BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said: People said the same thing when we had to settle for Jim Zorn. Couldn't attract nobody. Then came Shanny. Step off the ledge people, we are one of 32 franchises. There will always be someone out there with the ego that thinks they can turn the ship around and be a hero for a winning starved franchise and city. Sure, Dan may land a coveted coach again...in a coaching market where there are more coveted candidates than there are openings. Washington will never be a coveted place to be a head coach until the FO is right. In every industry, one of the most important things is who you report to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Sure, Dan may land a coveted coach again...in a coaching market where there are more coveted candidates than there are openings. Washington will never be a coveted place to be a head coach until the FO is right. In every industry, one of the most important things is who you report to. You could have said the same thing in 2009 prior to Zorn and Vinny's firings and it would have just as much relevance. Super Bowl winning coach Shanahan showed up right after. Surely you aren't suggesting we only landed Shanny because the market that year had so many openings. The same year that there were only 3 openings total... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: You could have said the same thing in 2009 prior to Zorn and Vinny's firings and it would have just as much relevance. Super Bowl winning coach Shanahan showed up right after. Surely you aren't suggesting we only landed Shanny because the market that year had so many openings. The same year that there were only 3 openings total... Only it’s now 10 years further into his ownership that have only added more and more reasons to not want to work here, the way things went down with Shanny being part of the soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Only it’s now 10 years further into his ownership that have only added more and more reasons to not want to work here, the way things went down with Shanny being part of the soup. I just think if after this year Snyder cleans house, there will certainly be interest in reviving this franchise. It's a big market, huge visibility, storied history. Those are things that will never go away, regardless of Snyder or how many years have past. I mean look at Cleveland since they moved from Baltimore. They practically make us look like New England. Yet still were able to land a John Dorsey, a very respected personnel guy. And now things seem to be turning around. I just don't buy we can't lure big time names to DC, it's another jab at the franchise out of frustration. Not being able to attract a DC for a regime that may be on its way out is a very different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, HardcoreZorn said: I just think if after this year Snyder cleans house, there will certainly be interest in reviving this franchise. Sure. That’s pretty much the entire argument though, that he will never land a big fish If they have to answer to a guy like Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Sure. That’s pretty much the entire argument though, that he will never land a big fish If they have to answer to a guy like Bruce. That was not the same thread I was reading then but OK. I forgot how everything in your world revolves around hatred and disdain for Bruce, but the premise of this thread was not started on can we attract coaches with Bruce in charge. It was can Washington attract good coaches. At least that's how I interpreted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: That was not the same thread I was reading then but OK. I forgot how everything in your world revolves around hatred and disdain for Bruce, but the premise of this thread was not started on can we attract coaches with Bruce in charge. It was can Washington attract good coaches. At least that's how I interpreted it. If by my world, you mean the real world, sure. There’s also no guarantee that whomever is selected to replace Bruce will be a person that attracts quality head coaching candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: If by my world, you mean the real world, sure. There’s also no guarantee that whomever is selected to replace Bruce will be a person that attracts quality head coaching candidates. Everything in the real world revolves around the hatred for Bruce Allen? Yikes, hope I don't get swallowed up by that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: Everything in the real world revolves around the hatred for Bruce Allen? Yikes, hope I don't get swallowed up by that! No, most everyone in the real world is aware that Bruce is absolutely awful at his job and a hinderance to attracting a good head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 28 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: No, most everyone in the real world is aware that Bruce is absolutely awful at his job and a hinderance to attracting a good head coach. And he's still here despite making the paloffs 2 times in 9 years.....but we're so close..... So close to what? Oh yeah, another 1 and done playoff game on a miraculous year when none of his injury prone guys gets injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squatch66 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said: Everything in the real world revolves around the hatred for Bruce Allen? Yikes, hope I don't get swallowed up by that! Have you seen any recent tweets by the team? Hell, any tweet regarding the Redskins is met with a mob of fire Bruce posts, so yeah right now it does seem like the world revolves around hatred for