2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

CJ Spiller just declared he's entering the draft.

You mean Isiah? CJ was drafted like ten years ago "lolol"

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

You mean Isiah? CJ was drafted like ten years ago "lolol"

Then yes I do. Ols

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Redwards said:

I do worry about this guy's build though.  He's gonna have to put on some serious muscle to last.  How will that affect his game?

 

I also worry about his injury history.  

 

All that said, I still take him in a trade up (within reason), which we are going to have to do, i believe, if we really want our top prospects at QB.

 

Yep, I mentioned that.  His build is slight.  The dude has the reputation as being a hard worker so I think he can build some muscle.  I don't see it affecting his game.  But I guess no way to know until he does it. 

 

As for injuries, do you mean this year?  He's played the whole season but he's had some nagging injuries through the process.  I just tried to dig for past injuries but couldn't find but maybe I am missing it?

 

As a dude, I got to explore more.  I like most of what i've read about him but there are some red flags about him being a bit high strung -- fight in high school and a few other things. 

 

1. MATT CORRAL, OLE MISS

Corral was one of the most highly touted quarterbacks ahead of the season and still is as Ole Miss prepares to play in the Sugar Bowl. Corral has been praised for his high level of accuracy by coaches and analysts alike. He’s solid on the deep ball when he’s asked to throw it and has the right amount of mobility to make plays with his legs and the ability to work off-script and outside of the pocket when the situation calls for it. There are areas he needs to polish up as far as fine-tuning is concerned (and let’s face it, every rookie-to-be has those areas), but should make the transition to the NFL nicely after some time to adjust and develop. He’s not the most flashy guy in terms of physical tools at 6-foot and 200 pounds and doesn’t necessarily have a strong “it” factor that sticks out as some other prospects do, but he has effectively gotten the job done elevating the Rebels’ offense and has plenty an NFL team could build upon. Corral completed 68.4% of his passes for 3,339 yards with 20 touchdowns and four interceptions this season.

[Koolblue13]

Sip, you know anything about Strongs personality?

[Going Commando]

I'm as nervous about Malik Willis's development arc as anyone, particularly here where we've shown so little ability to develop prospects at the position over the last three decades, but I still think he's the only QB prospect with All Pro type upside in the class.  He is physically superior to the other prospects this year.  If we're going to pin our hopes for improvement on a new QB from this draft, we've got to make sure that the guy has a chance to be a true upgrade over Heinicke.  Willis can be a superstar.

[Going Commando]

Think of how explosive a backfield with Gibby and Willis would be.  Keep the OL and TE pipeline full and that's an offense that is tough to defend even in year one where a passing game would be pretty limited.

[Koolblue13]

13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Think of how explosive a backfield with Gibby and Willis would be.  Keep the OL and TE pipeline full and that's an offense that is tough to defend even in year one where a passing game would be pretty limited.

If what Sip posted about the playbook being full of RPO type stuff that Heinicke won't run off, you're right.

 

I could see another 2012 type draft where we use a lot to go up and get Willis and then take another guy at the start of day 3.

[Koolblue13]

 

[skinsfan93]

Give me any of those qbs because they all have played a few seasons in college and should be ready to step in right away. I don’t want Willis no matter the comparisons to Lamar. I’m tired of a running qb. Once they get serious injury, they are never the same. I want a guy who can play for 10 years as a pocket passer. 
 

** Howell holds the ball too low. He does have a quick release but he’s gonna have to alter his throwing motion. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by skinsfan93

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Sip, you know anything about Strongs personality?

I haven’t dug that hard but from what I’ve seen: he comes off chill, laid back in interviews. Not charismatic or totally boring but closer to the boring side.

 

From what I’ve read he’s a hard worker.

 

He IMO throws the nicest deep ball and deep out throws in this QB crop. But he really needs a wall to protect him, he IMO doesn’t have good mobility or good pocket presence.  He reminds me some of Mark Rypien.

[Koolblue13]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I haven’t dug that hard but from what I’ve seen: he comes off chill, laid back in interviews. Not charismatic or totally boring but closer to the boring side.

 

From what I’ve read he’s a hard worker.

 

He IMO throws the nicest deep ball and deep out throws in this QB crop. But he really needs a wall to protect him, he IMO doesn’t have good mobility or good pocket presence.  He reminds me some of Mark Rypien.

I was thinking Matt Ryan.

 

Btw, any videos you come across like the ones I posted, please share. I love that stuff.

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I was thinking Matt Ryan.

 

Btw, any videos you come across like the ones I posted, please share. I love that stuff.

 

Will do.  He had a couple of interviews on you tube that I watched, nothing that interesting but I haven't dug hard yet on finding info about him.  Not sure about Matt Ryan -- actually I think Ryan has better pocket prescense and mobility than Strong.  That's why I went with Rypien.  Strong's deep ball is a thing of beauty.  He has a quick release.  Smooth mechanics.  And can make some really difficult throws -- tight windows and he can hit some out routes that our QBs in recent years would struggle with.  But he also hits me as a dude that will get sacked a lot.  It's not just that he isn't fast but also that he seems a bit slow to react to pressure in the pocket.  That's why I think he needs a wall of protection to thrive.  

