2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I feel you but also I worry about Wentz getting pancaked. With the anchor of our line walking, its easy to want to over compensate. I dont know where else on offense you would spend the pick if not WR or OL so I want one of them. 

 

Mind you I know almost nothing about anyone in this draft.  

 

I get it, but IMO Scherff isn't really the "anchor" of our OL. He was actually one of the lowest rated guys on our line last season. Schweitzer, Leno, Lucas, Roullier, and Cosmi all had higher PFF ratings.

 

I think he's overhyped and we did just fine after he was injured (again). He seems like a good dude, and he's been a solid player for us, but I don't think our OL will really skip a beat with him not on the team anymore.

[IrepDC]

We have to go RB with probably that 4th or 5th round pick now. There's always good value guys there and we need to get Gibson some help to replace McKissick. 

[Llevron]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I get it, but IMO Scherff isn't really the "anchor" of our OL. He was actually one of the lowest rated guys on our line last season. Schweitzer, Leno, Lucas, Roullier, and Cosmi all had higher PFF ratings.

 

See I didnt know any of this. Im sure an argument can be made that he makes the rest of them better in some way. Im not trying to make it though 

 

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I think he's overhyped and we did just fine after he was injured (again). He seems like a good dude, and he's been a solid player for us, but I don't think our OL will really skip a beat with him not on the team anymore.

 

This is a good point. I still like using picks on Oline and defense....but I really need to maximize Wentz dollars/  impact so if not Oline then its got to be a WR right? 

 

I should just let the adults talk lol 

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m saying there are no guards that provide the proper value for this team to take them over a Drake London, Kyle Hamilton, even Devin Lloyd. Therefore, I’m saying that the OL available at 11 are very likely not game changing selections.

 

I might agree with you, but I'm just not sure.   Linderbaum, Green, and Cross are at least in the neighborhood of BPA for me at 11.  Especially Linderbaum.

 

The other consideration for me is I think the depth of the WR class is so strong that I like my second round options at the position a lot better than my options at LB and OL, but I don't really like the idea of going WR/WR with our first and second.  I'm 100% with you that I don't really like our WR group outside of Terry and we are lower on them than the FO appears to be, but I also don't want to get too young there.  So if London, Linderbaum, Green, Cross are my tier that I'm choosing from for BPA at 11, then I'm going to give positional weighting to the OLs.

[cakmoney61]

23 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

We’re trading back, have to be. We are bypassing the upper end of FA. Got to think we fully intend to bail out of #11 to pick up a couple more picks on day 2.

It depends on who is on the board when they pick.  If their #1 QB, CB, or WR is on the board when they pick, they may pull the trigger and I wouldn't necessarily be upset about it.

[clskinsfan]

48 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I'm starting to really dig this guy in the 3rd (still like Cook in the 4th) https://www.profootballnetwork.com/rachaad-white-arizona-state-rb-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2022/ 

We don't have a third though.

25 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I get it, but IMO Scherff isn't really the "anchor" of our OL. He was actually one of the lowest rated guys on our line last season. Schweitzer, Leno, Lucas, Roullier, and Cosmi all had higher PFF ratings.

 

I think he's overhyped and we did just fine after he was injured (again). He seems like a good dude, and he's been a solid player for us, but I don't think our OL will really skip a beat with him not on the team anymore.

I love your posts. But you seem to base everything you say off of PFF rankings. I find their rankings atrocious most times. 

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

It depends on who is on the board when they pick.  If their #1 QB, CB, or WR is on the board when they pick, they may pull the trigger and I wouldn't necessarily be upset about it.

We need to make some inroads during FA I think before we can just sit at #11. Will see how the coming days unfold but we are light in several places right now.

[Inigo Montoya]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

We don't have a third though.

Yeah, didn't say it here but hoping for a good trade back opportunity that would net a 3rd. I think 11 is a good spot for someone to fall that we might not need. 

[duffy]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

We don't have a third though.

Hopefully we do after a trade back... 🤞

[cakmoney61]

3 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

We need to make some inroads during FA I think before we can just sit at #11. Will see how the coming days unfold but we are light in several places right now.

Generally speaking, I think #11 is a great spot for a trade back.

