Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[dunfer]

4 hours ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

 Think the call on the Wilson penalty was the correct call. He didn’t have to push him and he didn’t have that much momentum that he couldn’t stop.

 

However, I have seen him do this multiple times throughout his professional career and not be flagged. I see other guys do it and not be flagged. The thing I would like to see is the consistency in callin that a penalty. Either it is or it isn’t. 

whats the benefit of pushing a qb after hes gotten rid of the ball. To maybe get "lucky" and he gets hurt falling? That **** doesnt fly anymore...hit him when hes got the ball. The consistency youre looking for though is based on how much $ the QB makes. Ticky tack, but be smart and you avoid it.

Chase looked good yesterday

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I had previously been pretty confident that we could keep both if we wanted to, and then Bosa signed for like $34m. 

 

 

But the wildcard here is that it now looks like we have a QB. And that changes the dynamic in two ways. We can use our early-draft capital next year on positions NOT QB, and we can use our $100m in projected cap space on NOT a QB. That means you can address the OL in the draft with "cheap" young talent. Then use the $100m to extend Curl, Sweat, Young and still have a solid amount of $$ to put toward other holes and needs. 

 

Having Howell as the QB under a REALLY low rookie contract for 2024 and 2025 will give us some major cap flexibility. Look at all the $$ the 49ers are spending on their defense and offensive weapons and what having Purdy as their long-term QB is allowing them to do. I also think they have the most cap space currently in the NFL even after the Bosa extension. So we are set up really nicely to sign both and not really "sacrifice" elsewhere, unless of course a top-tier LT is available in FA (unlikely) and you can't get them because you put that $$ toward DE. 

 

1st: LT

2nd: LB

3rd: DB

4th: OT

 

FA: Extend Sweat, Young, Curl

 

And you probably still have about $40-60m in cap space depending on how those extensions are structured to address other needs or roll into the future. 

 

Yep if Howell really is the guy then there is no excuse not to resign all our big cornerstone players.

[Renegade7]

I wouldn't use 49ers as an example to not keep money aside for the eventual deal Howell will demand.

 

This in context he doesn't push for it earlier then we except.

 

49ers have been to two super bowls recently and lost both of them to teams with better QB's.

 

This is the undeniable truth about the NFL no matter how far away from it we try to look.

 

We don't have as much as we think when we don't have an oline then have to extend not only Curl and Sweat but Forrest as well.

 

It sucks, but Young has to go...at best we're talkin a two year deal until Howell can be in proper position to force our hand if he wants based on his trajectory, but Young will want more then that.

 

It's not about how much money Howell makes, it's the percentage of the cap he and other QB's are taking, it's growing, it will be worse when it's time to pay him because NFL is in total denial of how out of control this is getting because they want to advertise QB vs QB like NBA advertised stars vs stars.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Renegade7

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 9/17/2023 at 12:59 PM, method man said:

Standig is ****ing annoying. Hope he gets transferred to go cover the Ravens

You could just ignore him. 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You could just ignore him. 

 

You can do that? Jus ignore people you find annoying?

 

Where has this wisdom been all my life???

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

You can do that? Jus ignore people you find annoying?

 

Where has this wisdom been all my life???

I’m here to provide a service to all.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m here to provide a service to all.

 

That's what she said...

[dunfer]

50 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I wouldn't use 49ers as an example to not keep money aside for the eventual deal Howell will demand.

 

This in context he doesn't push for it earlier then we except.

 

49ers have been to two super bowls recently and lost both of them to teams with better QB's.

 

This is the undeniable truth about the NFL no matter how far away from it we try to look.

 

We don't have as much as we think when we don't have an oline then have to extend not only Curl and Sweat but Forrest as well.

 

It sucks, but Young has to go...at best we're talkin a two year deal until Howell can be in proper position to force our hand if he wants based on his trajectory, but Young will want more then that.

 

It's not about how much money Howell makes, it's the percentage of the cap he and other QB's are taking, it's growing, it will be worse when it's time to pay him because NFL is in total denial of how out of control this is getting because they want to advertise QB vs QB like NBA advertised stars vs stars.

Young may want more but whos going to give it to him? More power to him if he can get it based on his college career

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

We don't have as much as we think when we don't have an oline then have to extend not only Curl and Sweat but Forrest as well.

 

Well, if we move on from Leno that puts us at $112m I believe. 