Edited December 16, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

 

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

He’ll have a chance at that distinction. Going to depend on his hand size and the larger NFL ball. I think that’s being overlooked a bit. 
 

He may wind up being totally okay throwing it, too. But it’ll be looked at with a microscope every time he throws.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

If what Sip posted about the playbook being full of RPO type stuff that Heinicke won't run off, you're right.

 

I could see another 2012 type draft where we use a lot to go up and get Willis and then take another guy at the start of day 3.

 

Willis is a hard evaluation for me so far.  But everything being equal, I've become into high ceiling Qbs especially if that ceiling includes potential elite level mobility like him.  He's working with nothing at Liberty both in terms of his O line and playmakers.

 

I disagree with some who put out the idea of lets pass on the 2022 off season at QB, lets bring this band back with Heinicke leading the show again, and lets get aggressive in 2024 and find that QB then. I get the thought.  While I disagree, the logic isn't wild behind it.   I get this crop and this situation might be tougher than it was in 2021.  And I gave them a pass for 2021.  I am not going to give them a pass for 2022, if they ride with them same horses and the team still seems stuck on neutral.  Having said that, I am perfectly fine with riding with a more raw prospect who rides the bench for a year like Willis. 

 

I am not really worried though that Rivera is thinking of punting to 2023 at QB. Every indication I get from his interviews and the beat guys is all hands are on deck for a QB this off season.  I think something will go down this draft or in the trade market.    Heck COVID-19 ironically might keep us in play for these Qbs if we end up picking in the low teens where I doubt we'd have to trade up.  My gut is two QBs go top 10 and those probably will be Corral and Pickett.  And then somewhere between 10-32 you'll have:  Willis, Strong, Ridder, Howell. 

 

I think the Lions take Hutchinson first.  I think the Eagles take a QB.  It's not that I buy that they are out on Hurts.  But its that years ago I read a long article about Roseman's take on QBs and the thesis of it is he doesn't think you can be a winner in this league without one and believes in doubling down if he's not sure he's got that guy.  I think at a minimum its clear that Hurts isn't some slam dunk top 15 QB.   From that article, Roseman didn't come off as a dude who believed in build a killer roster and the QB then doesn't have to be that great.  

 

In the segment below, Vick talks some about Willis.  He highlights the intangibles and how important they are.  I know some disagree that it matters much with the angle that all these guys are competitors since they are first rounders and intangibles are similar.  Not me on that point by a long shot.  My take, I'd start with since when are people's personalities all alike -- and personalities are key factors as far as intangibles go.  Also while I agree there is something to all of these guys that made them successful in college -- succeeding in the pros takes much more committment, football smarts among other things.  Are all CEOs the same level talents just because they are CEOs?  Elon Musk and name that random CEO have the same makeup?   

 

My point there is I am going to put a ton of stock in what's been said about these guys at the Senior Bowl and I love the fact that all these guys just about are going to be there.  I recall playing up that Daniel Jones' personality at the Senior Bowl seems so weird and so low key for a QB that made even Eli look like the life of the party -- and in turn he didn't strike me as a leader type at all.  I recall several people responded with hey I don't love the player either but who freakin cares about his personality because it means nothing.  IMO the personality is a variable and indeed it means something.  Not saying Jones' struggles are a function of his personality but I think the idea that he's not a player that his team rallies around indeed played out in the pros.  We got a lot of our own players play up Heinicke's personality more than anything really as for why they love playing with him.  Personality matters IMO.  It's not everything.  But its not IMO an irrelevant-nothing. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:32 AM, Koolblue13 said:

If what Sip posted about the playbook being full of RPO type stuff that Heinicke won't run off, you're right.

 

I could see another 2012 type draft where we use a lot to go up and get Willis and then take another guy at the start of day 3.

 

I'd be very surprised if we have to move up for Willis. I think he's basically a fringe 1st rounder at this point. He's had a very mediocre year with 24 TDs and 12 INTs, including 3 games with 3 interceptions. I get that he doesn't have much as far as supporting cast, but he's also mostly played against pretty subpar teams. The crappy supporting cast thing would mean more if he was going up against good teams every week.

 

Does he have high upside from a pure talent perspective? Sure. There's no doubting his physical skills and running ability. But as a passer, while he has a cannon arm, he's got very up and down accuracy and some very questionable decision making at times. He's a one read and run guy who hasn't played well when he's gone up against decent defenses who know how to defend that sort of QB and have the personnel to do it.

 

I think he could be a good NFL QB but I also think his learning curve in the league is going to be very steep. I wouldn't hate it if we picked him where we draft, but I'm not interested at all in moving up for him. There's a possibility he could even be available in the 2nd round as once you get past a certain point in the 1st most teams picking don't need a QB (though someone could move back up into the 1st for him from their 2nd round spot).

