A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Conn said:

^^in response to that, it’s definitely an underrepresented viewpoint here: that it’s possible we didn’t just arrogantly sit out FA—maybe we had some FA targets, guys with plenty of other options, not interested in us at a reasonable market value because of all the negative drama with Snyder. 

 

Agree.  And I think some other sneaky things about Dan hurt the effort too like his inability to get a stadium in turn likely has to put in his own money into the effort in a big way.  Guys that are plugged in including ironically Standig have speculated about Dan's cash flow potentially limiting their aggressiveness in FA.    Standig doesn't typically speculate for no reason.  Ditto the other 3 beat guys give or take who speculated the same thing.

 

I know it drives some nuts when I among others make this point.    Where some say, yes, Dan is bad but he has all the money in the world to do anything he wants.  And with some it can turn into strawman stuff like is Dan broke?  Oh, so he's not broke so we don't know what we are talking about.  All is good with those discussions.  Intentions are good with everyone on it.  But I respectfully believe there is real logic behind why guys like Kroencke can front load and chase more than Dan does. 

 

No Dan isn't broke, he's rich as heck.  But spending 50-100 million in guarantee money and front loading contracts like the Rams are doing among other teams -- good chance it's not in Dan's easy financial comfort zone.   And his lack of business acumen-success as to outside ventures and inability to forge friendships to help get a stadium -- might have an impact on his current cash flow.

 

And even for those who don't want to believe that Dan limits them in FA as far as cash flow.  I think we all agree Dan is cheap as heck and that might also impact this as an appealing place.  At least pre-Ron, they were known as one of the cheapest teams as far as what they were willing to pay scouts-FO people, some assistant coaches.  Worst facilities.  Shanny had to talk Dan into giving his players good food versus cheap junk food.  Jay had Dan at hello when he told him he wouldn't have to fire the defensive coaches if he was hired -- because Dan hates eating coach salaries. On and on and on and on. 

 

In that article some agents said money would supersede Dan as this being a destination place.  But most said Dan was a hindrance.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

37 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

No, it’s not underrepresented. I’ve been screaming from the mountain tops. As have others. It’s an under accepted reality. People don’t want to believe it so they fight it.

imo if there are a significant number of people who think we just willingly sat out FA, then it’s still underrepresented lol

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

imo if there are a significant number of people who think we just willingly sat out FA, then it’s still underrepresented lol

 

There is an extremely large contingent of folk that think Snyder is a bad man but cannot possibly be the reason that this team has stunk since 1999.

Edited September 1, 2022 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll add agents have a ton of influence as we know.  That's who players talk to.  They talk to FO people all the time, etc.

 

The idea that they actually like this FO and Ron is clearly a good thing.  As much of a douche that Dan is, Ron is the opposite.  And Ron can mitigate at least some of the sleaziness-stench that envelopes this franchise.  He clearly can't erase much of it.  But he can override at least some of it via his own integrity.

 

I find it ironic that some stragglers here just can't wait for Ron to go.   I think it would be wild to remove the one dude who actually can polish the turd a little and be stuck with the turd with no burnish.

 

They seem to think that Dan will just find another dude like Ron to head this franchise.  My response to that is where is that confidence coming from?

 

A.  Left to his own devices Dan typically finds a brother in arms like Vinny or Bruce to double down on the rotten culture at least as far as the FO.

 

B.  What coach-FO person known for integrity and class would want to come here?  And that point goes double if Dan fires Ron.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

Really interesting nugget from that anonymous agent quote: “they’re doing what they’re allowed to do under Snyder and following Rivera’s mission”.

 

That’s about as close a direct confirmation of the cash flow issues as you’re going to get. It couldn’t really mean anything else, in context.

 

Also, our suspicion that this decision-making braintrust moves a little slowly bc it all runs through Rivera is directly confirmed as well. Our FO is full of good guys with integrity who have earned respect around the league, but it’s not light on it’s feet or quick to react. 

[88Comrade2000]

30 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

There is an extremely large contingent of folk that think Snyder is a bad man but cannot possibly be the reason that this team has stunk since 1999.

And those fans are delusional.