[Going Commando]

10 hours ago, mistertim said:

Meh. Scherff is a good Guard but not elite. He's had one single season with a PFF grade above 80. Compare that with a guy like Zack Martin who's never had a single season grade below 80. He's also constantly injured. He wants an insane amount of money and he's not worth it, considering that out of our 2 other main Guards were either rated higher than him last season (Schweitzer) or around the same (Flowers).

 

And Washington reportedly offered him a long term deal that would have made him the highest paid Guard in the NFL and he turned it down. So it was Scherff trying to bet on himself, not Ron making him prove himself. And it probably backfired since Scherff went back to form as far as his play as well as got injured again. I think most teams will think twice about breaking the bank for a 30 year old Guard who has never consistently been great and has been injured every season since 2016.

 

We didn't offer Scherff a long term deal in 2020 because Rivera didn't want to negotiate any extensions to existing players until he determined they could fit in here, whatever that meant.  That is when the extension needed to happen, that was the point of failure.  We tagged him and he went out and became our first AP All Pro in 20 something years, and at that point we were screwed.  Same thing with Trent that winter/spring.  Rivera told Trent he needed to prove himself and that they wouldn't renegotiate his deal, and they could have gotten him to come back and play if they'd just done so.

 

I'm just pissed that this situation ended so poorly.  Another All Pro lineman walked out of our door for no value and we had tons of cap space the whole time they were in line for an extension.  We don't draft well enough to let our great players leave for a pittance.

[Est.1974]

Just now, cakmoney61 said:

Generally speaking, I think #11 is a great spot for a trade back.

Agree. But I also agree that if an elite prospect is there you pick him and don’t look back.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

We didn't offer Scherff a long term deal in 2020 because Rivera didn't want to negotiate any extensions to existing players until he determined they could fit in here, whatever that meant.  That is when the extension needed to happen, that was the point of failure.  We tagged him and he went out and became our first AP All Pro in 20 something years, and at that point we were screwed.  Same thing with Trent that winter/spring.  Rivera told Trent he needed to prove himself and that they wouldn't renegotiate his deal, and they could have gotten him to come back and play if they'd just done so.

 

I'm just pissed that this situation ended so poorly.  Another All Pro lineman walked out of our door for no value and we had tons of cap space the whole time they were in line for an extension.  We don't draft well enough to let our great players leave for a pittance.

 

We still offered to make him the highest paid Guard in the NFL and he turned it down, unless Rivera and Mayhew literally lied through their teeth about it. I think it's quite possible that Scherff never wanted to come back in the first place. That or he wanted a ludicrous amount of money guaranteed.

 

And to be honest I don't see Scherff as an All Pro. He had one fluke year where he was dominant, but his other years have been good but nothing special. Guys like Zack Martin and Quenton Nelson are true All Pro Guards. Scherff isn't on their level and IMO doesn't deserved to be paid as if he is.

 

I'm certainly not happy that we have another good player walking for nothing, especially if we could have traded him for a high pick, but I also think some people are really overestimating Scherff's impact and how good he was.

 

And I also don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to have a guy who can't stay healthy "prove" himself before we give him an enormous extension. He "proved" again this season the he can't stay healthy. IMO he lowered is value by turning down the offer they made. Now he's a year older, has yet another year of injuries, and also went back to non-dominant play.

[Zim489]

I dont think Scherff was ever going to re sign here regardless of what year it was. 

[cakmoney61]

49 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

We have to go RB with probably that 4th or 5th round pick now. There's always good value guys there and we need to get Gibson some help to replace McKissick. 

What!  They lost McKissick?  I really wanted them to re-sign him.  Are the J.D. McKissicks of the world a dime a dozen in the NFL?  I don't think so.  What did he sign for?

 

So, they've now lost Scherff, Settle, and McKissick.  They have become a worse team since free agency started.

Edited March 15, 2022 by cakmoney61
Added a short paragraph.

[mistertim]

Weird that we didn't re-sign McKissic. The Bills signed him to a 2 year $7 million deal. That's not very much. Do they perhaps envision using Gibson more as McKissic was? If so, who is going to be our every down back?

[Riggo#44]

I like McKissic--but can they find an alternative? I wonder of Deandre Carter figures into that role?

