The { Possibly } Sweetest Game Of The Year

[bakedtater1]

1 hour ago, Mr. S said:

 what is the point?  

 

We have to stop being short sighted.  

Tell that to those players in the locker room..

 

 

Serious as ****...

 

This is a question to all YOU fans out there that have this mindset...

 

You get a chance to be in the locker room or on the field with every redskin player that's on the team..are you gonna tell them just give up..your ****ing up future draft picks your enabling snyder to keep bruce around..those players will give you the finger and would put you in your place...WHATS THE POINT OF A WIN!?!?!!...WHATS THE POINT?!?!...ya..go ask those players you claim to be a fan of that question. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I reread the topic post, my bad as for mentioning the GB game.  Same idea applies, I want a loss for Bruce to go and a higher draft pick.  I don't want to trade up to #2 though so I got some mixed feelings based on that aspect of it. 

 

I went to Dallas at the end of the 2015 season to watch the Redskins beat Dallas.  It was fun.  I recall talking to a Dallas Cowboy fan, who is a colleague in my business, and I gloated a little bit to him afterwards  He chuckled that he was worried that Dallas would win, he wanted the high draft pick, he went congrats but he was rooting as hard for the Redskins as i likely was.  The dude Dallas got that year was E. Ellliot. And Dallas has been a better team than us ever since.

 

This team for years has teased with some streaks here and there.  And its been the mantra of why Bruce didn't obviously feel its comical to say "we are close".  I want that vicious style to stop.  For me I am not taken by streaks anymore.  Been there done that.  I want a sustainable winner.  And IMO that's not happening with Bruce.

 

And yeah I do agree that the players just want to win and don't care about the other stuff.  But their perspective should be different than ours.  They aren't Redskins fans.  They are doing this professionally.   These games are their resumes.    The people who are above them and or what the Redskins looks like 3 years from now I'd bet they don't care a rats behind about considering they might not even be here, then.  And as a player I wouldn't be rooting for high draft picks to get players who might take my job.  So I don't really care about the players perspective or even the coach at the time because for them now is everything not the future. 

 

But the owner and GM should have a forward-future oriented perspective.  This team lacks that IMO.  So for me heck yeah I'd rather have for example Chase Young and Kyle Smith here next season in key spots versus Bruce Allen and someone like Isaiah Simmons.  Yeah a top 5 pick isn't a guarantee.  Nothing is a guarantee.  But you play the odds.  That's all you can do.  The odds that the next 10 years of Bruce Allen beats the previous 10 is low IMO.  Statistically speaking you have a higher chance to find a star with a higher pick then a lower pick in the first round -- especially when you compare top 5 to lower than that and there are stats that show it.  

 

But I got no problem with anyone who disagrees.  I disagree with the point that there is only one way to look at it.  It's whatever floats your boat.  😀  And context matters at least it does to me.  If the Redskins steamroll their way through the last 4 games and dominate.  I might change my mind.  

[bakedtater1]

Dont worry sip the cowpukes will steam roll the skins in Dallas..while everyone's found a way to beat them the skins wont..unfortunately. 

Bruce is gone after this year folks..regardless of what happens the rest of the year.

 

 

Thank you Trent Williams!!

[Redd]

We're not beating the Packers so the division is going to the cowboys or eagles. 

 

It would be nice though to play the cowboys in week 17 and beat them so they don't make the playoffs.  Eagles take division and are bounced out at home.

 

At least that's realistic.

[bakedtater1]

2 minutes ago, Redd said:

We're not beating the Packers so the division is going to the cowboys or eagles. 

 

It would be nice though to play the cowboys in week 17 and beat them so they don't make the playoffs.  Eagles take division and are bounced out at home.

 

At least that's realistic.

This is what will happen...good call man...I'm not being sarcastic either.

 

Every..or damn near every packers game I've seen this year there defense played amazing!!....I see there ends just stifling our qb..

 

Do the packers have any flaws to there defense?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

 

 

 

 

 

3

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I reread the topic post, my bad as for mentioning the GB game.  Same idea applies, I want a loss for Bruce to go and a higher draft pick.  I don't want to trade up to #2 though so I got some mixed feelings based on that aspect of it. 

 

I went to Dallas at the end of the 2015 season to watch the Redskins beat Dallas.  It was fun.  I recall talking to a Dallas Cowboy fan, who is a colleague in my business, and I gloated a little bit to him afterwards  He chuckled that he was worried that Dallas would win, he wanted the high draft pick, he went congrats but he was rooting as hard for the Redskins as i likely was.  The dude Dallas got that year was E. Ellliot. And Dallas has been a better team than us ever since. .....

 

And how's that working out for him with a stacked roster and no glimmer of the Lombardi?

 

Hell, they've not been to the NFC Championship game since they last won the SB in 1995. 

 

Hail. 

[Skinsinparadise]

@Gibbs Hog Heaven

 

It's worked better than its worked here.   Since then three winning seasons in a row.  Including 2 out of three years winning the division and a 13-3 season -- feats that Dan hasn't touched in 20 years let alone the last three. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@Gibbs Hog Heaven

 

It's worked better than its worked here.   Since then three winning seasons in a row.  Including 2 out of three years winning the division and a 13-3 season -- feats that Dan hasn't touched in 20 years let alone the last three. 

 

And they're still no nearer a Championship. Which if the ultimate goal is to bag a Lombardi, it leaves them no nearer than what the Redskins are in reality. 

 

The point being, a top 5 draft pick doesn't guarantee anything and, IMHO, it's folly to not play the season in front of you in the 'hope' that losing it will make a difference with whomever you take. 

 

Hail. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

And they're still no nearer a Championship. Which if the ultimate goal is to bag a Lombardi, it leaves them no nearer than what the Redskins are in reality. 

 

The point being, a top 5 draft pick doesn't guarantee anything and, IHO, it's folly to not play the season in front of you in the 'hope' that losing it will make a difference with whomever you take. 

 

Hail. 

 

 

 

OK this forces me to delve into Bruce because to me it's not just about the draft pick.

 

I know you aren't a Bruce Allen guy.  But you seem like you'd accept him back reluctantly if Callahan is part of the package?  Correct me if I am wrong.  And if I am wrong, sorry for misinterpreting your comments. 

 

I am bringing this up because for me its not ONLY about the draft pick.   Bruce to me has to go, its not a sidebar point, or hey I could tolerate it if I must category for me.

 

And yeah I'd take a 13-3, 10-6 run, with a playoff win like Dallas had of late versus a 7-9 team any day of the week. 

 

Going back to Bruce, Albret Breer just talked about the subject on 106.7.  He goes:

 

Redskins have put out feelers for coaches.  They are getting serious push back on Bruce and the FO structure.  Dan is  starting to realize that the feeling about anyone coming here is effected by the Bruce tenure, what's happened the last 10 years, and some candidates don't want to be part of something like that.

 

Breer said it should be interesting to see how far is Dan willing to go to keep Bruce Allen.  Because whomever they poked around with -- Breer said some of whom likely will have multiple possibilities, Bruce looks like a deal breaker. 

 

Back on point for me, yeah Bruce isn't some sidebar conversation topic, minor in the soup, for me he's major in the soup.  Heck even if I felt the way you did about Callahan, there is no way I'd want him back if that means Bruce is part of it.  Heck I'd gladly pick 20th in the draft over #2 if it meant Bruce is out the door.  He IMO has helped make this organization unlikable and a laughingstock.  I'd have never envisioned that he'd be worse than Vinny when he was hired but here we are.   

 

The cycle has to stop.  There is no way in my mind I can rationalize a reason for why I'd want the Bruce tenure to continue regardless if there was something else I liked that was part of the package.    Bruce to my liking is a package deal with nobody.   Pick my favorite potential coach in the mix and the answer would still be a fat No. 

[El Mexican]

12 hours ago, skins island connection said:

The question is, with the heat that the Cowboys HC is feeling, which scenario would you prefer, and I do have to ask why.

So here it is.

 

Beat Dallas, always.

 

I does not matter if we lose every other game left this season, beating Dallas is always tops.

 

In the 90s we had some really lackluster teams, but somehow they managed to beat Dallas.

Same in the mid 2000s. Can't forget that last second win on MNF were 'Tana Moss scored on two Brunnell bombs?

My memory is kinda fuzzy.

 

At least we have something to look for on the very last week of the season!

[Thinking Skins]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Back on point for me, yeah Bruce isn't some sidebar conversation topic, minor in the soup, for me he's major in the soup.  Heck even if I felt the way you did about Callahan, there is no way I'd want him back if that means Bruce is part of it.  Heck I'd gladly pick 20th in the draft over #2 if it meant Bruce is out the door.  He IMO has helped make this organization unlikable and a laughingstock.  I'd have never envisioned that he'd be worse than Vinny when he was hired but here we are.   

 

This is where I am too. I just wish I knew what it took to get rid of Bruce. if it was a 1-15 season, or embarrassments from our franchise player, or getting laughed at on ESPN and national tv, or ads in papers or planes flying over stadiums or all of the above, I'd be down with that. But we don't know. And that's what frustrates me the most. Its like he has a impenetrable suit of protection and hes just wreaking havoc on Redskins Nation. 

 

But I'm also a Callihan guy and I hate when I hear that he's tied to Bruce. I know that's what all the beat guys say, but I'd like to think he can be measured on his own merit. Like, if he finishes with a 7-4 or 6-5 record that should be impressive enough for him to merit consideration form any GM. And his resume is nice alone, the fact that he went to a SB, and has been a part of some good teams in Oakland, NYJ, and Dallas, shouldn't be a stain on his resume.

 

Add to that the fact that keeping him and KOC would be the simplest path toward an easy development for Haskins and our young players. What we know is that any new coach is going to bring in a new system and want new players for that system. So that means that all this development we're seeing could really be for naught. I don't want to make this run more important than it really is, but the thing that has excited me and the fan base is that KOC and Bruce have been developing and teaching your young guys and it gives me hope for the future. It doesn't make sense to develop these guys only for us to bring in a new guy and have him give up on them. 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is where I am too. I just wish I knew what it took to get rid of Bruce. if it was a 1-15 season, or embarrassments from our franchise player, or getting laughed at on ESPN and national tv, or ads in papers or planes flying over stadiums or all of the above, I'd be down with that. But we don't know. And that's what frustrates me the most. Its like he has a impenetrable suit of protection and hes just wreaking havoc on Redskins Nation. 

 

 

I've complemented you from time to time to the FO homers in the throes of a heated debate about your style of debating.  And I know once in awhile we had a semi heated debate here and there but not too often.  But like I told the others, you were/are respectful about how you debate and you got some give and flexibility where you aren't just stuck on an opinion.

 

I've changed my positions on some coaches among other things.  I try not to be stuck in the mud.  So a nod here to you for being open to changing your mind over time as things evolve which you've done as to Bruce.

 

21 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

But I'm also a Callihan guy and I hate when I hear that he's tied to Bruce. I know that's what all the beat guys say, but I'd like to think he can be measured on his own merit. Like, if he finishes with a 7-4 or 6-5 record that should be impressive enough for him to merit consideration form any GM. And his resume is nice alone, the fact that he went to a SB, and has been a part of some good teams in Oakland, NYJ, and Dallas, shouldn't be a stain on his resume.

 

I am not a Callahan guy personally.  I am not anti-Callahan either.   There are other coaches who intrigue me more.  But there isn't a coach I want in a package deal with Bruce.  Zero.

 

And yeah I do buy the narrative that they are a package deal it makes total sense.

 

A.  Bruce and Callahan are supposedly close.  That's been said even before Callahan was giving the reigns

B.  It's been said Dan is leaning towards finally ridding of himself of Bruce but Bruce is riding on a last gasp effort of he built a good team, Jay blew it.  In order to back that narrative, you got to close the season strong.

