2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[CommanderInTheRye]

46 minutes ago, OMacAttack said:

And drafting a deep threat with a QB in place in Fitz who took shots downfield. Taylor couldn't make the throws if Dyami got open. Hopefully this year we see some big plays from Dyami.

 

 

Good point.

 

The patterns Dyami runs best are the ones that Heinicke throws worst and Wentz throws best. By mid-season Scott Turner had all but eliminated them from the offense.

 

2023 will be a no excuse year for both "Downtown" Dyami Brown and Scott "AfterBurner" Turner.

[FLSkinz83]

Support Wentz with what he likes....TE's and throwing deep.   

 

We're gonna have to look at TE's in the first 4 rounds and another WR with speed.  

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Support Wentz with what he likes....TE's and throwing deep.   

 

We're gonna have to look at TE's in the first 4 rounds and another WR with speed.  

Unfortunately this doesn't appear to be a very good TE class. Hopefully Thomas returns from injury in his previous form and Bates continues to develop. 

 

I want more more more speed at WR. That's the name of the game now.

[FLSkinz83]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Unfortunately this doesn't appear to be a very good TE class. Hopefully Thomas returns from injury in his previous form and Bates continues to develop. 

 

I want more more more speed at WR. That's the name of the game now.

 

There are some solid round 2-4 TE prospects.   I like Ruckert from Ohio St.

[smooth]

I like Bates , hope thomas comes back think wentz will love him, need another wr in the draft , dont know if we go with it at #11 but would grab one in the 2nd round   

[CommanderInTheRye]

 

[cakmoney61]

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Just a gut feeling. He struggled to create separation in college. His contested catch % is nice and all but all that tells me is that he doesn't get open. 

 

Maybe I'm overly hard on London and just jaded by guys like Doctson and Dyami Brown who literally never get open. I'm tired of guys like that. I don't care about size or winning one on one battles. Its a speed game now. Get guys who can fly and use the entire field. 

IMO, Jameson Williams is that dude.  He is the best and most explosive WR in this draft.  His non-contact knee injury makes me a little skittish about picking him at #11.  But a trade down somewhere in the teens to recoup at least that third-round pick would make me as bold as a lion and I would run his name up to the podium.

 

Also, Williams will not make it past Dallas.  They lost their #1 and #4 receivers so far this offseason.  The thought of him falling in the lap of the Cowboys sickens me. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by cakmoney61
Added a short paragraph.

[Going Commando]

20 hours ago, KDawg said:

I keep seeing you say London is a plodder. But why? The guy is an athlete who runs good routes and is a big body that times his jumps and makes contested catches. In the NFL these are the guys you can hang your hat on. A lot of these speed guys are too reliant on speed and wind up struggling at the next level because they aren’t great in contested situations and struggle at the top of their routes. 

 

True, but I want to know what his speed is before picking him at 11.  My concern with London is he doesn't appear to have much of a top gear and he just kind of runs everything at the same speed.  Honestly, he looks and runs like a TE and kind of reminds me of Travis Kelce, but without the bulk and frame to take a ton of hits going over the middle.  I think NFL defenses are going to play man on him and have their corners just sit on his short game because of a lack of fear of his speed.  I'm not sure if there will be a lot of spectacular downfield playmaking with him at the next level like you saw at USC, but I do think some of that can be alleviated by playing in an offense where Terry and Curtis dictate the movement of the safeties.

 

But route running and ball skills translate and this is where London looks special to me.  His routes are fantastic and his ability to find the ball after the break and make adjustments to it are in the same special tier as Garrett Wilson's, and are the key to him being such an insanely productive workhorse.  He profiles as a better version of Michael Pittman to me, except maybe not as good and blue collar of a blocker.  You also have to love his potential as a big slot facing a lot of zone and off coverage looks.  I like the diversity he'd bring to the passing game, and I'd also like to be able to have another credible outside weapon to move Terry inside more frequently.

