2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

51 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Somewhat disagree here. Willis is a one read and run QB who's almost more of a RB than a QB. Mahomes was a passing juggernaut at Texas Tech. Yes he certainly ran for a fair amount of TDs, but he also passed for 93 of them (in only 3 seasons). IMO he was way way above where Willis is now as a pure passer.

 

He was also playing against much better competition and had a crap supporting cast and defense so he basically had to do everything himself. He was regularly throwing up 3, 4, 5 TDs and his team still lost those games.

 

I hear you but you are off on a tangent that has little to do with my post.   My post didn't compare Willis to Mahomes.   

 

 My point was dudes who are considered raw for whatever reason have often been questioned hard on the draft thread, mock drafters, twitter, you name it.  I can recall some of them.  Lamar Jackson is really a RB not a QB.  Josh Allen had his loud critics.   I recall bringing up Mahomes and saying he's got a lot of tools but he's raw.  And at the time a regular poster (who doesn't post anymore) responded to my post mocking the idea of raw as quite the understatement suggesting the word raw doesn't sum up enough how raw he was. 

 

In retrospect, we all do it sometimes.  And, the media mock drafters do it all the time which is they take players that they didn't regard that highly in real time but after they killed it in the NFL they refer to those players now as special as if they were always special and act like it was obvious from the jump so how can you compare such and such dude to name that new prospect.  Even though if you run with their same takes BEFORE the draft, such and such who is so obviously special to them now, wasn't special to them when they were evaluating that player before the draft -- just as they are saying this new player isn't special before the draft.  

 

I am not comparing Willis to anyone.  I am just saying that type of player, boom-bust in whatever version it comes in typically has its shares of loud critics.   And some of these guys boom and some of them bust.     But I just recall over the years some real emotional opposition to players like that.  And yeah sometimes that emotion is vindicated and sometimes it isn't. 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I hear you but you are off on a tangent that has nothing to do with my post.   My post didn't compare Willis to Mahomes.   

 

 My point was dudes who are considered raw for whatever reason have often been questioned hard on the draft thread, mock drafters, twitter, you name it.  I can recall some of them.  Lamar Jackson is really a RB not a QB.  Josh Allen had his loud critics.   I recall bringing up Mahomes and saying he's got a lot of tools but he's raw.  And at the time a regular poster responded to my post mocking the idea of raw as quite the understatement suggesting the word raw doesn't sum up enough how raw he was. 

 

In retrospect, we all do it sometimes.  And, the media mock drafters do it all the time which is they take players that they didn't regard that highly in real time but after they killed it in the NFL they refer to those players now as special as if they were always special and act like it was obvious from the jump so how can you compare such and such dude to name that new prospect.  Even though if you run with their same takes BEFORE the draft, such and such who is so obviously special to them now, wasn't special to them when they were evaluating that player before the draft -- just as they are saying this new player isn't special before the draft.  

 

I am not comparing Willis to anyone.  I am just saying that type of player, boom-bust in whatever version it comes in typically has its shares of loud critics.   And some of these guys boom and some of them bust.     But I just recall over the years some real emotional opposition to players like that.  And yeah sometimes that emotion is vindicated and sometimes it isn't. 

 

I hear you. I guess I just never personally thought of Mahomes as anywhere near as raw as a guy like Jackson or Willis, considering how great he was through the air. But yes your general point certainly stands. Every year there are those guys who are considered raw to one degree or another and those boom/bust guys are almost always a huge debate. I still remember being absolutely shocked when SF gave up a king's ransom to move up for Lance. I wasn't convinced by him, but those coaches and FO guys have forgotten more football than I know so they could certainly end up completely right.

Edited December 3, 2021 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I hear you. I guess I just never personally thought of Mahomes as anywhere near as raw as a guy like Jackson or Willis, considering how great he was through the air. But yes your general point certainly stands. Every year there are those guys who are considered raw to one degree or another and those boom/bust guys are almost always a huge debate. I still remember being absolutely shocked when SF gave up a king's ransom to move up for Lance. I wasn't convinced by him, but those coaches and FO guys have forgotten more football than I know so they could certainly end up completely right.