C.  Per Adam Caplan, Albert Breer -- Bruce makes this an unattractive destination for prospective coaches.

 

All of this adds up. The only fluky way I see Callahan back without Bruce is if Bruce genuinely wants to retire as opposed to it being a forced retirement.

 

21 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Add to that the fact that keeping him and KOC would be the simplest path toward an easy development for Haskins and our young players. What we know is that any new coach is going to bring in a new system and want new players for that system. So that means that all this development we're seeing could really be for naught. I don't want to make this run more important than it really is, but the thing that has excited me and the fan base is that KOC and Bruce have been developing and teaching your young guys and it gives me hope for the future. It doesn't make sense to develop these guys only for us to bring in a new guy and have him give up on them. 

 

I get the logic and agree to a point.  However, according to some of the beat guys, they might be attracted to hiring a defensive minded coach where they'd keep KOC.

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I get the logic and agree to a point.  However, according to some of the beat guys, they might be attracted to hiring a defensive minded coach where they'd keep KOC.

 

Yeah I posted about this in the Kyle Smith thread. I just hope that he's not forced upon a head coach. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Yeah I posted about this in the Kyle Smith thread. I just hope that he's not forced upon a head coach. 

 

I agree with that, too.  I like the idea of Dwayne continuing with KOC.  But I don't want a repeat of what happened when Jay inherited coaches when he came here.  That's how the Jets anded up with Gase over Matt Rhule because they wanted him to take their assistant coach hires.  Gase was cool with it, Rhule wasn't,

 

I want them to do it the right way.  I'd love for the GM to hire the coach period and let that coach hire whomever they want.  

[megared]

2 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

And how's that working out for him with a stacked roster and no glimmer of the Lombardi?

 

Hell, they've not been to the NFC Championship game since they last won the SB in 1995. 

 

Hail. 

 

They've been competitive with good teams at times.  I think the vast majority of people would like to see competitive football first.  A hope, glimmer that Sundays can have positive outcomes consistently.  

 

We've been 4-19 versus eventual playoff teams, since 2015.  The only reasons we won the division in '15, was because the NFC East was terrible, and we had a super favorable schedule.  

 

2019:  Undetermined

2018:  1-6 vs playoff teams (W:  Dallas;  L:  Indy, NO, Houston, Dallas, Philly x2)

2017:  1-5 vs playoff teams (W:  LA Rams; L:  Philly x2, KC, Minn, NO) 

2016:  2-5 vs playoff teams (W:  NYG, GB;  L:   Pit, Dallas x2, Det, NYG)

2015:  0-3 vs playoff teams (L:  NE, Carolina, GB)  

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

They've been competitive with good teams at times.  I think the vast majority of people would like to see competitive football first.  A hope, glimmer that Sundays can have positive outcomes consistently.  .....

 

Right. So in the OP's hypothetical, we win out and make the playoffs. Even a 1 and done. All a VAST improvement from the 0-5 start. The young guys have a successful first/ second year as pros developing together. Taking that momentum into next season and wanting more success after they've had their first taste of it. 

 

How is that not a 'hope, glimmer that Sundays can have positive outcomes consistently' going forward?

 

Hail. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, El Mexican said:

Beat Dallas, always.

 

I does not matter if we lose every other game left this season, beating Dallas is always tops.

Sadly, they don't feel the same way about us.  Let that marinate...

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sadly, they don't feel the same way about us.  Let that marinate...

 

 

Knowing quite a few Texans this is sadly true, 

 

The rivalry is totally one-sided these days. But then when one team is SO bad and consistently loses to the other, it's hard to really class it as a rivalry in those periods so it's little wonder Dallas fans look at the bigger fish out there right now to overcome. 

 

Hail. 

[megared]

5 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Right. So in the OP's hypothetical, we win out and make the playoffs. Even a 1 and done. All a VAST improvement from the 0-5 start. The young guys have a successful first/ second year as pros developing together. Taking that momentum into next season and wanting more success after they've had their first taste of it. 

 

How is that not a 'hope, glimmer that Sundays can have positive outcomes consistently' going forward?

 

Hail. 

 

Let's pump the brakes on that.  We've beaten two 3-win teams, and a team that promptly fired their coach for losing to us. 

 

Every team that has been a playoff contender this season, we've pretty much been outclassed by (Dal, Chi, NE, San Fran, Minn, Buff). 

 

We already know the story...they play better when the expectations of a competitive season have evaporated.  But put them on Monday night, national TV and they'll fold.  

 

This defense has proven time and time again that they can't stop good teams.  They were able to contain, Jeff Driskel, Kyle Allen, and Josh Rosen.  Is that really something to hang your hat on?  

 

Sorry, but the upside of an impact player like Chase Young outweighs any sentimental feelings that'll only last for as long as they don't play a good team.   

 

[skins island connection]

10 hours ago, London Kev said:

 

I understand your point of view, but disagree with it.

 

For me, the draft is something that happens next season and I will enjoy it then, whatever position we end up. Right now, we are still playing football and have a chance to win the division, albeit a very small chance. The whole point of playing competitive games is to win and I could never root for a loss, especially against the cowboys.

 

Also, calling a possible win 'meaningless' is a strange choice of words to me. It would be a big positive for the players, coaches and a lot of fans (myself included). So a win would have meaning. Even in regards to draft position, a win would still have meaning, although in a negative sense.

 

 This is what I was so conflicted with.

 On one hand, knocking Dallas out and winning the division, even if getting bounced in the 1st round, would still be sweet, just to know that the Redskins were the final straw to fire Garrett. It would create a little more animosity thus fueling the rivalry a little, and to rub it in their noses is always a plus.

The downside to that { not mentioned in the thread } is it would surely give Bruce Allen confidence in Snyder's eyes, and that's just not something I could live with.

 

But, losing, and getting that draft slot and the player they want being there does have upside. The past history of the Redskins making some bad choices or choices that were fails does have weight, but getting that 'all-but-certain' player and building around that player the right way is very tempting.  Naturally a coach or assistant would need to be here to further teach and coach, and finding these coaches, in recent memory, has not panned out too well. The ones we had went on to other teams, and the FO's track record of waiting until the good coaches are signed by other teams then getting the 'scraps' and bragging about it doesn't sit well.

 

So, both are double-edged swords.  I need a drink...

[petey hodge]

Call me old fashioned, but am I the only one on this board who feels a good when the Redskins score a touchdown?

[bakedtater1]

4 hours ago, petey hodge said:

Call me old fashioned, but am I the only one on this board who feels a good when the Redskins score a touchdown?

No your not the only one..the folks and I jump and hug and cheer and clap and have a good time when the skins score..we even high five when they get first downs....no one taking our pride!!

[El Mexican]

On 12/6/2019 at 1:17 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sadly, they don't feel the same way about us.  Let that marinate...

 

 

I'm sure they don't. But that's their problem, not ours.

 

I can remember some other season finales where we beat Dallas, namely RGIII's rookie season.

Now that's a good way to close a depressing year.

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 minute ago, El Mexican said:

 

I'm sure they don't. But that's their problem, not ours.

 

I can remember some other season finales where we beat Dallas, namely RGIII's rookie season.

Now that's a good way to close a depressing year.

 

2012? That season finale didn’t close a depressing year....it secured us the division title and home game against the Seahawks, when we felt good about our chances to make a run....

 

2015 season finale in Dallas was also a great way to end the regular season

[El Mexican]

On 12/8/2019 at 8:24 PM, Cooleyfan1993 said:

2012? That season finale didn’t close a depressing year....it secured us the division title and home game against the Seahawks, when we felt good about our chances to make a run....

 

2015 season finale in Dallas was also a great way to end the regular season

 

Yep, I was referring to this season, hehe. We beat them twice in 2012.

 

Anyone here remember that '95 season when we won both games? Terrible season. Finished 6-10. Gus at QB, Terry Allen, Norv as HC.

But hey, somehow we beat a star studded Cowboys team in the height of their SB years.