[Est.1974]

Just now, mistertim said:

Weird that we didn't re-sign McKissic. The Bills signed him to a 2 year $7 million deal. That's not very much. Do they perhaps envision using Gibson more as McKissic was? If so, who is going to be our every down back?

Yes I would agree here. Had that thought myself. Get a proper God damn all round bruising back that can also pass protect for his life 

 

Gibson and Samuel then cover the JD shortfall.

[Riggo#44]

30 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

We didn't offer Scherff a long term deal in 2020 because Rivera didn't want to negotiate any extensions to existing players until he determined they could fit in here, whatever that meant.  That is when the extension needed to happen, that was the point of failure.  We tagged him and he went out and became our first AP All Pro in 20 something years, and at that point we were screwed.  Same thing with Trent that winter/spring.  Rivera told Trent he needed to prove himself and that they wouldn't renegotiate his deal, and they could have gotten him to come back and play if they'd just done so.

 

I'm just pissed that this situation ended so poorly.  Another All Pro lineman walked out of our door for no value and we had tons of cap space the whole time they were in line for an extension.  We don't draft well enough to let our great players leave for a pittance.

You blatantly ignore Scherff has missed 22 games over the last 4 years, and hasn't played a full season since 2016. You're going to give him $15-$18m per year? Lets also look at who gave him the big bag: the Jacksonville Jaguars. They make as bad, if not worse, decisions than we do! They hired Urban Meyer...

 

As for Williams, your point is largely disingenuous--Allen destroyed that relationship--I believe we'd have to overpay to keep Williams. To reiterate, Williams is one of my favorite players, but you act like our OL sucks. It doesn't. It's a strength.

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Yes I would agree here. Had that thought myself. Get a proper God damn all round bruising back that can also pass protect for his life 

 

Gibson and Samuel then cover the JD shortfall.

 

Yeah no kidding. We need to end this "let's use this player in a way that doesn't fit him" experiment with Gibson. He's super talented but he's not a bell cow back.

 

My dream scenario would be for Breece Hall to fall to us in the 2nd but that seems a bit far fetched. I think he's more of a late 1st guy.

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

We need to end this "let's use this player in a way that doesn't fit him" experiment with Gibson. He's super talented but he's not a bell cow back.

I like Gibson more than most, I think. I really want to see him without 11-man boxes this year. No one respected our deep game with Smith, Heinicke, et al these last couple of years. I'm hoping they let Wentz go Mark Rypien, Rex Grossman, "**** it, I'm going deep!" 

[skinny21]

In theory, I don’t like the idea of going with IOL at 11 for all the reasons mentioned - positional value, we have talent at the starting spots, etc.

 

There are some interesting/semi-compelling reasons to consider it though I believe.  We need to protect our investment (and our main chance at short term success) in Wentz, our depth is questionable at best now (I thought Ismael was pretty decent, but he’s also a FA next year), while it was very strong last year.  We could potentially trade Roullier at some point.  With us fans lacking certain info, it’s possible a guy like Linderbaum is far cleaner a prospect than the receivers (or whoever).  The draft is deep at receiver.  Flowers and Sweitzer are FAs next year and Roullier has 2 years left.  If we do find a rookie qb in the next couple years (and even if we don’t), it would be nice to continue with the solid oline we’ve built, and so on.  I agree with those that say we need to add star power, but I can also see the benefit of going the ‘safer’ route considering we’re light on cap space, draft picks, the FO wants to turn around the franchise for the rebranding, to bring fans back, etc. 

 

On the face of it, it’s pretty far down my wish list, but if we can’t trade out, if certain guys don’t fall to us, if the staff doesn’t have full faith in who else is there… I’m not sure it’s a terrible move.

[Est.1974]

Keep safety on the draft list with McCain back. 

[Inigo Montoya]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

Keep safety on the draft list with McCain back. 

Yes but can be development, someone like the S from IL later in the draft. 
I still really want a MLB in FA, no way to know if we’ll be able to trade back and get N Dean or Lloyd and too high at 12 for them

plus would give us the ability to go WR early/ but I’ve read conflicting reports on their desire to add a WR

[illone]

Not sure who I want to draft at RB, but this guy intrigues me: