JLC: Kyle Shanahan, staff inexperience at core of Redskins dysfunction (blast from the past) M.E.T.

[Tsailand]

As we once again spend December watching our team play out the string of meaningless games, I hope the mods are OK with me digging up this ridiculous LaCanfora hit piece from exactly six years ago.  It sure aged well!

 

Quote

Redskins offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, son of head coach Mike Shanahan, has not endeared himself to others on the staff and within Redskins Park, according to numerous team sources. According to current and former staff members, Kyle Shanahan has been granted virtual autonomy by Mike Shanahan to guide the team.

 

“Kyle is the head coach, it’s just that no one knows he is,” said one member of the organization. “He gets whatever he wants. And he has no relationship at all with (quarterback Robert Griffin II). So how could it work?”

 

“Kyle [complains] about everything, and then his father has to fix it. He [complains] about the food in the cafeteria, he [complains] about the field, he [complains] about the equipment. He complains and then Mike takes care of it. Kyle is a big problem there. He is not well liked.” 

 

Kyle already showing some of the traits that would make him a successful NFL head coach. He should have been promoted instead of fired. 

 

It gets better:

 

Quote

“This is the NFL, it’s not supposed to be a training ground for coaches,” said someone who has worked with Kyle Shanahan in Washington. “It’s ridiculous. Look at this staff. It sucks. Mike’s best buddy is (longtime Shanahan assistant and current linebackers coach Bob Slowik), and Slowik’s son is in his second year out of college and he’s on the staff. Everyone on the staff is in his first or second year except for Mike and Kyle and Haslett (defensive coordinator Jim Haslett) and Raheem (Morris, the secondary coach), and everyone knows Raheem is there because he is close with Kyle. Those two go way back.

 

“Kyle’s not that confident, so they set him up with a bunch of yes men rather than have some experienced coaches to push him. It’s like Kyle is the pied piper and these kids just follow him around. I mean, Mike has been a head coach for 20 years -- usually a guy like that has a posse he can bring with him. So he’s got Bobby Turner (running backs coach) here, and Slowik, and that’s it. How does that happen? How does he end up hiring all of his son’s buddies?

 

 

“What Mike has allowed to happen there, with that staff, there is no excuse for. There are guys on that staff who are just not qualified, and it shows up. Have you seen the quarterback develop? Look at (defensive ends Brian) Orakpo and (Ryan) Kerrigan? Are they progressing or regressing? Are you seeing the offensive lineman they drafted making it to the field?’ How many players are getting the kind of NFL coaching you’d expect on that staff?”

 

Quarterbacks coach Matt LaFleur worked with Kyle Shanahan in Houston and had only two years experience as an “offensive assistant” with the Texans prior to becoming the Redskins QB coach. Similarly, receivers coach Mike McDaniel was a lower-level assistant on the Texans staff before coming to Washington. Tight ends coach Sean McVay’s only prior NFL experience to joining Washington came in 2008 as an offensive assistant in Tampa.

 

 

“McVay is really the only one of those kids qualified to do what he’s doing,” said one member of the organization.

 

 

* Bobby Slowik (the son) is an offensive assistant for the 49ers now.

* Raheem Morris is the DBs coach for the Falcons, has been coaching in the NFL at some level for the past 17 years.

* Matt LaFleur is 10-3 in his first season as head coach of the Packers.

* Mike McDaniel is the run game coordinator for the 49ers.
* Sean McVay (the article implied he was only qualified to be a tight ends coach) was promoted to Redskins OC a month later, and became the Rams head coach three years after that.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyle-shanahan-staff-inexperience-at-core-of-redskins-dysfunction/

[Riggo-toni]

I always felt that we hired the wrong Shanahan. I was never a fan of Lobsterman, and what Kyle did for the Texans offense with second rate QBs was very impressive. As soon as it became known Shammy Sr was getting double duties as GM and hired Haslett as DC, it was obvious he had learned nothing from his decade of post-Elway failure.

[Veryoldschool]

 

Tsailand,

 

Thanks for posting this article.  It is shocking that the Redskins had that much talent in the building.  I can imagine a highly successful alternative timeline where the Skins don't waste all those draft choices and time Griffin instead Mike Shanny builds a successful team around Cousins that he turns over to Kyle. 

[NickyJ]

I was one of the people annoyed with Kyle Shanaclan after 2013. I could admit that I was wrong about him. But I'm not. I'm going to handle this the childish way and criticize him for how he handled his Super Bowl.

 

[TSO]

Yup.
 

2013 was really when I started digging in and researching more about Front Offices in the NFL and how the organizational structure looks from the vast majority of successful franchises both long term or even short term. 
 

It’s when I learned just how much coaching in the NFL is over-emphasized, just how much they need to be set up for success organizationally, the issues with making the HC role/title the most powerful one outside of the owner, and how these guys can and will be targeted vehemently by media/fanbases who don’t know anything, but are brainwashed by owners and executives into thinking it’s all on them. The most convenient scapegoats. 
 

Totally changed me as a fan and, unfortunately, made it impossible to just turn a blind eye to Snyder’s incredibly negative impact on everything. 
 

It’s fascinating to read stuff like that again. And it’s just as discouraging to see the same type of nonsense proliferated to this day.
 

Thanks for posting it.  
 

Btw, I edited the title to adhere to rule 10 better, as well as make it more accurate that it’s an older article. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Yup.
 

2013 was really when I started digging in and researching more about Front Offices in the NFL and how the organizational structure looks from the vast majority of successful franchises both long term or even short term. 
 

It’s when I learned just how much coaching in the NFL is over-emphasized, just how much they need to be set up for success organizationally, the issues with making the HC role/title the most powerful one outside of the owner, and how these guys can and will be targeted vehemently by fanbases who don’t know anything, but are brainwashed by owners and executives into thinking it’s all on them. The most convenient scapegoats. 
 

It’s fascinating to read stuff like that again. And it’s just as discouraging to see the same type of nonsense proliferated to this day.
 

Thanks for posting it.  

 

I'll quibble with the coaching being over emphasized point. But only a little. ANd jusut because I enjoy these types of discussions and for not much else.

 

I think a strong minded head coach who has a keen sense of personnel is never over emphasized.

 

Take, for example, Bill Belichick. That guy has turned chicken **** into chicken salad many times. Andy Reid is another. Gibbs in his second tenure here was another (though, his personnel stuff was lacking, his coaching did help get the team to the playoffs).

 

But the reason this is only a minor quibble is because I absolutely agree with your overarching point here: If you don't have a structure that supports the guy that you hire and put into place, it doesn't matter who is coaching the team.

 

Bill Belichick could come to DC tomorrow, and if Allen/Snyder made decisions without his input and forced players and certain decisions on him, we'd be only marginally better. We would never be able to repeat "The Patriot Way". Conversely, and this is my quibble, I'm not sure a team like the Patriots ever turns into the Patriots without Bill Belichick being the guy that they structure their organizational philosophy around.

 

But, like I said, its a minor quibble and your main point I could not agree with more:

 

Your organizational structure matters. Individual positions within that structure don't matter. It's the sum of the parts, not the single cog.

[TSO]

@KDawg Maybe I’ll get into it another time as to why I think those examples you gave (Belichick, Reid, Gibbs) not only don’t hurt my point, but actually further prove it big time... but I’ve got too much on my plate right now. 
 

I’ve actually went over those three recently in some of the posts I’ve made on the topic here over the last couple months if you’d like to see the counter to it. Can just look at my posting history, not much you’ve got to scour through to find it.  
 

But, yeah, I’m glad you understand the overarching point. And even if you were 100% right about how you view those examples, which I don’t believe is the case even with them, they’d still be an anomaly more than the general rule. Which you understand, clearly.  

[dicksogj]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Bill Belichick could come to DC tomorrow, and if Allen/Snyder made decisions without his input and forced players and certain decisions on him, we'd be only marginally better. We would never be able to repeat "The Patriot Way". Conversely, and this is my quibble, I'm not sure a team like the Patriots ever turns into the Patriots without Bill Belichick being the guy that they structure their organizational philosophy around.

 

 

 

Agree.  These micro managing owners always appear to not want to fully turn power over to anyhow no matter how high profile or successful.  IMO the best example was when Parcells coached the Cowboys.  That should have been very successful but was doomed from the start. Both Snyder & Jerry Jones appear to want success, but they both also appear to want to have their employees be puppets.

 

Maybe Snyder will have a revelation one of these days & realize that he isn't getting any younger & needs to relinquish control if he is ever going to accomplish the ultimate goal of winning a championship.  If not then again I really question this idea presented many times by the media that the guy "really wants to win".  No doubt he wants to win, but if REALLY wants to win consistently then he needs to get out of the way.

[88Comrade2000]

All Dan cares about is being able to jock sniff and making $$$$$$$.

[Riggo-toni]

Coaches who have a "keen sense of personnel" like Belichik, Reid, or Pete Carroll are the exception.  Most overestimate their own abilities and suck at it. Seifert was the winningest (%) coach in NFL history until he left SF to go to Carolina so he could do dual duties. Gibbs, God bless him, was terrible - two firsts for Desmond Howard, 1,3,4 for Campbell, 1 and 3 for a washed up Riggs. Holmgren failed with the Seahawks until they fired him as GM and retained him as coach. He subsequently failed horribly as GM for the Browns.  Schotferbrains had one of the very worst of the Snyder era drafts in 2001. Shanahan was only good at drafting offensive skill players.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Riggo-toni said:

Coaches who have a "keen sense of personnel" like Belichik, Reid, or Pete Carroll are the exception. 