[Warhead36]

Yeah there is no way I'd move up for a guy like Willis. If we're picking around 15 and he happens to be there then I'm okay taking a shot but man he's raw AF. Trey Lance was more highly touted and even he isn't sniffing the field.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'd be very surprised if we have to move up for Willis. I think he's basically a fringe 1st rounder at this point. He's had a very mediocre year with 24 TDs and 12 INTs, including 3 games with 3 interceptions. I get that he doesn't have much as far as supporting cast, but he's also mostly played against pretty subpar teams. The crappy supporting cast thing would mean more if he was going up against good teams every week.

 

Does he have high upside from a pure talent perspective? Sure. There's no doubting his physical skills and running ability. But as a passer, while he has a cannon arm, he's got very up and down accuracy and some very questionable decision making at times. He's a one read and run guy who hasn't played well when he's gone up against decent defenses who know how to defend that sort of QB and have the personnel to do it.

 

I think he could be a good NFL QB but I also think his learning curve in the league is going to be very steep. I wouldn't hate it if we picked him where we draft, but I'm not interested at all in moving up for him. There's a possibility he could even be available in the 2nd round as once you get past a certain point in the 1st most teams picking don't need a QB (though someone could move back up into the 1st for him from their 2nd round spot).

You think Malik Willis might be drafted in the second round?

 

I don't think we'll be moving up for a QB, because one will be available that we like around our pick, but Willis will be gone by then anyway.

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You think Malik Willis might be drafted in the second round?

 

I don't think we'll be moving up for a QB, because one will be available that we like around our pick, but Willis will be gone by then anyway.

 

I think it's absolutely possible. He's had a disappointing season, given the hype and how he started. He mostly beat up on crappy teams and then struggled quite a bit when up against decent defenses. I've seen some mocks now with him not even going in the 1st. Some with him near the middle or the bottom of the 1st. He definitely doesn't seem to be talked about as a top 10 pick much anymore.

 

Someone will likely pick him in the 1st, but it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. I guess it's possible that a team will fall in love with his running and athleticism and take a huge gamble on him in the top 10 but I think it's increasingly unlikely. 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it's absolutely possible. He's had a disappointing season, given the hype and how he started. He mostly beat up on crappy teams and then struggled quite a bit when up against decent defenses. I've seen some mocks now with him not even going in the 1st. Some with him near the middle or the bottom of the 1st. He definitely doesn't seem to be talked about as a top 10 pick much anymore.

 

Someone will likely pick him in the 1st, but it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. I guess it's possible that a team will fall in love with his running and athleticism and take a huge gamble on him in the top 10 but I think it's increasingly unlikely. 

I think he'll be one of 5 QBs taken in the first. It's just too important of a position. QBs get over drafted every year. Willis has too much upside. I'd bet he's the 3rd QB taken and gone before 15.

 

I wouldn't draft hi in the first, but someone absolutely will.

[philibusters]

SteveMcQueen has convinced me that Willis is the QB with the highest ceiling in this year's draft, which means he'll likely be one of the first 3 QB taken even if its a risky bet.

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think he'll be one of 5 QBs taken in the first. It's just too important of a position. QBs get over drafted every year. Willis has too much upside. I'd bet he's the 3rd QB taken and gone before 15.

 

I wouldn't draft hi in the first, but someone absolutely will.

 

5 minutes ago, philibusters said:

SteveMcQueen has convinced me that Willis is the QB with the highest ceiling in this year's draft, which means he'll likely be one of the first 3 QB taken even if its a risky bet.

 

There's no doubt that Willis has tons of upside with his arm and running abilities, but teams will have to weigh that against the tape and how big of a learning curve they think he'll have. And his tape this season has been a very mixed bag. Beat up on some crappy teams, but against decent defenses he showed spotty accuracy and poor decision making.

 

Early in the season he was considered a potential top 5 pick but things went south and he had some really bad games. I'd be pretty surprised if that didn't affect the draft boards of most teams.

 

I agree that Willis will probably still be a 1st round pick, but I wouldn't be completely shocked if he lasted until the 2nd. I had him higher on my own QB board earlier in the season but after watching him struggle and put up some pretty bad games I'd take Corral, Pickett, and Howell before him. I'd consider Ridder before him as well.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

58 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think he'll be one of 5 QBs taken in the first. It's just too important of a position. QBs get over drafted every year. Willis has too much upside. I'd bet he's the 3rd QB taken and gone before 15.

 

I wouldn't draft hi in the first, but someone absolutely will.

 

Yeah too much talent for him to drop far IMO.  I'd guess #3 in the draft too.  

Edited December 17, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah too much talent for him to drop far IMO.  I'd guess #3 in the draft too.  

 

It's definitely possible, but I absolutely do not want to trade up for him. If we picked him where we are then I'd be ok with it.

 

Some team may hope they're getting the next Lamar Jackson (though Jackson's final year of college was better than Willis), but it's a huge gamble because Willis IMO just isn't that good of a passer so it would need to be a team that will either be super patient with a really raw passer or open to doing what the Ravens did with Jackson and completely reimagining their offense to fit a running QB.

 

I'm just not sure that we fit either of those. I don't think the team, owner, or fans have the requisite patience and I have doubts that Turner would completely turn his offense upside down. Adding in more RPO stuff? Sure. But completely re-doing it for a running QB? I find that dubious.