 

Yeah i am not saying I was a Mahomes guy.  but I do recall bringing him up and being mocked for it.   

 

And I am not giving anyone a hard time for it.  I've been wrong on some of those guys myself.  Just saying it comes some with the turf for prospects who are considered (justifably or not) as boom-bust.  And again I am not saying they all boom -- some of them indeed bust.  

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

It pains me to see Pete Werner playing well for New Orleans.

[Going Commando]

I like but don't love Corral.  IMO he's a traits based projection that runs a gimmick college offense where a lot of his play style in that system will not translate to the NFL.  He also hasn't been that productive this season, which is a little disappointing given how much better his team is this year compared to last.

 

But I think he's a try hard and a quality athlete with a lively arm, so he's interesting.  I just think Willis is a way better talent than him, and his body and his running are going to translate much better to the NFL.  Corral as a top ten pick feels dicey to me.  The risk feels too high in that range.  TBH the only QB I think is worthy of going top ten this year is Willis.  Pickett and Corral feel more appropriately valued in the teens, after most of the blue chip defenders and tackles and receivers are gone.

 

Howell needs to go back to school and put up a better final season of film IMO.  He's not a traitsy prospect who can overcome bad film and his 15+ carries a game style of play this season is just not good offense and it won't translate to the NFL.  He's slow and NFL defenders will absolutely make him pay for running through the middle of the field all game.  If we want to talk about a one read and run QB, that's Howell this year.  He has been atrocious at managing his pressures and he just hasn't been seeing the field well.  His traits pale in comparison to Willis and are a marked step down from Corral's as well, and he was thoroughly outplayed by Pickett.  He's QB4 at best in this class, and feels like a fringe first round pick who could drop to the second if the demand for the position isn't there.  He should go back for his Senior season.  He needs to play better in order to justify a high pick and that's his chance to be a QB1 or QB2.

[Going Commando]

This year's class feels a bit like 2011.  A shocking number of can't miss blue chippers on defense in the first round mix, a couple of stud receivers, three or four impressive OLs who are decidedly below the top defenders in quality or position value, one RB who might sneak into the first based on an amazingly productive final season, a couple of flawed but intriguing QB prospects who feel like they'll go ~teens, and then one ultra gifted transfer QB playing the position almost like an option QB or RB who might go high.  But the big difference is Cam won a Heisman and NC playing for Auburn and that made it a lot easier to justify picking him first than the kid who had to transfer away from Auburn to find a home playing in obscurity at Liberty.  This feels like a year where the top two will be some order of Hutchinson and Thibs.

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I like but don't love Corral.  IMO he's a traits based projection that runs a gimmick college offense where a lot of his play style in that system will not translate to the NFL.  He also hasn't been that productive this season, which is a little disappointing given how much better his team is this year compared to last.

 

But I think he's a try hard and a quality athlete with a lively arm, so he's interesting.  I just think Willis is a way better talent than him, and his body and his running are going to translate much better to the NFL.  Corral as a top ten pick feels dicey to me.  The risk feels too high in that range.  TBH the only QB I think is worthy of going top ten this year is Willis.  Pickett and Corral feel more appropriately valued in the teens, after most of the blue chip defenders and tackles and receivers are gone.

 

Howell needs to go back to school and put up a better final season of film IMO.  He's not a traitsy prospect who can overcome bad film and his 15+ carries a game style of play this season is just not good offense and it won't translate to the NFL.  He's slow and NFL defenders will absolutely make him pay for running through the middle of the field all game.  If we want to talk about a one read and run QB, that's Howell this year.  He has been atrocious at managing his pressures and he just hasn't been seeing the field well.  His traits pale in comparison to Willis and are a marked step down from Corral's as well, and he was thoroughly outplayed by Pickett.  He's QB4 at best in this class, and feels like a fringe first round pick who could drop to the second if the demand for the position isn't there.  He should go back for his Senior season.  He needs to play better in order to justify a high pick and that's his chance to be a QB1 or QB2.

I find it ironic you love Willis and knock Howell for 11 carries a game. Willis carries the ball 15 times. What's his excuse?