 

I don't think I said it wasn't... Did I?

[PlayAction]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

If you don't have a structure that supports the guy that you hire and put into place, it doesn't matter who is coaching the team.

Your organizational structure matters. Individual positions within that structure don't matter. It's the sum of the parts, not the single cog.

 

Kyle Shanahan is a perfect example.  Fans didn't like him here.  He didn't have success in Cleveland but he created a prolific offense in Atlanta and is having success in SFO.  No coach can succeed with a bad organizational structure (Belichek was fired from Cleveland).       

[Riggo-toni]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think I said it wasn't... Did I?

No...sorry, things in writing can be read as contentious even though that was not my intention. I merely meant to re-emphasize my previous point. Snyder keeps flipping between hiring an inexperienced coach then undermining him with a bad roster, and hiring a big name coach and giving him full roster control. If we had hired someone like Dorsey as GM and then hired Kyle as coach we might have had success.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

19 hours ago, Tsailand said:

As we once again spend December watching our team play out the string of meaningless games, I hope the mods are OK with me digging up this ridiculous LaCanfora hit piece from exactly six years ago.  It sure aged well!

 

 

Kyle already showing some of the traits that would make him a successful NFL head coach. He should have been promoted instead of fired. 

 

It gets better:

 

 

 

* Bobby Slowik (the son) is an offensive assistant for the 49ers now.

* Raheem Morris is the DBs coach for the Falcons, has been coaching in the NFL at some level for the past 17 years.

* Matt LaFleur is 10-3 in his first season as head coach of the Packers.

* Mike McDaniel is the run game coordinator for the 49ers.
* Sean McVay (the article implied he was only qualified to be a tight ends coach) was promoted to Redskins OC a month later, and became the Rams head coach three years after that.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyle-shanahan-staff-inexperience-at-core-of-redskins-dysfunction/

 

That quote has got to be from Bruce Allen...it sounds like a grumpy "Get Off My Lawn" statement from an older person who is very stuck in their ways and refuses to look for new solutions to problems. Or it could be an older coach on the team who was grumpy about being passed over for promotion in favor of one of the younger whippersnappers.

 

Then again, maybe it wasn't Bruce because they said McVay knew what he was doing...if that was true, why'd they let him leave?

[Riggo-toni]

I don't know why people are putting Raheem Morris in this list. He was awful here, and the Falcons defense still sucks.

[Tsailand]

7 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

Snyder keeps flipping between hiring an inexperienced coach then undermining him with a bad roster, and hiring a big name coach and giving him full roster control

 

Except he doesn't actually give the big name coach full control.

 

7 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

they said McVay knew what he was doing...if that was true, why'd they let him leave?

 

Because he was leaving to become a head coach.  You can't block that, not even by firing Jay.

 

3 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

I don't know why people are putting Raheem Morris in this list. He was awful here, and the Falcons defense still sucks.

 

Eh, he was in the article as supposedly a Kyle guy.  He isn't with Kyle any more.

 

Even Kyle doesn't bat 1.000.

[Warhead36]

8 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

Kyle Shanahan is a perfect example.  Fans didn't like him here.  He didn't have success in Cleveland but he created a prolific offense in Atlanta and is having success in SFO.  No coach can succeed with a bad organizational structure (Belichek was fired from Cleveland).       

Speak for yourself. I liked him, always have always will.

 

We had three top 10 coaches in our program and let em go. This organization is just rotten to all hell.

[kingdaddy]

Joe Gibbs is on record as saying he had no issue working under Dan Snyder and was given everything he asked for. For me, Dan hasn't had the right guys in place since Gibbs left. This offseason he HAS to nail the GM and head coach and he has to let them run the football operations, totally and completely. I believe he is capable of stepping back and letting this happen but I'm not convinced he's capable of hiring the right people. If Dan were smart, he would hire a reputable football head hunter...Tony Dungy? Ron Wolf? Or someone along those lines to determine who is the best person to be the next GM of the Redskins. Then, allow that person to get a coach. In essence, he would be hiring a head hunter to find his next GM/President of football operations. 

Would someone like a Tony Dungy take this short term job on? Why not???? Hell, it could even be someone like a Peyton Manning or how bout Ozzie Newsome? 

As for this thread, I'm not sure any of the coaches mentioned that got away would've had success in DC given the current structure.