 

I wish he was healthy enough to run, because if he could hit low 4.5 then I would be a lot more sold on picking him at 11.  I also think health issues could be recurring with him because he has a really rugged style and is a bit of a lanky athlete.  As is, I can't really justify picking him at 11 in a BPA approach because I think Davis, Loyd, and Linderbaum are all better than he is and they're going to be there at 11.  I think Stingley might be better than him too.  But after a trade down in the first, I'm interested.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Going Commando

[Going Commando]

On 3/19/2022 at 7:39 PM, clskinsfan said:

I am seeing a lot of us taking Lloyd at 11. I dont hate Lloyd. I actually like him a lot more than Davis as a first rounder. But back to back LB's makes my skin crawl. And I am a defensive coach. Screams "Oh **** we missed last year" to me. We need weapons on offense friends. We just do. 

 

We do, but I think we have to stick to a BPA approach.  We just have to worry about getting better and making the safest picks available rather than a sunk cost.  I don't see a WR being the BPA at 11, but I can definitely see a WR or HB being the BPA in our second round range.

 

And don't discount that we kind of just got a major weapon at QB.  Wentz is atypical in how many explosive plays he generates from the QB position.  He's shown an ability to really elevate your backfield and outside WR talent.

 

What I worry about more with him is his very chaotic pocket style and the fact that he holds the ball so long compared to most QBs.  You need absolute studs who can hold blocks forever playing in front of him.  That's why I think dudes like Charles Cross and Tyler Linderbaum who can just catch rushers and stop them in their tracks are a really good value for us.

[Going Commando]

I really think this thread is sleeping on Linderbaum.  His film is awesome and he has the same kind special speed and explosiveness for his position that Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis have at theirs.  He runs incredibly well and is the fastest and twitchiest center I've ever seen.  He's got Aaron Donald-like compact explosive power so I wouldn't let his size deter you.  He's an awesome competitor who played a ton of sports in H.S. and was a good wrestler who beat Tristan Wirfs as a junior.

 

This kid is going to be a future All Pro and he'll get you 14 or 15 AV per healthy season.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

I really think this thread is sleeping on Linderbaum.  His film is awesome and he has the same kind special speed and explosiveness for his position that Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis have at theirs.  He runs incredibly well and is the fastest and twitchiest center I've ever seen.  He's got Aaron Donald-like compact explosive power so I wouldn't let his size deter you.  He's an awesome competitor who played a ton of sports in H.S. and was a good wrestler who beat Tristan Wirfs as a junior.

 

This kid is going to be a future All Pro and he'll get you 14 or 15 AV per healthy season.

I asked the question a week or so back as to whether we’d be crazy to take this guy in the first round. Aside from getting scrutiny on his combine measurable’s, arm length was it?, he looks like an elite athlete. Outright nasty and brutal second level blocking.

 

I did then suggest Roullier to RG which also received a luke warm to non existent response....

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I really think this thread is sleeping on Linderbaum.  His film is awesome and he has the same kind special speed and explosiveness for his position that Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis have at theirs.  He runs incredibly well and is the fastest and twitchiest center I've ever seen.  He's got Aaron Donald-like compact explosive power so I wouldn't let his size deter you.  He's an awesome competitor who played a ton of sports in H.S. and was a good wrestler who beat Tristan Wirfs as a junior.

 

This kid is going to be a future All Pro and he'll get you 14 or 15 AV per healthy season.

You think Chase can play guard?  With us signing Norwell as a stopgap, Schweitzer as a mailer in the run game, is it a huge need?  I’d argue Stingley on a pure talent basis might be more value considering need.  The downside is that he has much more risk.  I’d be fine with drafting good football players.  Cross seems like a luxury considering we just extended Leno (who is competent) and have Cosmi.  I do think teams will want to trade up at our spot.  Baltimore in particular (they a late extra 3rd and multiple 4ths)

[Warhead36]

23 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I really think this thread is sleeping on Linderbaum.  His film is awesome and he has the same kind special speed and explosiveness for his position that Kyle Hamilton and Jordan Davis have at theirs.  He runs incredibly well and is the fastest and twitchiest center I've ever seen.  He's got Aaron Donald-like compact explosive power so I wouldn't let his size deter you.  He's an awesome competitor who played a ton of sports in H.S. and was a good wrestler who beat Tristan Wirfs as a junior.

