The Infrastructure Thread (formerly BI: America's infrastructure is decaying)

[PleaseBlitz]

Lots of details to be worked out before I'll consider this a success.  

[Jumbo]

1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Lots of details to be worked out before I'll consider this a success.  

  

 

i know pundits will focus on all the very real challenges to actually getting it into law and harp more on the 'nay' side of the effort as has been the case already, but i think it's already an important success even if the bill eventually fails

 

it's better in signficant ways that they can even show this result than if it had just been blown up, when thinking long term strategy for the big picture...it positively affects the narrative and analysis as other things move forward

 

even this level of 'accomplishment' and the msg-sending it allows will appeal  as 'the good effort, arduous work, bipartisan, sane pros really  trying etc etc'  to the entire broad, multi-demographic, coalition that is their current base

 

and i also think it helps joe look more right-on to all on that side except the more progressives...and for all his old guy fumbling verbally in pressers, i think he's showing quite a masters level intellect in his analyses and then still conveys his views in his 'common way' of speaking on them ..

[skinsmarydu]

What Jumbo said. 

He's actually doing a masterful job. 

Once in a while, I actually sleep.  

[China]

Just annoying that Congress will dawdle and go on vacation and the whole thing won't get worked out and signed (if it does) until September (3 months).  That's lame.  These assholes need to put in some work.

[88Comrade2000]

The deal is dead? Joe Manchin says he didn’t agree to pass a second bill thru reconciliation . 
 

If Biden can’t get both bills passed; then his presidency is effectively over and will be nothing more than a zombie presidency for rest of his term.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 hours ago, Jumbo said:

  

 

i know pundits will focus on all the very real challenges to actually getting it into law and harp more on the 'nay' side of the effort as has been the case already, but i think it's already an important success even if the bill eventually fails

 

it's better in signficant ways that they can even show this result than if it had just been blown up, when thinking long term strategy for the big picture...it positively affects the narrative and analysis as other things move forward

 

even this level of 'accomplishment' and the msg-sending it allows will appeal  as 'the good effort, arduous work, bipartisan, sane pros really  trying etc etc'  to the entire broad, multi-demographic, coalition that is their current base

 

and i also think it helps joe look more right-on to all on that side except the more progressives...and for all his old guy fumbling verbally in pressers, i think he's showing quite a masters level intellect in his analyses and then still conveys his views in his 'common way' of speaking on them ..

I thibk people want results, not process. This is process in the right direction, but hollow without results. 
 

And of course one result could be that the GOP is just trying to use the process to run out the clock (eg, “the midterm is in less than a year, so we can’t do anything until after the people vote”). 

 

So, not yet close to any meaningful success for me…yet. 

58 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

The deal is dead? Joe Manchin says he didn’t agree to pass a second bill thru reconciliation . 
 

If Biden can’t get both bills passed; then his presidency is effectively over and will be nothing more than a zombie presidency for rest of his term.

Link?

[tshile]

Um. I preface this with - I have no idea what I’m talking about, and obviously Biden is a great politician see: his career

 

this is garbage. 

 

570 b out of 1.2 t is new spending, which doesn’t come from raising taxes but instead comes from bogus budget games. The rest is money already allocated to infrastructure 
 

sorry. Smells like garbage to me. 
 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by tshile

[tshile]

2 hours ago, Jumbo said:

but i think it's already an important success even if the bill eventually fails

the only legitimate excuse I can think of is that the plan is to show the republicans won’t even vote for this. 
 

the problem is that this strategy depends on there being a sizable portion of “them” that would see this and thinks “gee, maybe they’ve been right and I need to change who I support”

 

that doesn’t exist. If hypocrisy, bad faith and bad governance mattered to this people then we wouldn’t be in this mess. 

[bearrock]

They still need 5 more GOP votes.  I don't know where they get that.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

Biden opened his speech with “let me be clear the other side got everything they wanted”

Pretty sure he opened with “Nobody got everything they wanted”. This small detail might affect the rest of your post. 😂

[tshile]

6 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Pretty sure he opened with “Nobody got everything they wanted”. This small detail might affect the rest of your post. 😂
 

 

 

God damnit thank you. I’ll fix that. 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by tshile

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Why would any republicans support this if Dems are just announcing they’re gonna pass their stuff thru reconciliation anyway? 
 

the answer is they won’t. This isn’t getting passed and if it does it’s because they have confirmations from Manchin and others that they will torpedo a reconciliation bill

