RandyHolt Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 42 minutes ago, Tarpon75 said: I don’t know, I don’t think you would find many teams signing a 33-year-old that has been out of the game for two years to a huge contract. Two years out of the game and he could be pretty much done, that’s a long layoff for a player at that age. Fair points that I cannot dispute. But him limping into camp with the same medical staff he likely doesn't trust, probably doesn't bode very well for a bright long term future, as well. Call me a quack but I think the power of positive thinking, especially related to healing, is a thing. I agree it would need to be a perfect storm of sorts for him to recoup lost monies, but there is a price folks are willing to pay, for peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Throw medical staff concerns into the wind for a minute... The way I'm reading Trent's contract is that while yes - he's under a contract for 2 more seasons, the 2020 season has virtually no guarantees. Meaning if he was to get injured this season or whatever else, the Skins could walk away from his deal and cut him loose in 2020. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that, but it appears the guarantees get paid out for the 2019 season, leaving none or very little left for 2020. Basically, without a new contract, he's playing a lame duck season at left tackle, for a team he was drafted by and played nice with, through many more downs than ups. Why again are folks here surprised by the fact that he wants a new deal? I gather most of the folks vehement about the contract being in black and white, and him being an a-hole, merely cannot separate pro football from their everyday joe jobs and how its entirely apples to oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 You also have to take the Alex Smith situation into consideration with regards to trent. If we hadn't signed Smith we could afford to gamble and give a guy with a history of ailments a contract with significant guarantees, but since we already have so much dead money on Alex Smith how devastating would it be to have 40 or 50 million wrapped up in a tackle that cant play either. If trent were to suffer a career ending injury we'd truly be screwed beyond repair and would almost be forced into a total rebuild which could very well waste the prime and cheap years of our young and talented defensive core. This situation totally sucks but any of the historically smart teams in our situation would stick to their guns and force him to play out his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, MartinC said: Kirk and his agent played the situation perfectly. But I guarantee that the Vikings GM would like a re do on that deal! Agreed. When Randy broke out the Kirk and top tier player in the same sentence he lost all credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, redskinss said: You also have to take the Alex Smith situation into consideration with regards to trent. If we hadn't signed Smith we could afford to gamble and give a guy with a history of ailments a contract with significant guarantees, but since we already have so much dead money on Alex Smith how devastating would it be to have 40 or 50 million wrapped up in a tackle that cant play either. If trent were to suffer a career ending injury we'd truly be screwed beyond repair and would almost be forced into a total rebuild which could very well waste the prime and cheap years of our young and talented defensive core. This situation totally sucks but any of the historically smart teams in our situation would stick to their guns and force him to play out his contract. Not sure how the Alex Smith scenario has any relevance to this situation, as it's the same for everyone else. Every player runs the risk of getting injured - short term, season-ending, & career ending. The same risk is there for everyone involved. Sure it would suck worse for us because we already have the issue w/ Smith's contract, but no player really gives a crap about anyone else's deals but their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 18 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: The way I'm reading Trent's contract is that while yes - he's under a contract for 2 more seasons, the 2020 season has virtually no guarantees. Meaning if he was to get injured this season or whatever else, the Skins could walk away from his deal and cut him loose in 2020. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that, but it appears the guarantees get paid out for the 2019 season, leaving none or very little left for 2020. Basically, without a new contract, he's playing a lame duck season at left tackle, for a team he was drafted by and played nice with, through many more downs than ups. Why again are folks here surprised by the fact that he wants a new deal? I gather most of the folks vehement about the contract being in black and white, and him being an a-hole, merely cannot separate pro football from their everyday joe jobs and how its entirely apples to oranges. So every player in the 2nd to last year of their contract is basically a lame duck? If this is about the money he should have waited until next year, I don't think anyone would have an issue with Trent wanting security before he starts playing in the final year of his deal and its most likely an uncapped year anyway. Also, most if not all the A Smith money will be off the books so the team is in a better situation to give him what he wants. If every player started leveraging their team in June because they only had 2 years left on their deal don't you think that would cause an issue? When did players become entitled to guaranteed money throughout their entire contract, if you want that then you should negotiate it before you sign, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Not sure how the Alex Smith scenario has any relevance to this situation, as it's the same for everyone else. Every player runs the risk of getting injured - short term, season-ending, & career ending. The same risk is there for everyone involved. Sure it would suck worse for us because we already have the issue w/ Smith's contract, but no player really gives a crap about anyone else's deals but their own. I think his point is that guaranteed money is a good thing for players in case they get hurt. As in Alex's case. If Trent had blown out his knee in year one or two of his contract he would have made out well with the guarantees. Now that he has already been paid all of that guaranteed money he wants to ignore the contract HE SIGNED and renegotiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Trent wants some guaranteed money and greater security as he heads into the twilight of his career...and who could blame him? Who knows better than him that he’s winding down rapidly? Whether he deserves or gets that, here or elsewhere, is obviously quite murky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 @JSSkinz For whatever reason, it won't let me quote your post. Every player can't leverage their team in June, because they aren't of Trent Williams caliber. Not all deals play out in a way that the last year of the deal comes with no guarantees. In this situation, it makes complete sense for Trent that he'd want to discuss extension immediately after the 2018 season concluded. He has 2 years left and only 1 year of guaranteed money. Meaning if he doesn't negotiate a new deal and suffers catastrophic injury in 2019 - that could be the last big paycheck he ever receives. He just watched Alex Smith have botched surgeries at the hands of the team doctors that has all but confirmed he'll never play again. You think he wants to run the risk of having the same type of thing happen to him, only have no guarantees behind it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Sure it would suck worse for us because we already have the issue w/ Smith's contract, but no player really gives a crap about anyone else's deals but their own. The first part of your statement is what I'm referring to, the fact that because we already have one huge contract weighing us down we can't take a risk on another. Now if it was a player who was 25 with no history of injuries like say Landon Collins then maybe you gamble, all teams have to do that, yes I agree, but with Williams already peaked and heading towards the pasture it's a much larger risk. As to the second part of your statement I have no idea where that came from because I certainly didn't mean to suggest Trent would care about Smith's contract because he wouldn't and shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangman- C_Hanburger Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 54 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Throw medical staff concerns into the wind for a minute... But you can't. I think EVERYONE would agree..lets do *something* extra for Trent regarding money. *I* think had he approached it that way...nobody would be complaining. Also, IF there is Medical Staff incompetency, then name names and situations involved and again people can assess the validity. BUT it APPEARS the two have been convoluted with NO RESOLUTION unless Trent gets a release from his contract for the next 2 years and that is an unplanned critical shortage for the Skins. THAT is not fair to the Skins who have compensated Trent VERY HIGH during his tenure. So unless Trent gives specifics..I am siding with the Skins as being the aggrieved party here. We all have seen accusations that have been a fabrication. Why do *some* people reflexively blame Bruce. HE is NOT the Doctor and HE has to assess the impact to the team before granting ANY contract relief. It's frigging June guys..there is all kinds of time to resolve this. Bruce has kept his conversations with Trent Confidential...Trent has NOT I just don't like the lopsidedness of this whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: @JSSkinz For whatever reason, it won't let me quote your post. Every player can't leverage their team in June, because they aren't of Trent Williams caliber. Not all deals play out in a way that the last year of the deal comes with no guarantees. In this situation, it makes complete sense for Trent that he'd want to discuss extension immediately after the 2018 season concluded. He has 2 years left and only 1 year of guaranteed money. Meaning if he doesn't negotiate a new deal and suffers catastrophic injury in 2019 - that could be the last big paycheck he ever receives. He just watched Alex Smith have botched surgeries at the hands of the team doctors that has all but confirmed he'll never play again. You think he wants to run the risk of having the same type of thing happen to him, only have no guarantees behind it? I've been trying to edit that post for 5 minutes to remove the huge blank area but it wont let me. Anyway, I get it, we all want security but it also has to make sense unless you're talking about a loyalty contract which we used to see teams do back in the day but with the cap and skyrocketing salaries you rarely see those "thank you" deals being extended at the end of players careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: @JSSkinz For whatever reason, it won't let me quote your post. Every player can't leverage their team in June, because they aren't of Trent Williams caliber. Not all deals play out in a way that the last year of the deal comes with no guarantees. In this situation, it makes complete sense for Trent that he'd want to discuss extension immediately after the 2018 season concluded. He has 2 years left and only 1 year of guaranteed money. Meaning if he doesn't negotiate a new deal and suffers catastrophic injury in 2019 - that could be the last big paycheck he ever receives. He just watched Alex Smith have botched surgeries at the hands of the team doctors that has all but confirmed he'll never play again. You think he wants to run the risk of having the same type of thing happen to him, only have no guarantees behind it? Trent Williams caliber.....? Is that old, hurt and at the end of his prime? Did he not get paid all his guaranteed money UP FRONT? Did't Kiem not to long ago clear up team DR's botching AS surgery? Just saying...