 

This kid is going to be a future All Pro and he'll get you 14 or 15 AV per healthy season.

I have nothing against Linderbaum, but we already have a real good and fairly young C in Roullier that we just locked up long term and neither he nor Linderbaum appear to be position flexible(IIRC Roullier played some G a couple years back and really struggled). 

2 hours ago, cakmoney61 said:

IMO, Jameson Williams is that dude.  He is the best and most explosive WR in this draft.  His non-contact knee injury makes me a little skittish about picking him at #11.  But a trade down somewhere in the teens to recoup at least that third-round pick would make me as bold as a lion and I would run his name up to the podium.

 

Also, Williams will not make it past Dallas.  They lost their #1 and #4 receivers so far this offseason.  The thought of him falling in the lap of the Cowboys sickens me. 

Yeah Williams would be my #1 but the injury scares me. We just have not had luck in that regard. 

[Riggo#44]

WalterFootball has us taking Hamilton at #11. Their player evaluations are debatable, however, their mock drafts are pretty accurate as to who goes where in the draft. 38 days to go

 

11.  Washington Commanders: Kyle Hamilton, S, Notre Dame

The Commies cut Landon Collins and could use a safety upgrade. Landing Hamilton outside of the top 10 is a solid value for Washington.

The 6-foot-4, 216-pound Hamilton is a dynamic playmaker and difference maker. He has phenomenal size, speed, and ball skills. Hamilton's size and speed make him a highly impactful run defender who flies downhill and is capable of being the eighth man in the box.

Some pro sources think Hamilton should move to linebacker in the NFL because Hamilton is straight line and does not have safety instincts. They feel because he misses some tackles in space and isn't great in man-to-man coverage, and that could be covered at linebacker. He is also taller than teams want in safeties.

Hamilton recorded 31 tackles, three interceptions and three passes defended in 2021. He missed the last five games of the year due to a knee injury suffered while tackling USC's Drake London. Hamilton totaled 56 tackles, an interception and six passes broken up in 2020. He put together an excellent freshman season for Notre Dame, showing good ball skills with four interceptions and six passes broken up to go along with 41 tackles.

[seantaylor=god]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

True, but I want to know what his speed is before picking him at 11.  My concern with London is he doesn't appear to have much of a top gear and he just kind of runs everything at the same speed.  Honestly, he looks and runs like a TE and kind of reminds me of Travis Kelce, but without the bulk and frame to take a ton of hits going over the middle.  I think NFL defenses are going to play man on him and have their corners just sit on his short game because of a lack of fear of his speed.  I'm not sure if there will be a lot of spectacular downfield playmaking with him at the next level like you saw at USC, but I do think some of that can be alleviated by playing in an offense where Terry and Curtis dictate the movement of the safeties.

 

But route running and ball skills translate and this is where London looks special to me.  His routes are fantastic and his ability to find the ball after the break and make adjustments to it are in the same special tier as Garrett Wilson's, and are the key to him being such an insanely productive workhorse.  He profiles as a better version of Michael Pittman to me, except maybe not as good and blue collar of a blocker.  You also have to love his potential as a big slot facing a lot of zone and off coverage looks.  I like the diversity he'd bring to the passing game, and I'd also like to be able to have another credible outside weapon to move Terry inside more frequently.

 

I wish he was healthy enough to run, because if he could hit low 4.5 then I would be a lot more sold on picking him at 11.  I also think health issues could be recurring with him because he has a really rugged style and is a bit of a lanky athlete.  As is, I can't really justify picking him at 11 in a BPA approach because I think Davis, Loyd, and Linderbaum are all better than he is and they're going to be there at 11.  I think Stingley might be better than him too.  But after a trade down in the first, I'm interested.

London is definitely quicker than fast. You made a fair assessment, though. I think he would be a weapon as a chain mover, YAC generator, and red zone target. We have deep threats.

 

I’m always banging the drum for BPA and LT is a sneaky need if there is a guy there. 
 

Leno played fine but he’s older and not elite. Cosmi looked good at RT but already has some injury issues and we may lose our swing tackle in FA. OT is a need.