[Anselmheifer]

56 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I find it ironic you love Willis and knock Howell for 11 carries a game. Willis carries the ball 15 times. What's his excuse?

I don’t know that he is saying that Willis is better at seeing the field and going through reads. He’s saying that Willis’ running will actually translate to the NFL whereas you can throw that part of Howell’s game out. Willis also has that elite arm. 
 

If you’re going to take a 1 read guy, take the one that is a special runner and has a rocket arm. 
 

Im not saying I agree that Howell is a one read guy. I haven’t watched him to form a judgment. 
 

I will say that I’m nervous about the QB position this year and wouldn’t take one to take one. If the choice is Haskins or Jones or a position player, we should be taking a position player. 
 

But, if they think those are the options, unless Heineke takes us to the playoffs and looks really good, I’d try to make a trade for a big name guy. If there isn’t a guy within our reach in the draft, make the trade. 

[Redskins Reparations]

10 hours ago, KDawg said:

It pains me to see Pete Werner playing well for New Orleans.

I remember you drafting him during the ES mock last and saying he was one of the best LB’s in last years class.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Im not saying I agree that Howell is a one read guy. I haven’t watched him to form a judgment. 
 

 

 

He's not.

Just now, Redskins Reparations said:

I remember you drafting him during the ES mock last and saying he was one of the best LB’s in last years class.

 

I think of all the guys in last year's draft he was the guy I wanted most. Maybe more than Fields. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, KDawg said:

It pains me to see Pete Werner playing well for New Orleans.

 

I know what you mean.  Sometimes I even root against players I've touted if we don't draft them because it pains me in those cases too.😢

 

Yeah I liked Werner, too but that was a dude you touted a lot.  My guy at LB-hybrid was JOK who has been killer good at Cleveland.   I think most of us wish they doubled up at LB in that last draft.   

[Warhead36]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

This year's class feels a bit like 2011.  A shocking number of can't miss blue chippers on defense in the first round mix, a couple of stud receivers, three or four impressive OLs who are decidedly below the top defenders in quality or position value, one RB who might sneak into the first based on an amazingly productive final season, a couple of flawed but intriguing QB prospects who feel like they'll go ~teens, and then one ultra gifted transfer QB playing the position almost like an option QB or RB who might go high.  But the big difference is Cam won a Heisman and NC playing for Auburn and that made it a lot easier to justify picking him first than the kid who had to transfer away from Auburn to find a home playing in obscurity at Liberty.  This feels like a year where the top two will be some order of Hutchinson and Thibs.

That's lofty. 2011 was one of the best draft classes of all time. 12 of the first 16 picks made the Pro Bowl. A legit case can be made that 5 future Hall of Famers were taken in the 1st round(Von Miller, Julio Jones, JJ Watt, Tyron Smith, and then Cam Heyward who wasn't taken until 31).

 

Not just that but there were MULTIPLE Pro Bowlers taken in EVERY round until round 7. And a few mid round picks will also get HOF consideration(Richard Sherman for one).

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

I find it ironic you love Willis and knock Howell for 11 carries a game. Willis carries the ball 15 times. What's his excuse?

 

Howell is at 16 carries per game this year.  The big, big, big difference between him and Willis is Willis is actually fast.  Fast enough to get to the edges and fast enough to execute the zone read at a high level against NFL speed.  He's elusive and powerful and can run like a RB.  Sam Howell's season has been UNC using him like he's Lamar Jackson when he's actually Baker Mayfield. It's worked passably well for UNC but he's going to get destroyed trying to run those options that way in the NFL.  Just rumbling completely upright at a 4.7 pace through the middle of the field 15 times a game.  It won't translate, and it's been a big part of his production and the production of his offense this year.

 

I don't understand how you can say Willis doesn't make progression reads while thinking that Sam Howell goes through his reads better.  The dude has been seeing the field through a straw this year.  Totally locked on to his first reads and either holding the ball forever in the pocket or taking off and running immediately.  They've been playing the same way, but Willis is doing it with less and he's got way more athletic ability and more arm talent.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Didn't watch the game last night but Werner isn't getting much playing time.  13 snaps last night (or 19% of total snaps).  He was getting starter snaps originally, but New Orleans seems to have demoted him.  Past 5 games he's had 14-42% of the snaps.