 

Dan’s the #1 reason we sucked and will continue to suck.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

51 minutes ago, Conn said:

Really interesting nugget from that anonymous agent quote: “they’re doing what they’re allowed to do under Snyder and following Rivera’s mission”.

 

That’s about as close a direct confirmation of the cash flow issues as you’re going to get. It couldn’t really mean anything else, in context.

 

Also, our suspicion that this decision-making braintrust moves a little slowly bc it all runs through Rivera is directly confirmed as well. Our FO is full of good guys with integrity who have earned respect around the league, but it’s not light on it’s feet or quick to react. 

 

I took that quote in a different way: I think it means all FA decisions have to go through Snyder in some way, meaning he's still meddling. It slows down the decision-making process, as by the time Snyder approves of a transaction the FA has already signed with another team.

 

It would certainly explain why this team has sucked since 1999. Even truly bad teams occasionally have good seasons because their owners don't meddle. Heck, the Jaguars even made it to the AFCC Game in 2017, and the Browns even won a road playoff game in 2020. The Bengals last year, obviously. The Colts were a true trainwreck of a team in the 80s because Robert Irsay constantly meddled with the team, even calling in plays himself from the booth and telling the coach who to start at QB.

 

I have a feeling that all coaches who come here have a clause in their contract stating they will not admit to Snyder's meddling.

[Conn]

10 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

I took that quote in a different way: I think it means all FA decisions have to go through Snyder in some way, meaning he's still meddling. It slows down the decision-making process, as by the time Snyder approves of a transaction the FA has already signed with another team.

 

It would certainly explain why this team has sucked since 1999. Even truly bad teams occasionally have good seasons because their owners don't meddle. Heck, the Jaguars even made it to the AFCC Game in 2017, and the Browns even won a road playoff game in 2020. The Bengals last year, obviously. The Colts were a true trainwreck of a team in the 80s because Robert Irsay constantly meddled with the team, even calling in plays himself from the booth and telling the coach who to start at QB.

 

I have a feeling that all coaches who come here have a clause in their contract stating they will not admit to Snyder's meddling.

Every owner has to approve high guaranteed dollar acquisitions, that’s normal. But the extent of the picture that you’re painting here I think is a little bit too conspiracy theoryish for me. Not to say we won’t find out years from now that he meddled with things under Rivera. That’s inevitable to some degree. But I don’t think every FA decision is running through him, no.

[Zim489]

At some point the countering of sleezyness gets brought to the forefront and aptitude and results are what are most important. 3 years in and Rons FO is among the worst in the league 

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

47 minutes ago, Conn said:

Every owner has to approve high guaranteed dollar acquisitions, that’s normal. But the extent of the picture that you’re painting here I think is a little bit too conspiracy theoryish for me. Not to say we won’t find out years from now that he meddled with things under Rivera. That’s inevitable to some degree. But I don’t think every FA decision is running through him, no.

 

I know it sounds a little too conspiracy-ish...I'm just trying to find an explanation for how this team has continued to suck since 1993...I have to accept that Snyder didn't inherit a Super Bowl-caliber team. But you would think this team would have lucked into an NFCC game appearance once or twice at least since 1993, but no.

 

But if I imagine myself as a Lions fan for a moment, I can see it could be so much worse...one playoff victory since 1957. Or the Browns. And until recently the Bills and Bengals. Maybe it isn't so weird:

 

Lions - last championship 1957, last road playoff win 1957, one playoff win since 1957

Browns - last championship 1964, no road playoff wins between 1970-2019

Bengals - no road playoff wins 1968-2020

Cardinals - last championship 1947, no road playoff wins 1933-1997 (beat the Cryboys in 1998!)

Saints - no playoff 1967-1986

Steelers - no playoff wins 1933-1971

Redskins - no playoff appearances 1946-1970

Buccaneers - no playoff appearances 1983-1996

Jets - no playoff appearances 2011-current

Giants - no playoff appearances 1964-1980

Colts - no home playoff wins 1971-2002

 

I guess this team has good company...