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said: So unless Trent gives specifics Trent hasn't and isn't going to give specifics, neither is the team. For numerous reasons - primarily, that it's a very slippery slope legally. So at this point, it's all based on what is primarily speculation. And what appears to be another guy the Skins drafted that fans turn on at the drop of a dime because of what they perceive a situation to be vs. what it really is. 4 minutes ago, hailmary said: Trent Williams caliber.....? Is that old, hurt and at the end of his prime? Perhaps. But given his resume, he's the caliber of player who would distinctly not want to risk playing without guarantees if he doesn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Perhaps. But given his resume, he's the caliber of player who would distinctly not want to risk playing without guarantees if he doesn't have to. He should have thought about that when he agreed to the deal, and to holdout 2 years early and possibly put blame on medical team is hypocritical..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, hailmary said: He should have thought about that when he agreed to the deal, and to holdout 2 years early and possibly put blame on medical team is hypocritical..... I’m sure he did think about that, and assumed like most players, that they would negotiate an extension down the road. Here we are, down the road. Again, Trent hasn’t said anything. It appears you just like to get worked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I’m sure he did think about that, and assumed like most players, that they would negotiate an extension down the road. Here we are, down the road. Again, Trent hasn’t said anything. It appears you just like to get worked up. Trent said enough to me by NOT showing up to MANDATORY MINI CAMP! As far as not thinking about the contract he signed, doesn't fault the organization in any way. NOT worked up at all, I said last year we needed to find his replacement sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, hailmary said: Trent said enough to me by NOT showing up to MANDATORY MINI CAMP! As far as not thinking about the contract he signed, doesn't fault the organization in any way. NOT worked up at all, I said last year we needed to find his replacement sooner than later. Could have fooled me. Because you sure seem worked up in the vein that this is all Trent being an a-hole. Do you realize that Trent wouldn’t be able to practice in this mandatory minicamp you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, hailmary said: Trent said enough to me by NOT showing up to MANDATORY MINI CAMP! As far as not thinking about the contract he signed, doesn't fault the organization in any way. NOT worked up at all, I said last year we needed to find his replacement sooner than later. Well, he came out and said based on the handling of his offseason surgery he's done with the team. The team probably was wondering if he's bluffing and would show up. Turns out he's not bluffing, so time to move onto the next steps and trade/release him. If a player wants to force his way off a roster it's within his right. Sure these athletes are getting paid quite a lot, but you can't force someone to do something against their will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Again, Trent hasn’t said anything. 6 minutes ago, Unbias said: Well, he came out and said based on the handling of his offseason surgery he's done with the team. Good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Unbias said: Well, he came out and said based on the handling of his offseason surgery he's done with the team. The team probably was wondering if he's bluffing and would show up. Turns out he's not bluffing, so time to move onto the next steps and trade/release him. If a player wants to force his way off a roster it's within his right. Sure these athletes are getting paid quite a lot, but you can't force someone to do something against their will. That is rumor. No one has confirmed that. The only public statements made are: Jay - talked about he knows there is some problem with the medical staff and the FO is working with Trent to get things resolved. But that he would not have been able to practice anyway. Bruce - I talked to Trent and know the truth. I will leave that conversation between him and I. Adrian Peterson - When asked about Trent's supposed ultimatum, he said "That's funny. Trent and i talk almost every day and he has never said anything like that to me. Everything is rumors. Literally everything else. Is there some truth in the rumors? Most likely But until we know what they are it's all conjecture. But again, you cannot say at this point that Trent has said anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Could have fooled me. Because you sure seem worked up in the vein that this is all Trent being an a-hole. Do you realize that Trent wouldn’t be able to practice in this mandatory minicamp you speak of? No I simply said over & over Trent is being HYPOCRITICAL of either situation. Whether its medical and or contract $$$$. YOU & goskins10 assumes me thinking Trent is being an "a-hole" Why would Trent NOT be able to participate, this as of now is RUMOR nothing more nothing less ? & BEING THERE VS PARTICIPATE IS ANOTHER STORY Jays comment about practicing is irrelevant at this time you still show up ALEX SMITH IS THERE!! Didn't the team give permission for Reed to stay in Florida & work with his own DR'S & trainers?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, hailmary said: No I simply said over & over Trent is being HYPOCRITICAL of either situation. Whether its medical and or contract $$$$. YOU & goskins10 assumes me thinking Trent is being an "a-hole" Why would Trent NOT be able to participate? & BEING THERE VS PARTICIPATE IS ANOTHER STORY My deepest apologies... He’s a hypocrite, not an a-hole, and here I was thinking they were damn near the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 This is what a real team leader does in this type of situation, take note Trent....... Statement from Jaguars’ DE Yannick Ngakoue: “I will not be attending minicamp as my contract has not been resolved. I remain committed to Jacksonville, the fans and my teammates. My hope is to be with Jacksonville for years to come.” per Adam Schefter 17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: My deepest apologies... He’s a hypocrite, not an a-hole, and here I was thinking they were damn near the same thing. HYPOCRITICAL & A-HOLE are NOT synonymous.........BTW while calling Trent hypocritical I gave specific examples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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