What does “protest” mean at this point?

[Destino]

Reading the news it seems that simply by declaring that you and your friends are protesting something, you’re apparently allowed to do whatever the hell you want.  Have a problem with anything at all… let’s say dairy?  Block a road, any road you like,  and shout about it.  Think Trump is a hero?  Get your proud boyfriends, grab some weapons, dress up real tough-like and walk around randomly harassing anyone you see.  Maybe really let your hair down and bear spray some folks that disagree with you.  Don’t like masks?  Harass patients entering a hospital and threaten some teachers.  
 

so does protest just mean “be an abusive asshole without the usual consequences” so long as you get maybe three or more people and one of them remembers to bring a flag or a sign? 

[Larry]

Yep. That's what it means. 

[tshile]

It means:

you can do whatever you want if I agree with you on what you’re protesting. But you can’t do anything if I don’t agree with you. 
 

 

it’s obnoxious. Generally speaking discussing anything contentious is obnoxious these days. People lack the ability to be objective, to control their emotions, to think critically, to be empathetic, or otherwise try to put themselves in the shoes of someone they disagree with to consider if maybe there’s another way of viewing things. 
 

we’re broken in many ways. But ultimately our biggest problem is we have a ton of adults that don’t understand what it means to behave like an adult. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

It means ultra-white, left coast Bernie Bros hijacking Portland BLM protests so they can build “autonomous zones” and throw milkshakes at cops for six months.

[Renegade7]

Is protesting for stupid **** a recent phenomenon?

[China]

34 minutes ago, tshile said:

It means:

you can do whatever you want if I agree with you on what you’re protesting. But you can’t do anything if I don’t agree with you. 
 

 

it’s obnoxious. Generally speaking discussing anything contentious is obnoxious these days. People lack the ability to be objective, to control their emotions, to think critically, to be empathetic, or otherwise try to put themselves in the shoes of someone they disagree with to consider if maybe there’s another way of viewing things. 
 

we’re broken in many ways. But ultimately our biggest problem is we have a ton of adults that don’t understand what it means to behave like an adult. 

 

 

[gbear]

A protest is a demonstration designed to bring attention to a situation seen by the protester(s) as unjust. 

 

A cautionary note: We all want people to protest in ways that don't impact us or make us think we are wrong in any way.  Why did people hate people kneeling during the anthem?  Why do we hate protesters blocking traffic or truckers deciding to all drive slow around a particular city?

 

Yet how often do you think about the treatment of my youngest when he protests carrots for dinner?  What is the difference?  I posit the difference is you are not all impacted by his pout or food thrown to the floor.  Thus the thing that makes you think is either your inconvenience or discomfort.  It's why governments often have areas they will and not will not permit protests.  They want those who disagree with them to do so in a convenient way, to in effect become a part of the system being protested. 

"Here is your designated protest spot.  Yes I know it is a garbage dump in upper outer Mongolia accessable by plane only once in a double blue moon, but you can say what you want there. I am sure the press might send somebody to cover it."  

 

It seems to me, the key to a good protest is the ability to widen the awareness of the injustice without completely alienating all those suddenly confronting it.  The goal has to be to gain allies, not merely piss off everyone.  Yes, our system can perpetuate a constant protest by being protective of free speech, but the alternative is no better.  The question is how do we as a society take in the points of protestors and fairly process their complaints whether the outcome is ignoring them or acting to make the situation better?  Further how do we do this without requiring ever more disruptive protests just to get our attention? 

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Is protesting for stupid **** a recent phenomenon?

I don’t remember small groups randomly causing trouble being so common.  Maybe the 60/70s were different?  They had like a million bombings then, so times were definitely interesting.  I wasn’t alive then though so I don’t know if they had this high spread of small groups of assholes like we’re enjoying currently.  Five dudes pepper spraying people because their candidate lost doesn’t make the history books.  
 