 

Linderbaum is really a nice devil’s advocate for a pure BPA approach because you really don’t need multiple Centers. But if the rumor Logan Paulson mentioned that we are looking to run more zone, perhaps  Chase could play some guard for us. Also, he’s coming off injury anyway, so we may need some help at C early on.

 

CB is always a need and I like Stingley a lot and would not hesitate at 11.

 

I just don’t like Davis at 11. I think he would be nice in our rotation but I worry he won’t have the stamina to really get a lot of snaps and won’t replace Payne or Allen. Just too much capital in one position. 
 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Some of you would absolutely fall head over heels for the updated CBSSports 2-round mock.

 

#11: Garrett Wilson, WR Ohio State

#47: Jaquan Brisker, S Penn State

 

Still need a MLB in that scenario, but assuming we add one in free agency, that would be a hell of a draft.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

You think Chase can play guard?  With us signing Norwell as a stopgap, Schweitzer as a mailer in the run game, is it a huge need?  I’d argue Stingley on a pure talent basis might be more value considering need.  The downside is that he has much more risk.  I’d be fine with drafting good football players.  Cross seems like a luxury considering we just extended Leno (who is competent) and have Cosmi.  I do think teams will want to trade up at our spot.  Baltimore in particular (they a late extra 3rd and multiple 4ths)

 

I think he could probably play guard.  If we draft Linderbaum, my guess is that Roullier would start at RG.  Schweitzer is a nice rotation IOL but I wouldn't want to rely on him to start for an entire season.

 

We have a lot of competent 5-7 AV per season players on our OL, but no real long term foundation players with All-Pro type upside.  Cross might not have that kind of upside, although I think he's pretty good and he has guard/tackle position flex.  But Linderbaum does have that kind of upside and he could become one of the best players on our offense fairly quickly.

 

I'm on the fence about a trade down.  One the one hand, I think it could be the best way to get the proper value out of a WR or OG pick like Green or Wilson/London.  On the other hand, we're in position to get a really safe, high upside player at a low-value position like Davis/Linderbaum/Lloyd/Hamilton at 11.  I want us to get an All Pro.  This will be the last time we pick in close proximity to the top ten with the Rivera/Wentz construction (either they fail and we start over or they succeed and we start drafting late), so this might be the last time we get to draft a no-brainer first round stud like Davis or Hamilton or Linderbaum.  If Baltimore would throw in the third with 14 for 11, I'd do it because I can probably still get Lloyd or Davis in that scenario.  But lower than that and I start getting gunshy about trading down.  I want a three player class where we get three guys  with perennial 8+ AV potential, and I want our first rounder to net an All Pro with 14+ AV potential.  I'm not sure trading down out of the early teens actually makes that easier to achieve.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Going Commando

[Commander_N_Chief]

9 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Some of you would absolutely fall head over heels for the updated CBSSports 2-round mock.

 

#11: Garrett Wilson, WR Ohio State

#47: Jaquan Brisker, S Penn State

 

Still need a MLB in that scenario, but assuming we add one in free agency, that would be a hell of a draft.

Diehard OSU fan...I know I'll be in the vast minority when saying this hot take but Olave will have the better career.  Do what you can to trade down and take Olave and get some additional picks

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Just now, Commander_N_Chief said:

Diehard OSU fan...I know I'll be in the vast minority when saying this hot take but Olave will have the better career.  Do what you can to trade down and take Olave and get some additional picks

 

I haven't watched enough games to weigh-in but I have had them as a toss-up but I have always felt Olave's route-running put him in the Terry McLaurin territory. I'll take another Terry any day, so I would LOVE this. I don't know how far we could trade down to get Olave, but I would love to add another 2nd or pair of 3's and still get Olave.

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think he could probably play guard.  If we draft Linderbaum, my guess is that Roullier would start at RG.  Schweitzer is a nice rotation IOL but I wouldn't want to rely on him to start for an entire season.

 

We have a lot of competent 5-7 AV per season players on our OL, but no real long term foundation players with All-Pro type upside.  Cross might not have that kind of upside, although I think he's pretty good and he has guard/tackle position flex.  But Linderbaum does have that kind of upside and he could become one of the best players on our offense fairly quickly.