 

And in that scenario I am adding a LT in Round 1. I know you don't want to go into the draft drafting for need. So you keep Leno, and take the best OT available through 2 rounds. And if the LT is out of R1 and you feel good about him starting early-on, you can cut Leno. That 1st round rookie salary for 4 years is way below what you will pay on the market for a FA. Having LT, CB2, CB3 and WR2 on rookie contracts helps immensely when allocating money elsewhere.

 

Even if Sweat and Young got massive extensions, you're still talking about $20m in cap hits for each one in Year 1 and likely Year 2. Yes you have to pay Curl, and then Forrest in 2025. But at that point you'll be restructuring Jonathan Allen ... releasing Nick Gates ... releasing Andrew Whylie ... not signing Kendall Fuller and Curtis Samuel to extensions. 

 

If you draft well in 2024 and 2025, you can fill those holes fairly easily along with some of the $$ we will have available after major signings. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[dunfer]

16 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Well, if we move on from Leno that puts us at $112m I believe. 

 

And in that scenario I am adding a LT in Round 1. I know you don't want to go into the draft drafting for need. So you keep Leno, and take the best OT available through 2 rounds. And if the LT is out of R1 and you feel good about him starting early-on, you can cut Leno. That 1st round rookie salary for 4 years is way below what you will pay on the market for a FA. Having LT, CB2, CB3 and WR2 on rookie contracts helps immensely when allocating money elsewhere.

 

Even if Sweat and Young got massive extensions, you're still talking about $20m in cap hits for each one in Year 1 and likely Year 2. Yes you have to pay Curl, and then Forrest in 2025. But at that point you'll be restructuring Jonathan Allen ... releasing Nick Gates ... releasing Andrew Whylie ... not signing Kendall Fuller and Curtis Samuel to extensions. 

 

If you draft well in 2024 and 2025, you can fill those holes fairly easily along with some of the $$ we will have available after major signings. 

Im sorry but these guys havent done ****. Talking about massive extensions....Win a ****ing playoff game.

[kingdaddy]

Question for you cap/salary experts: Does the fact that we have next to nothing invested in the QB position allow us to keep Chase/Montez/Curl on new deals next season and beyond or does that depend on how Howell plays this season? I know Chase needs to step up his game too but if he does is there a chance we franchise either him or Sweat if we don't sign them both long term? I'm thinking there is, especially since both are high draft picks we invested in, especially Chase who hasn't been on the field that much.

[Renegade7]

@JamesMadisonSkins

 

I have more optimism in us navigating the specifics of "making it work" then the specific examples you provided.

 

I don't like expecting to restructure anyone, especially if they are more then meeting their big ass contract.

 

I would not plan to let Samuels walk completely unless I know we had folks behind him ready to step up, like Dyami, or a legit TE.

 

Up until this point the highest we've drafted oline in a single draft since Ron took over was 2nd. In 2022 the first pick toward oline didn't come until the last round of the draft.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Commanders_draft_history

 

Saying we can easily just invest some picks in the oline is the opposite of what we've done since Rivers has come here, part of why we in this problem in the first place, and why I'm reluctant to call it "easy" for them to do.

[Voice_of_Reason]

36 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Question for you cap/salary experts: Does the fact that we have next to nothing invested in the QB position allow us to keep Chase/Montez/Curl on new deals next season and beyond or does that depend on how Howell plays this season? I know Chase needs to step up his game too but if he does is there a chance we franchise either him or Sweat if we don't sign them both long term? I'm thinking there is, especially since both are high draft picks we invested in, especially Chase who hasn't been on the field that much.

Good question.  Howell is committed to his rookie contract through the 2024 season.  That would be 3 years. Then he can be extended.  He cannot be extended before the end of his third year.  He's locked into his rookie deal per the CBA until then.  

 

If he's a franchise QB then he will HAVE to be extended before the 2025 season even though he has 1 year remaining on his deal.  You just saw the same exact scenario play out with McLaurin:  3rd round pick, so no 5th year option.  He had to get a new deal before his 4th year because he wasn't going to play on the expiring contract, and it's money you never get back. (Point in fact, I'm SHOCKED Curl is playing on his expiring contract.  But he doesn't quite have the leverage Terry did, or Howell will.)