 

[goskins10]

41 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

At some point the countering of sleezyness gets brought to the forefront and aptitude and results are what are most important. 3 years in and Rons FO is among the worst in the league 

 

How do you figure the FO is among the worst in the league? LOL  While being respected is not the same as being effective it is a very good step in the right direction and despite the whining he has done a good job with what he has to start with. Not everything works out the way you want it to. That does not mean it was a bad move. Means it didn;t work out. But they have dealt the best they can.

 

The FO has rotted from the core for over 20 yrs. Yet Ron, despite dans ignorance, has been able to at least turn around the reputation among the professionals around the NFL. It takes time. And he will given all he needs. dan is in no position to fire Ron. 

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

 

I know it sounds a little too conspiracy-ish...I'm just trying to find an explanation for how this team has continued to suck since 1993...I have to accept that Snyder didn't inherit a Super Bowl-caliber team. But you would think this team would have lucked into an NFCC game appearance once or twice at least since 1993, but no.

 

But if I imagine myself as a Lions fan for a moment, I can see it could be so much worse...one playoff victory since 1957. Or the Browns. And until recently the Bills and Bengals. Maybe it isn't so weird:

 

Lions - last championship 1957, last road playoff win 1957, one playoff win since 1957

Browns - last championship 1964, no road playoff wins between 1970-2019

Bengals - no road playoff wins 1968-2020

Cardinals - last championship 1947, no road playoff wins 1933-1997 (beat the Cryboys in 1998!)

Saints - no playoff 1967-1986

Steelers - no playoff wins 1933-1971

Redskins - no playoff appearances 1946-1970

Buccaneers - no playoff appearances 1983-1996

Jets - no playoff appearances 2011-current

Giants - no playoff appearances 1964-1980

Colts - no home playoff wins 1971-2002

 

I guess this team has good company...

 

Oh don’t me wrong, it is 100% Snyder. He is the reason we’ve been bad for so long—that and being unable to get a true franchise QB, which he also has been involved in screwing up (many times). I was simply saying I don’t think he currently is having every roster move/signing pass over his desk before Rivera and co. can proceed (just the big money stuff like any other owner). The idea of micromanaging the day to day is what I was pushing back on as too much of a conspiracy theory. 

[88Comrade2000]

Ron should be bumped to team president and still have the authority to pick the Gm, who will pick the coach.

 

Of course Dan, will never do that and I think Ron will want to get out of here, once coaching is over.

[Zim489]

48 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Ron should be bumped to team president and still have the authority to pick the Gm, who will pick the coach.

 

Of course Dan, will never do that and I think Ron will want to get out of here, once coaching is over.

This is what I would guess is best case scenario in the short term. I dont have faith in Ron picking a good GM though. The martys and polian arent good. Stokes is just another Carolina haulover. Get some one from a good organization. 

[Skinsinparadise]

These agents who have praised this FO do not know what they are talking about.  The idea that we have had a good draft based on camp-preseason feedback is just one big illusion.

 

Can't wait until Ron is gone and we bring in Herm Edwards or name that retread who can't get a head coaching job elsewhere these days and Dan finds his new Vinny-Bruce that he can co-opt and make personnel moves together and play put put golf together and drink beers and Crown Royal and laugh about how smart they are and the rest of the NFL are fools. 

 

That's the ticket for success.  Can't wait. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[TChaler70]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

These agents who have praised this FO do not know what they are talking about.  The idea that we have had a good draft based on camp-preseason feedback is just one big illusion.

 

Can't wait until Ron is gone and we bring in Herm Edwards or name that retread who can't get a head coaching job elsewhere these days and Dan finds his new Vinny-Bruce that he can co-opt and make personnel moves together and play put put golf together and drink beers and Crown Royal and laugh about how smart they are and the rest of the NFL are fools. 

 

That's the ticket for success.  Can't wait. 

This is why I am enjoying the Ron time we have, yes he is average, but heck at least we have average. We are in the 7,8, 9 wins season in and season out. Our next coach will be a Zorn or Spurrier, who we dont realize it at the time but we have no chance on a Sundays. We dont get better then this, its a sad fact, us that remember Gibbs teams it is hard to accept. Snyder doesnt see talent in the building much less pick someone outside the building.

[Skinsinparadise]

We can rest easy now

 

 

 

[CommanderCarson]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

These agents who have praised this FO do not know what they are talking about.  The idea that we have had a good draft based on camp-preseason feedback is just one big illusion.