 

I'm on the fence about a trade down.  One the one hand, I think it could be the best way to get the proper value out of a WR or OG pick like Green or Wilson/London.  On the other hand, we're in position to get a really safe, high upside player at a low-value position like Davis/Linderbaum/Lloyd/Hamilton at 11.  I want us to get an All Pro.  This will be the last time we pick in close proximity to the top ten with the Rivera/Wentz construction (either they fail and we start over or they succeed and we start drafting late), so this might be the last time we get to draft a no-brainer first round stud like Davis or Hamilton or Linderbaum.  If Baltimore would throw in the third with 14 for 11, I'd do it because I can probably still get Lloyd or Davis in that scenario.  But lower than that and I start getting gunshy about trading down.  I want a three player class where we get three guys  with perennial 8+ AV potential, and I want our first rounder to net an All Pro with 14+ AV potential.  I'm not sure trading down out of the early teens actually makes that easier to achieve.

 

 

Yeah, I'm looking at 14 as my max trade down scenario.  I could also see Houston trying to jump Minnesota if Kayvon is there at 11 (assuming he drops due to the combine fallout).  Minnesota is desperate for an edge.  

 

Baltimore has the ammo to move up if need be.  They need both Linderbaum and/or Stingley.

[Warhead36]

20 minutes ago, Commander_N_Chief said:

Diehard OSU fan...I know I'll be in the vast minority when saying this hot take but Olave will have the better career.  Do what you can to trade down and take Olave and get some additional picks

I agree. Olave just reminds me so much of Justin Jefferson. Fast, silky smooth, good hands. Wentz could do some real damage with a McLaurin/Olave/Samuel WR trio.

[Commander_N_Chief]

12 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I haven't watched enough games to weigh-in but I have had them as a toss-up but I have always felt Olave's route-running put him in the Terry McLaurin territory. I'll take another Terry any day, so I would LOVE this. I don't know how far we could trade down to get Olave, but I would love to add another 2nd or pair of 3's and still get Olave.

 

I consistently see Olave in the low to mid twenties.  So while we may not be able to garner a king's ransom for trading down we could at least recoup the loss of our 3rd this year or the 2/3 next year.  Olave also has the longer body of work, is very "Terry McLaurin" not only from the crisp routes he runs but he's willing to do whatever you need from him.  Fans would be extremely happy with a Terry/Olave combo.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, Commander_N_Chief said:

 

I consistently see Olave in the low to mid twenties.  So while we may not be able to garner a king's ransom for trading down we could at least recoup the loss of our 3rd this year or the 2/3 next year.  Olave also has the longer body of work, is very "Terry McLaurin" not only from the crisp routes he runs but he's willing to do whatever you need from him.  Fans would be extremely happy with a Terry/Olave combo.

 

I love running mocks all day long when I get bored.Pittsburgh sent me 20 and 52 for 11.

 

20. Chris Olave, WR Ohio State

47. Christian Harris, LB Alabama

52. Jaylen Wydermeyer, TE Texas A&M

 

Doesn't address the secondary, but I assume we'll hit some stuff in FA still.

[Commander_N_Chief]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I love running mocks all day long when I get bored.Pittsburgh sent me 20 and 52 for 11.

 

20. Chris Olave, WR Ohio State

47. Christian Harris, LB Alabama

52. Jaylen Wydermeyer, TE Texas A&M

 

Doesn't address the secondary, but I assume we'll hit some stuff in FA still.

I'd be pretty happy with that, what's your favorite mock.  Some of these I see and I can't believe where and when players are selected.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

19 minutes ago, Commander_N_Chief said:

I'd be pretty happy with that, what's your favorite mock.  Some of these I see and I can't believe where and when players are selected.

 

I have been using the Pro Football Network mock draft simulator. They just use their big board. I have also paid for the FanSpeak version, but their Big Boards aren't great yet (they usually add some reputable lists as the draft draws closer).

I have found the PFN version is the most realistic, and the trades make sense. It also has teams execute trades outside of the user selected teams, so trades don't necessarily happen in a silo with the one team you're using, which I like.