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Shocking. Absolutely stupid plan to broadcast this for weeks and then run victory laps around the reconciliation bill. Dems are ****ing dumb. That’s back door handshake stuff and not plans that you announce at press conferences. GOP has no incentive to act on a small bipartisan deal now 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Momma There Goes That Man

[bearrock]

16 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Shocking. Absolutely stupid plan to broadcast this for weeks and then run victory laps around the reconciliation bill. Dems are ****ing dumb. That’s back door handshake stuff and not plans that you announce at press conferences. GOP has no incentive to act on a small bipartisan deal now 

 

 

 

I think it's one of two things.  The reconciliation move never had Manchin's support to begin with, so this is an artificial bargaining chip to get 5 more GOP votes (we'll take recon off the table for the a bipartisan infrastructure).

 

Or Manchin promised to support reconciliation but needs the political cover of "we couldn't even get more than 5 GOP senators on board for a compromise bill".

 

If this bill fails and the reconciliation doesn't go through, then yeah, I agree it's a huge gaffe.

Edited June 25, 2021 by bearrock

[Momma There Goes That Man]

15 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

I think it's one of two things.  The reconciliation move never had Manchin's support to begin with, so this is an artificial bargaining chip to get 5 more GOP votes (we'll take recon off the table for the a bipartisan infrastructure).

 

Or Manchin promised to support reconciliation but needs the political cover of "we couldn't even get more than 5 GOP senators on board for a compromise bill".

 

If this bill fails and the reconciliation doesn't go through, then yeah, I agree it's a huge gaffe.

I’ll let it play out but nothing in my 34 year life leads me to believe Dems are capable of  doing anything that clever 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Momma There Goes That Man

[tshile]

This is reason 1.b why I don’t like the democrats 

 

****ing idiots. 

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, tshile said:

This is reason 1.b why I don’t like the democrats 

 

****ing idiots. 

They are *******.  That’s when you get geriatrics , controlling most of leadership positions in the Dem party.

[88Comrade2000]

On 6/24/2021 at 5:29 PM, PleaseBlitz said:

I thibk people want results, not process. This is process in the right direction, but hollow without results. 
 

And of course one result could be that the GOP is just trying to use the process to run out the clock (eg, “the midterm is in less than a year, so we can’t do anything until after the people vote”). 

 

So, not yet close to any meaningful success for me…yet. 

Link?

I correct my statement.  That was something I heard on the news but Joe is noncommittal to a 2nd bill. He may or may not support a bill.

 

Manchin won't commit to voting for an infrastructure bill without GOP support: 'I don't think that's fair'  

 

Reading that, seems unlikely Joe M would say yes.

 

Though yesterday, Joe M said something different:

 

Manchin says Democratic-only infrastructure bill 'inevitable'

Edited June 26, 2021 by Rdskns2000

[China]

Bernie Sanders said he'd oppose a $3 trillion Democrat-only infrastructure plan since it's 'much too low,' potentially setting up spending showdown with Manchin

 

Sen. Bernie Sanders indicated that he would oppose a Democrat-only spending bill if its price tag didn't top $3 trillion, brushing anything lower as too meager. It may set the stage for a confrontation between Sanders and moderate Democrats looking to restrain the size of a follow-up package.

 

In an interview with New York Times opinion columnist Maureen Dowd published Saturday, the Vermont senator ruled out backing a party-line infrastructure plan that amounted to either $2 trillion or $3 trillion.

 

"That's much too low," he told Dowd. He also pulled out a list of his priorities for a reconciliation package.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Bernie is smart and playing this up so he can “settle” in defeat for a 2-3 trillion Dem only plan, giving Manchin a win
 

He may be one of the few on the left that I trust to handle this correctly 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Momma There Goes That Man

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Larry]

Not sure how "Add dental plan to Medicare" is "Infrastructure". Sounds more like "Dem goodie bag, 1.0". 
 

Not opposed to the idea. Just be honest about the label. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

It’s never getting passed 

[Cooked Crack]

Excuse me, but how do you push a bridge?

Edited July 15, 2021 by Cooked Crack

[Larry]

5 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

Excuse me, but how do you push a bridge?

 

Ram the span with a 70 MPH fully loaded Semi?  

 

I'm wondering how they got the semi up high enough to hit the span.  Pretty sure those things usually stay on the ground.  Something to do with gravity.