Bruce. https://mobile.twitter.com/Redskins/status/1086352526654562305 This one is funny because you have a couple people that try to defend the team but it doesnt go very well: https://mobile.twitter.com/Redskins/status/1086333166657392645 https://mobile.twitter.com/Redskins/status/1086325438438350850 On 1/15/2019 at 3:08 PM, Hooper said: 100 percent truth. The Skins are a league-wide joke. Owners make fun of Snyder, the league is concerned about what he has done to what was once a league crown jewel. His destruction is truly staggering at this point. Got a link to any stories about the league being concerned? I'd love it if the league "assigned" Lafemina to come back and set this team straight lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Good coaches will definitely come to the Redskins...prior good coaches have recommended other good coaches to come here, and praised Snyder as an owner in the process. But the key is finding a good, young coach to hire, which I think is outside of Allen and Snyder's wheelhouse. I personally think Gruden is a good coach. I don't think he's being given a coaching situation or environment which fosters growth and improvement. And the plethora of injuries these past two seasons hasn't helped him one iota. Think about this: the Cowboys have gone 12-4, 13-3, 9-7 and 10-6 in four of the last 5 seasons. The one season where they had anything close to the injuries the Skins have had for the last 2 years, they went 4-12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 A team like this is an IDEAL situation for a young innovative up and comer to break into the NFL. As I mentioned in the new ST coach thread, I would like to trust Doug Williams HBC connections to find the young innovative guy. There does exist a talent pool that does not come through Tampa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogdirty Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 15 hours ago, Califan007 said: But the key is finding a good, young coach to hire, which I think is outside of Allen and Snyder's wheelhouse. I personally think Gruden is a good coach. I don't think he's being given a coaching situation or environment which fosters growth and improvement. And the plethora of injuries these past two seasons hasn't helped him one iota. Think about this: the Cowboys have gone 12-4, 13-3, 9-7 and 10-6 in four of the last 5 seasons. The one season where they had anything close to the injuries the Skins have had for the last 2 years, they went 4-12. Gruden is a good Arena League coach and there's proof of this. However there is nothing to suggest he is nothing more than mediocre in the NFL. With lack of team preparation ability to adjust I see him as one of the worst coaches going into 2019. In fact we have seen coaches go to teams with the same amount of talent as the Skins with less time and produce better results (Pederson, McVay, Lynn, Naggy, Reich) Mike Vrabel almost had Titans in the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Command The 414 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, hogdirty said: with less time and produce better results (Pederson, McVay, Lynn, Naggy, Reich) Mike Vrabel almost had Titans in the playoffs accept for Vrabel (who's Titans were actually in the playoffs the year before and beat the Chiefs) all those coaches you mentioned had a already proven NFL QB or young QB so imho these comparsions don't even equal up. Sure Luck was coming off a major injury but still better then anything we had here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogdirty Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, ashlynskins said: accept for Vrabel (who's Titans were actually in the playoffs the year before and beat the Chiefs) all those coaches you mentioned had a already proven NFL QB or young QB so imho these comparsions don't even equal up. Sure Luck was coming off a major injury but still better then anything we had here. That's not a bad outcome for a first year coach who's QB missed games and played hurt. I would categorize Alex Smith as already a proven NFL QB and just because a QB is young doesn't mean the have an advantage. I think Rivers and Luck are the only QBs where coaching isn't much of a factor on production. However, if you would give Jay Gruden one of the best QBs and team in the league like the Patriots the team would be totally worse off. That was my point on Gruden being a good coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, hogdirty said: I would categorize Alex Smith as already a proven NFL QB and just because a QB is young doesn't mean the have an advantage. Having a young QB on his rookie deals really helps when it comes to the salary cap situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogdirty Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Wildbunny said: Having a young QB on his rookie deals really helps when it comes to the salary cap situation. You're right, and Skins should have thought about that when transitioning away from Cousins. Now I kind of hope Skins don't draft a QB under Gruden. It will just give them another excuse to keep him longer because they won't make the decision the Browns did with Hue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 56 minutes ago, hogdirty said: Gruden is a good Arena League coach and there's proof of this. However there is nothing to suggest he is nothing more than mediocre in the NFL. With lack of team preparation ability to adjust I see him as one of the worst coaches going into 2019. In fact we have seen coaches go to teams with the same amount of talent as the Skins with less time and produce better results (Pederson, McVay, Lynn, Naggy, Reich) Mike Vrabel almost had Titans in the playoffs I definitely feel different. And imo, none of those coaches you mentioned would have done anything close to as well if they had the same owner, the same GM, the same front office set-up, the same QBs, the same roster and the same amount of injuries as Gruden had over his time with the Skins and especially the last two seasons. I'm not sure how Gruden would have done if put in those other coaches' exact situations. But if Pederson were with the Redskins, no way in hell does he bring the Skins a Super Bowl in his 2nd year simply because he's Pederson. I'm not even convinced McVay would have squeezed out more than 9 wins the last 2 seasons if he were on the Skins in 2017 and 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogdirty Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I definitely feel different. And imo, none of those coaches you mentioned would have done anything close to as well if they had the same owner, the same GM, the same front office set-up, the same QBs, the same roster and the same amount of injuries as Gruden had over his time with the Skins and especially the last two seasons. I'm not sure how Gruden would have done if put in those other coaches' exact situations. But if Pederson were with the Redskins, no way in hell does he bring the Skins a Super Bowl in his 2nd year simply because he's Pederson. I'm not even convinced McVay would have squeezed out more than 9 wins the last 2 seasons if he were on the Skins in 2017 and 2018. I believe nothing makes my point better than the Gruden/Pederson comparison. Look back at the 2017 season opener against Philly. A healthy Skins team was going against a Eagles squad with a 2nd year coach and QB that they swept the year before. Skins looked totally unprepared in that game with muffed punts, missed tackles, blown overages not blocking, etc. This leads back to lack of preparation, game plan, and ability to adjust. The results of the game showed already the difference in the two coaches. I would say you could have seen the same thing in the game against the Colts this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Command The 414 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 18 hours ago, hogdirty said: I believe nothing makes my point better than the Gruden/Pederson comparison. Look back at the 2017 season opener against Philly. A healthy Skins team was going against a Eagles squad with a 2nd year coach and QB that they swept the year before. I also say that this statement here solidifies my point to about all the coaches you mentioned having either a proven or young QB's...Pederson had all off season going into their 2nd season together to have Wentz learn and grow in the offense...the 2nd season for any quality young QB is the season where they seem to take flight...case in point Goff as well with McVay and Mitch T...in Chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 22 hours ago, bowhunter said: A team like this is an IDEAL situation for a young innovative up and comer to break into the NFL. As I mentioned in the new ST coach thread, I would like to trust Doug Williams HBC connections to find the young innovative guy. There does exist a talent pool that does not come through Tampa. You take that back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probos Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 22 hours ago, bowhunter said: A team like this is an IDEAL situation for a young innovative up and comer to break into the NFL. As I mentioned in the new ST coach thread, I would like to trust Doug Williams HBC connections to find the young innovative guy. There does exist a talent pool that does not come through Tampa. "IDEAL situation"? Far, far from it. The FO is broken. They are not capable, in it's current form, to properly evaluate and hire innovative talent. There are countless examples of their ineptitude over the years and it's continued with their failed pursuit of Bowles and Williams for DC while never officially firing Manusky. I will agree they could find a young coach and convince him to come here by offering him a great salary, but that person would be potentially tainting his career due to the current state of this franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 23 hours ago, bowhunter said: A team like this is an IDEAL situation for a young innovative up and comer to break into the NFL. As I mentioned in the new ST coach thread, I would like to trust Doug Williams HBC connections to find the young innovative guy. There does exist a talent pool that does not come through Tampa. A team and FO like this is exactly the kind that sours or destroys young talent form ever being able to accomplish anything on or off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, ntotoro said: A team and FO like this is exactly the kind that sours or destroys young talent form ever being able to accomplish anything on or off the field. My point being that the culture of our FO has been to hire mediocre and "used" coaches who have nothing to lose by coming here. Lateral moves from one bad team to another. A young up and comer is not going to replace a Belichek, but might salivate at the opportunity to become the Redskins new face, leading a poor team into an exciting one. Will Bruce allow for such an opportunity, I doubt it. But if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere (in Sinatara voice lol.) What do we have to lose by trying? The current formula doesn't work, and yes, it is an ideal opportunity for someone given the choice between starting as the 3rd assistant to Mr. Belichek or becoming a Coordinator here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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