle?

 

Not to mention we did seem to get things going in the 2nd half of the season. Other factors.... Jamin, Fuller, WillJack3, CY and others in second year or back healthy. I believe we're deeper now than we were last year talent-wise. Have faith my brotha.

 

It tells me we have a lousy D-Line coach.   And we played better when Collins was moved to the Buffalo Nickel.    

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

 

I keep looking at these charts and man theres just no rhyme and reason to team success. Some elite teams have great run defense. Some god awful teams have great run defense. Doesnt look like it takes you anywhere 

This is why analytics in football can be somewhat tricky.  Because there is so much going on, and context is so important.

 

Yards per overall rush attempt might be important, and might not be.

 

However, if you're looking at rushing defense, there are really 2 types of plays where it is important: 1st downs and 3rd/4th and short.

 

If you can't stop the run on first downs, and even more specifically in close games, then that is a real problem because you can allow the offense into very manageable 2nd downs, where the defense is at a disadvantage.  

 

Also, if you are constantly giving up 3 yards on 3rd and 2, that's bad also. You never get off the field.  But analytically, that doesn't show up in yards per carry against, because it could just be a 3 yard run on a short yardage situation.  It won't stick out, it might actually help the overall number. 

 

There are also in-game and in-season situations. If you are a REALLY piss poor pass defense, then teams won't bother to try and run on you, because passing is more efficient.

 

With our schedule last year, we faced so many top-end QBs, we really weren't run on much because that's not really what the teams did. 

 

I know this post is kindof disjointed, but as with a lot of things in football, the analytics can be interesting, but at times can be misleading.  There is SO much context.

 

I've always viewed it this way:  You can't get gashed on the ground on early downs.  Doesn't matter what the statistics say, if you are giving up a lot of rushing yards on first down, that's going to lead to problems no matter what, in a couple of different ways:

 

1. You have to compensate, bringing additional help to stop the run on early downs, which opens up the pass game, and puts the defense in no-mans-land in terms of how to attack the offense

2. If you do give up 4+ yards, you open the entire playbook to the offense on second down.

 

Knowing we're not playing 1980's style of football anymore, you don't need to build the entire defense around stopping the run. Stopping the pass is more important.  But you have to be able to at least hold serve on early downs, or else you're teetering on the edge of getting absolutely obliterated in every game.

1 hour ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

It tells me we have a lousy D-Line coach.   And we played better when Collins was moved to the Buffalo Nickel.    

I don't know if he was lousy or not, but a lot of folks thought if there was one place where there could be a change, that was it.  

 

That said, Matt I. never really regained form after his injury, and the reporting was he wasn't thrilled with the techniques he was being asked to use.  Settle only played 18% of snaps.  He wasn't seen as all that important.  

 

Jack made a HUGE mistake early in the season playing Collins at safety and basically benching Kurl.  That's on him.  He has to own that because it was stupid and everybody knew it was stupid.  

 

I do think with a few new faces, things might be better, though.  That DL just never met expectations, under multiple coaching staffs.  They needed to change it up. 

 

So we'll see.  

[Warhead36]

I'm not sure the DL coach is lousy. Allen had a Pro Bowl year. Payne played really well. Young regressed but I put that more on him not doing the work between his first and second seasons.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

Im not concerned about losing Collins and the Dlineman. Collins was a liability in coverage and was heavily shelled by the coaching staff. Im more concerned that they did nothing with the coverage over the middle of the field. The LBs still cant cover the easy plays for the QB. 

I think what you're going to see is when the offense goes 11 personnel, we will always be in either nickel or big nickel with 3 safeties on the field.  Holcomb and Davis should be ok in those sets.

 

I'm curious what they will do when offenses go 12 personnel.  With 2 TEs on the field, do they still match up with big nickel or do they flip and play base with 3 LBs.  I think @MartinC pointed out we played with 3 LBs on the field for a grand total of 60 snaps the entire year last year.  

 

It could be even less this year.  

 

It feels like to me Ron and Jack are just throwing away the LB spot and moving on.  They just don't seem to care about it at all.  Odd for 2 former LBs.  

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm not sure the DL coach is lousy. Allen had a Pro Bowl year. Payne played really well. Young regressed but I put that more on him not doing the work between his first and second seasons.

There were a lot of reports some of the players REALLY didn't mesh well with him.  Early on, I know Jon Allen didn't, Matt I didn't.  I don't know about Payne.  

 

I think Jon Allen came around, but I don't know who else did.  JP has talked a lot about this.  

 

I thought they would change things up at this coaching spot, but they didn't.  Which is very interesting.  

[Warhead36]

We're not gonna be in formations requiring more than 2 LBs most of the time. 4-3 is kind of dead at this point, its really more of a 4-2 with either an extra CB or extra S and it looks like we'll be going with the extra S.

[Koolblue13]

We'll probably see more 5-1-5, than 434.

[Ball Security]

Galdi has some good clips from the JDR interview with Julie Donaldson.  It was in his Monday’s podcast.

 

Lots if excuses last year.  But there is potential for big improvements.  

JDR stated some DB absences in OTAs contributed to the slow start.  We heard about Chase and Sweat, but evidently some secondary guys missed out.  He came across as excited by the change in commitment this offseason.

 

It’s a make or break season for JDR.