 

Can't wait until Ron is gone and we bring in Herm Edwards or name that retread who can't get a head coaching job elsewhere these days and Dan finds his new Vinny-Bruce that he can co-opt and make personnel moves together and play put put golf together and drink beers and Crown Royal and laugh about how smart they are and the rest of the NFL are fools. 

 

That's the ticket for success.  Can't wait. 

I totally agree with what you’re saying, but to be fair, no one thought we could get Rivera in here after Bruce. No one ever thought we’d get a Shanny after Zorn. I’m not saying it’s guaranteed, and maybe it’s a couple guys in between before we get there, just pointing out that Dan has a track record at this point of being able to attract big time names even with everything surrounding him. Is that different now with what’s come out recently? I tend to doubt it but maybe.

[NickyJ]

I loathed Jay Gruden and took every chance to drive the bus over him, back it up, and drive it over him again. But it was easy to tell that he was a symptom of Snyder and Allen, not a cause. I was thrilled when Gruden got fired, and even more thrilled on Bruce left.

 

If Ron gets fired, it'll be as close as I get to giving up on the team completely. Ron has had to fight tooth and nail against both his own health and against the sewage overflowing from the owner. I simply can't grasp how people can look at what Ron has had to fight through, how much respect the team has only because of what Ron has done, and then point at it all and say "someone else can do it better". Who? Who is willing to sign on to this team and do it better?

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, CommanderCarson said:

I totally agree with what you’re saying, but to be fair, no one thought we could get Rivera in here after Bruce. No one ever thought we’d get a Shanny after Zorn. I’m not saying it’s guaranteed, and maybe it’s a couple guys in between before we get there, just pointing out that Dan has a track record at this point of being able to attract big time names even with everything surrounding him. Is that different now with what’s come out recently? I tend to doubt it but maybe.

 

I've responded to this specific point many times on this thread.  In short, its a different scene.

 

Ron didn't take the job after or even in the midst of the bad culture reaching epic levels of national scrutiny -- sexual harassment-Congressional inquiry.  He came pre that.

 

He's even said multiple times including this year, its always something new that hits this franchise, he expects the next shoe to drop.  When he said it it didn't come off like a dude who thinks its amusing.   I really doubt it that he would have taken this job if that was his perception from the jump.

 

Yes Dan has been a douche forever.  Unfortunately for Ron, it looks like Gibbs vouched for Dan.   But the sexual harassmanet law suits, Congressional investigations, etc happened AFTER Ron took the job.

 

As bad as 2019 Dan was.  He reached Freddy Krueger level bad after that when this team became a national headline in ways that took the dyfunction and sleaze narrative to new sad heights.  

 

So no I don't think that the perception of this job in 2023 is the same as 2019.  Don't get me wrong, 2019 wasn't hot at all, but now its at a new level.  And my larger point is if Dan fires arguably one of the pillars of integrity and class in the NFL -- I don't think it will go over well in the league.  When you factor that and the other pile of crap that you inherit with this team -- bad owner, awful facilities, bad stadium, bleeding fan base -- this job has become IMO incrementally worse over time. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

There is an extremely large contingent of folk that think Snyder is a bad man but cannot possibly be the reason that this team has stunk since 1999.

 

I was in the "Snyder is a bad man but not necessarily the reason this team has stunk since 1999" camp until about 2014 lol...I was basically an agnostic.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

I was in the "Snyder is a bad man but not necessarily the reason this team has stunk since 1999" camp until about 2014 lol...I was basically an agnostic.

It took me awhile. I was similar. I thought his stench effected us... but I didn't think it meant doom.

 

I now think that we are capable of a good season or two and being a contender for a year or two... max. Then it spirals. That's our ceiling. But we tend to live on the stairs to the first floor in a three floor home.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

It took me awhile. I was similar. I thought his stench effected us... but I didn't think it meant doom.

 

I now think that we are capable of a good season or two and being a contender for a year or two... max. Then it spirals. That's our ceiling. But we tend to live on the stairs to the first floor in a three floor home.

 

 

There you go, exactly lol..