 

So, then it comes down to structure of the extension.  You could do what the Eagles did with Hurts, which is essentially punt the entire cap hit into the 2030's by using voided years, roster bonuses, and other tools to postpone the cap hit. They're going to probably field a Junior College team for a few years because it's possible 60-70% of their cap will be dead cap space due to voided years, but that's a problem for them in 3-5 years.  For now, they're in great shape.  

 

You could be more conservative (and somewhat more old-fashioned) and pay a large signing bonus and spread the hit across the term of the contract.  In which case Howell's 4th year would be his rookie contract salary + 1/5th (if a 5 year extension) of the signing bonus. So probably around $20m-ish.  

 

Regardless, the good news from a cap perspective is Howell costs BEANS on the cap in 2024 no matter what, so that gives them a lot of flexibility.  

 

BUT a good FO will also look 1-3 years down the road and know they are going to have to pay Howell starting in 2025, so they need to figure out how that works with any extension they give Sweat and/or Young.  

 

It's a VERY good position to be in, to be sure.  But it's a 2 year position including this year.  

 

Make sense?

[redskinss]

This new dream team front office isn't going to want to look incompetent in their first offseason. 

I have full confidence they'll figure out how to keep chase and sweat if they continue to ball this year or they'll get something in trade for one of them by extending one mid-season and tagging the other.

 

Either way if they both play well enough to deserve a big extension it'll be a good problem to have that I'm sure they'll work out.

[SoCalSkins]

37 minutes ago, redskinss said:

This new dream team front office isn't going to want to look incompetent in their first offseason. 

I have full confidence they'll figure out how to keep chase and sweat if they continue to ball this year or they'll get something in trade for one of them by extending one mid-season and tagging the other.

 

Either way if they both play well enough to deserve a big extension it'll be a good problem to have that I'm sure they'll work out.

Keeping both requires a cheap QB. As long as Sam keeps progressing, he is working for peanuts and we can afford to spend on Sweat and Chase. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

It's a VERY good position to be in, to be sure.  But it's a 2 year position including this year.  

 

Make sense?

The cap space issue is less of a concern for me as much as the reality of the timing. You can tag Chase and extend Sweat. But if both players want to hit the open market to test their value, we could lose them. You see that less in the NFL with the Tag than you do in baseball, but it’s easier said than done to get any extensions in. 
 

Howell is going to have a $1 ish million cap hit through 2025. Yes we could extend him and put some of that cap into 2025 to lessen the future burdens but even so you’re talking maybe $20-21m hit in 2025 when the market will likely dictate $40+ for a starting caliber QB. And we have the franchise tag option. Hopefully he’s the real deal and we get an extension before playing the tag game. 
 

but with an ever expanding cap beyond 2024/2025 with the tv deals, we’ll have tons of cap space. We can easily extend sweat curl and young and make it work. 
 

Now, you are going to have to keep nailing the draft and hopefully whoever the new FO is will value picks and the OL more than the current regime. 
 

But we are in a very good position. We can make it work IF we want to, assuming Sam continues to prove himself as the future and longterm starter. Having $100+m and a full slate of picks with a rookie 5th round contract QB is a dream scenario regardless of who you have coming due for extensions. 
 

OTC has us at:

2024: $96m cap space

2025: $155m cap space

2026: $250m cap space 

 

yes that means we don’t have many players under contract in 2025-2026. Draft classes can and will restock the roster and we will need to extend many of our defenders and young offensive weapons. But the $$ will be there for a new FO to play with. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Warhead36]

If you're not paying a QB there is no excuse to not pay other guys. Heck there are teams paying their QBs and STILL paying other guys. 

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

If you're not paying a QB there is no excuse to not pay other guys. Heck there are teams paying their QBs and STILL paying other guys. 

 

We're not even paying the other guys really.  We've got three kind of but not really big contracts touching about 20 million AAV.  The rest of our highest paid players are all like low teens.  That's nothing.  We absolutely can afford to pay two high end edges. A big deal by current market standards is approaching 30 million AAV.  50 million for QBs.  20 million AAV is cheap for perennial Probowler type talent, which Allen, Payne, and McLaurin are.

 

Where teams get into trouble, and where we have in the past, is paying 20+ million AAV for shaky free agents.  Draft well, keep your own studs at whatever it costs, and bargain hunt in free agency.  That is the way to do it.

[Koolblue13]

We have a ton of cap and are most likely about to have a very forward thinking GM and great money people. 