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

big nickel with 3 safeties on the field

Im tired of hearing about this buffalo nickel lol. If the team is concerned about coverage they need to put another CB on the field. Its sounds like they keep trying to do both things adequately at once instead of trying to do one thing great. 

 

Also the buffalo nickel isnt going to help much to help much with the over the middle of the field coverage infront of the safeties thats occupied by the LBs. The easy pitches catches 

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

4-3 is kind of dead at this poin

Teams are still sticking to that the run game matters. Get LBs that can run and cover and you can stick in base all the time and not worry about getting your small nickel corner getting swallowed up by a pulling guard out of 11 personnel 

[HigSkin]

This is interesting from Peter King about Sweat....

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/05/09/jets-draft-nfl-fmia-peter-king/?cid=fmiatw

 

I’m not a fan of grading drafts, as you know. For perspective, three years ago, the fourth, 10th and 26th picks in the first round were Clelin Ferrell, Devin Bush and Montez Sweat, and only Sweat had his fifth-year option exercised by his team this spring. Projecting GREAT DRAFTS!!!!! a week after they happen is fool’s gold. 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

This is interesting from Peter King about Sweat....

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/05/09/jets-draft-nfl-fmia-peter-king/?cid=fmiatw

 

I’m not a fan of grading drafts, as you know. For perspective, three years ago, the fourth, 10th and 26th picks in the first round were Clelin Ferrell, Devin Bush and Montez Sweat, and only Sweat had his fifth-year option exercised by his team this spring. Projecting GREAT DRAFTS!!!!! a week after they happen is fool’s gold. 

Well EVERYONE knew Ferrell was a massive reach.  Bush got hurt early, bad luck.

[RWJ]

 

 

 

[bird_1972]

11 hours ago, RWJ said:

 

 

 

 

If we can get even above-average production from Sweat/Young and Allen continues his progress, imagine how good the DL will be.

 

I still hold out hope that our 7th rounder from last year (Shaka Toney) can come in and play situational pass rusher. His tape from Penn State was pretty impressive and he gets great bend around the edge.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

It sure would be nice if all of the potential and hype of this defense would finally come to fruition. I think the offense has a chance of being really good in 2022. Add a good defense and maybe we can all have a great season and be happy for once.

[bird_1972]

I would be happy to have this D as top 15. Elite would be a dream. 

 

But a top 15 D with an O that can score 5 more pts per game with a legit QB and better weapons could net us a winning season and a shot at the playoffs, especially with our schedule.

[Forever A Redskin]

10 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

I would be happy to have this D as top 15. Elite would be a dream. 

 

But a top 15 D with an O that can score 5 more pts per game with a legit QB and better weapons could net us a winning season and a shot at the playoffs, especially with our schedule.

 

I don't understand how the same defense from two years ago, with way more talent wouldn't return to form.

 

I fully expect top 10. With a huge uptick in sacks/pressures due to a combination of player development & playing with a lead more often.

 

I don't want to hear any excuses about how an entire defense sucks because a couple players didn't show up for the first week of OTAs. 

 

I want to see Chase and Montez eat, Allen continue his dominance. And situational players like Mathis and Toney combine for 5 sacks.

 

My wonder is what we will see scheme wise. More buffalo? Was the lack of running base 4-3 due to not having the personnel? How much man vs zone will we run? And who will be starting outside vs in the slot (does St.Juste emerge?).

 

Icing on the cake is if we hit on one of our UDFA or our 7th rounder Holmes. 

[bird_1972]

1 hour ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

I don't understand how the same defense from two years ago, with way more talent wouldn't return to form.

 

I fully expect top 10. With a huge uptick in sacks/pressures due to a combination of player development & playing with a lead more often.

 

I don't want to hear any excuses about how an entire defense sucks because a couple players didn't show up for the first week of OTAs. 

 

I want to see Chase and Montez eat, Allen continue his dominance. And situational players like Mathis and Toney combine for 5 sacks.

 

My wonder is what we will see scheme wise. More buffalo? Was the lack of running base 4-3 due to not having the personnel? How much man vs zone will we run? And who will be starting outside vs in the slot (does St.Juste emerge?).

 

Icing on the cake is if we hit on one of our UDFA or our 7th rounder Holmes. 

 

With the talent on the roster if this D doesn't at least get into the top 15, it falls on the coaches.

[Mooka]

2 hours ago, Forever A Redskin said:

I don't understand how the same defense from two years ago, with way more talent wouldn't return to form.

 

We overrated the talent. Our D got torched by most of the good offenses/QBs we faced 

 

Despite our D-Line of first rounders we don't even have a single double-digit sack guy on the roster. 

 

Our offense has to produce and allow the D to make plays. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

If we can get even above-average production from Sweat/Young and Allen continues his progress, imagine how good the DL will be.

I don’t want average from that group.  
 

Sweat was a 1st round pick and Young was the second overall pick.

 

Average is not good enough. 
 

(I get Young is coming g off an injury and so you have to take that into consideration.)

[bird_1972]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t want average from that group.  
 

Sweat was a 1st round pick and Young was the second overall pick.

 

Average is not good enough. 
 

(I get Young is coming g off an injury and so you have to take that into consideration.)

 

I said above-average, not average. But i understand your point. With a DL made up of all 1st rounders, one of which was taken #2 overall in the draft, we need to get a lot more out of them than what we saw last year. 

 

I hope the play from the ends was a slump and I'm encouraged with Allen stepping up. Keeping fingers crossed.