 

For the record, I also liked Werner.  How did Paulson Adebo do last night?  Seems like he's getting >50% of the snaps every week.

[Warhead36]

The guy we might have really missed out on is Nick Bolton. He won Defensive Rookie of the Month for October.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

The guy we might have really missed out on is Nick Bolton. He won Defensive Rookie of the Month for October.

My guy. He went a bit before our second and Cosmi was a homerun, but I was one of the only big Bolton fans. The guy just produced constantly in college.

[Redskins Reparations]

I have been watching highlights of Desmond Riddler and I believe he a closer comparison to Mahomes than Corral is.  I like what I see in Riddlers QB play. 

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Didn't watch the game last night but Werner isn't getting much playing time.  13 snaps last night (or 19% of total snaps).  He was getting starter snaps originally, but New Orleans seems to have demoted him.  Past 5 games he's had 14-42% of the snaps.

 

For the record, I also liked Werner.  How did Paulson Adebo do last night?  Seems like he's getting >50% of the snaps every week.

His playing time has decreased. I’ve watched a lot of Saints games. Every time he’s on the field he seems to be making a play somewhere. The Saints would have a better idea about why he’s not on the field as much.

 

I’m not sure he’d be off the field for us. But we played Bostic consistently so… who knows.

[Redskins Reparations]

7 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said:

I have been watching highlights of Desmond Riddler and I believe he a closer comparison to Mahomes than Corral is.  I like what I see in Riddlers QB play. 

I just watched the highlights of the game against ND. I didn’t realize he has issues with passing accuracy. However, I do like his arm strength and quickly the ball comes out of his hand.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Redskins Reparations said:

I have been watching highlights of Desmond Riddler and I believe he a closer comparison to Mahomes than Corral is.  I like what I see in Riddlers QB play. 

 

Up to you but I'd go beyond highlights.  If its highlights who isn't good?  For example, Darnold's highlights were awesome but when I watched complete games I got a totally different picture.

 

Neither Ridder or Corral make me think of Mahomes stylistically.   But if I had to make a comparison, I think Corral is the better off platform playmaker compared to Ridder albeit Ridder makes some off platform throws, too.   Both guys can scramble in the pocket but not in Mahomes league IMO.   Both have decent arms but not a rocket like Mahomes IMO. 

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Up to you but I'd go beyond highlights.  If its highlights who isn't good?  For example, Darnold's

 

Dude, wtf did he do to you?

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Dude, wtf did he do to you?

 

lol, yeah i should feel bad about it. I hear he's a nice guy.  He's become my favorite punching bag -- maybe I should blame Sheehan for that.    In the off season, he kept going on and on about how Darnold just has something to him.  So it made me watch him and then watch him again and again.   And I just didn't see it.  Some argued back at me on the QB thread by showcasing some of his highlight runs.  My response was yeah he's a big dude who can roll out of the pocket well and has some elusiveness in open field when he could spring open for a run here and there.  But that's just one attribute.  All these guys typically have a nice attribute or two.  But what's the whole package?  

 

I was almost as harsh on Rosen the year he was on the trading block.  I think I am jerk on both guys in part because I spent so much time on both dudes that perhaps I resent them both for consuming so much of my time  -- with my conclusion being that i didn't want them. 

 

Heck, I really wanted to buy in because it would be fun to just grab a reclamation project on the cheap and solve our QB woes.   But yeah I am probably coming off mean on Darnold.  He's not a bad guy at all -- just IMO he doesn't have "it" at QB. 

[Koolblue13]

Sip drives past a bad neighborhood "that's the Darnold part of town

 

finishes coffee in the morning  "guess I'll drop Drnold off at the pool"

 

has a bad day at work  "this has really Darnold'"

 

[Comrade Wolf]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Sip drives past a bad neighborhood "that's the Darnold part of town

 

finishes coffee in the morning  "guess I'll drop Drnold off at the pool"

 

has a bad day at work  "this has really Darnold'"

 

Nominate that as the best post of the year 🍻