 

If we don't keep any of our studs, it's only because we either didn't want to or because they over valued themselves.

 

I don't understand why the "we can't sign both" blabber always comes up. We can and always have had the ability to do so.

[tmandoug1]

If Howell looks like he is going to be our franchise guy at the end of this year behind this Oline, we should lock him up for 10 years asap.  Extend him, write up a new deal, whatever it takes. I would let Chase and Montez go if Howell turns out to be the man. Draft two stud oline guys in Round 1 and 2 next year. See how that works, this **** is easy. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Ran a quick calculation on OTC.

1. Franchise Chase Young ($21.6m)

2. Extend Sweat (5 years, $150m - $30m APY)

3. Extend Curl (5 years, $75m - $15m APY)

 

Remaining Cap Space 2024: $44.6m

Remaining Cap Space 2025: $119.3m

Remaining Cap Space 2026: $213.4m

 

Still have a lot of free agents, particularly on defense, but we can get it done and still have $$ to spend in forward years.

 

I don't expect we extend both Sweat and Young but OTC doesn't let me tag Young in 2024 and then extend him in 2025 to see the impact, so I just threw in a slightly lesser extension in 2024 for Young to see the impact:

1. Extend Young (5 years, $135m - $27m APY)

2. Extend Sweat (5 years, $150m - $30m APY)

3. Extend Curl (5 years, $75m - $15m APY)

 

Remaining Cap Space in 2024: $51.2m

Remaining Cap Space in 2025: $95.3m

Remaining Cap Space in 2026: $186.4m

Edited September 19, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said:

If Howell looks like he is going to be our franchise guy at the end of this year behind this Oline, we should lock him up for 10 years asap.  Extend him, write up a new deal, whatever it takes. I would let Chase and Montez go if Howell turns out to be the man. Draft two stud oline guys in Round 1 and 2 next year. See how that works, this **** is easy. 

We can't "lock him up for 10 years" until after 2024.

 

We'll most likely be drafting OT in the first.

 

We will have no major contracts for DB, OT or QB for a few years.

 

That means we can easily resign Chase, Sweat, Curl and maybe even Fuller without issue and still be active in FA.

 

I will never understand why their contracts is what is always brought up after a good game. 

 

Pairing one of the best bookend DEs tandems and the best IDL tandem on the same DL is an insane luxury that will win you a lot of games.

 

Also to keep in mind, we are one of the youngest teams in the league, which is prime for roster building. 

 

 

[frontline205]

1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said:

If Howell looks like he is going to be our franchise guy at the end of this year behind this Oline, we should lock him up for 10 years asap.  Extend him, write up a new deal, whatever it takes. I would let Chase and Montez go if Howell turns out to be the man. Draft two stud oline guys in Round 1 and 2 next year. See how that works, this **** is easy. 

That would be an excellent plan. The only issue I can see is that there tends to be a trend now where teams are restructuring QB contracts even when they don’t have to. So even if we sign him early if he turns out to be the man we might have to keep giving him new money every 1-2 years anyway. Negating the saving from signing him early. If this current NFL trend continues 

[tmandoug1]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

We can't "lock him up for 10 years" until after 2024.

 

We'll most likely be drafting OT in the first.

 

We will have no major contracts for DB, OT or QB for a few years.

 

That means we can easily resign Chase, Sweat, Curl and maybe even Fuller without issue and still be active in FA.

 

I will never understand why their contracts is what is always brought up after a good game. 

 

Pairing one of the best bookend DEs tandems and the best IDL tandem on the same DL is an insane luxury that will win you a lot of games.

 

Also to keep in mind, we are one of the youngest teams in the league, which is prime for roster building. 

 

 

So we can't do a contract extension on Howell? Not savy on how that works so I will go with what you are saying.  Bear in mind, I am talking about him being the guy. That means future top 10 QB potential. I am by no means saying he is even close to that at this time. I was just making a statement about the only reason we wouldn't sign Chase and Sweat. But if we have the money to do so that's great. But if Howell shows promise he is the priority IMO.

[PlayAction]

I don't think that either Chase Young or Sweat has earned a massive contract just yet.  One of them needs to step up and dominate to earn the big bucks.  I haven't seen it yet.  Hoping for a new GM to make those decisions for the team because I don't have any faith in the front office.