The 90s and 00s had some huge demonstrations, some of them got wild, riots too, but I don’t recall every dozen people with a cloud to scream at blocking a road or trying to fight random shoppers in a parking lot.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

This is probably correlated to the high level of unemployment. If you’re re not working you have time for other pursuits. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[gbear]

What do you mean by high unemployment?  Our percentage of unemployed is low by most historical measures.  Granted, I am not sure I would consider the remaining unemployed simple frictional unemployment or merely the time it takes for people to realign themselves with a new job in their chosen field.  I think some of it is longer term due to a mismatch in the skill set of the unemployed versus the skill set needed by employers right now.  Still, I am not sure unemployment correlates with an increase in the number of protests we see now.  I am not even sure we are seeing more.  There are protests at every step of our history.  Maybe you think of the mass race protests of the 60's or the anti-Vietnam War protests of the 70's.  They may look different with thing like "Made in America" protesting foreign imports in the 80's and 90's. Perhaps the political correctness and the backlash with the anti-pc crowds don't rise to your level of protests?  Does the hit Dominoes took in pizza orders from college towns count when it came out their owner was anti-abortion in the 1990's register?  Does taking a knee during an anthem at a football game count?  Do only protests impacting millions' of people's day to day lives matter like the BLM in recent years (though this movement predates its wider public acknowledgement)?

 

I think every generation protests.  Some are simply more visible to a wider audience.    

Edited September 16, 2021 by gbear

[Xameil]

On 9/14/2021 at 1:02 PM, Renegade7 said:

Is protesting for stupid **** a recent phenomenon?

No...see the cause-heads from PCU.

[skinsmarydu]

I just heard George Will say, "My happiness is determined by the un-happiness of my enemy." 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

15 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

This is probably correlated to the high level of unemployment. If your not working you have time for other persuits. 

 

I hate to be this guy but I love to be this guy.  Especially right here, right now, with a post that's trying to make a point.

 

Your/you're.  And pursuits.  

 

Happy Thursday! 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

13 hours ago, gbear said:

What do you mean by high unemployment?  Our percentage of unemployed is low by most historical measures.  Granted, I am not sure I would consider the remaining unemployed simple frictional unemployment or merely the time it takes for people to realign themselves with a new job in their chosen field.  I think some of it is longer term due to a mismatch in the skill set of the unemployed versus the skill set needed by employers right now.  Still, I am not sure unemployment correlates with an increase in the number of protests we see now.  I am not even sure we are seeing more.  There are protests at every step of our history.  Maybe you think of the mass race protests of the 60's or the anti-Vietnam War protests of the 70's.  They may look different with thing like "Made in America" protesting foreign imports in the 80's and 90's. Perhaps the political correctness and the backlash with the anti-pc crowds don't rise to your level of protests?  Does the hit Dominoes took in pizza orders from college towns count when it came out their owner was anti-abortion in the 1990's register?  Does taking a knee during an anthem at a football game count?  Do only protests impacting millions' of people's day to day lives matter like the BLM in recent years (though this movement predates its wider public acknowledgement)?

 

I think every generation protests.  Some are simply more visible to a wider audience.    

We have had high unemployment for the last year  which has also correlated to the rise in various protests about various things.

[skinsmarydu]

I used to think that we didn't protest enough in this country because we have to work...unlike some European countries who have healthcare and whatnot.

[gbear]

I don't know if this belongs in here or its own thread.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/milley-biden-trump-military-politics/2021/09/16/84e4e6aa-1700-11ec-ae9a-9c36751cf799_story.html

 

Gen. Milley acted against what he thought might be ordered.  On one hand, it would seem taking steps to sidestep potential civilian orders speaks of a willingness to commit treason.  He effectively defanged Trump, potentially putting the U.S. at a disadvantage if China knows the U.S. may not surprise attack even if ordered to do so.  Knowing another country's military does not support the head of state also shows a situation that in other countries has lead to coups or at the least a rudderless country.

 

On the other hand, I think risking one's career and legacy to prevent a potential coup or nuclear war is a pretty admirable thing to do.  I just worry leaving him in place instead of forcing his resignation sends a message of having an independent military not beholden to the orders of the lawfully elected president.

 

While I respect the heck out of his decisions and reasons presented, I wonder if he should resign for the good of the country.

 

Sometimes, even a rational protest should have costs...even if they aren't fair for the protester to have to pay.  Sometimes, one must suffer an injustice for the good of the many which I believe he served.    I put this forward as a protest case where I do not know what is right or wrong or what the outcome of the protest should be but the case strikes me as a "protest" we don't seem to be treating like one because it is not the BLM type of marches and mass demonstrations we see presented as "protests" on the news.

Edited September 17, 2021 by gbear

[China]

Before you protest, first you've got to get mad...