Would you support the idea of the team moving on and starting over with an expansion team?

[crabbypatty]

Let me preface this by saying it is just a thought exercise, I know there's no chance in hell of it happening, but I was talking with a friend earlier today and the thought came to me that it wasn't a half bad idea.

 

Let's face facts. Everything about this team is toxic. Literally everything. The owner, front office, players, fans, and media.

Obviously the owner/front office/players get the lion's share of fan wrath, but often overlooked in this toxic mess is the role the fans and especially the media play.

Fan apathy and disenchantment is at the longest and lowest point I ever remember it being in my 37 years of watching this team. There have been plenty of awful seasons in those 37 years, but people still showed up, and still cared.

Even after horribly bad debacles like a 3-0 loss to the jets in 1993 wheels falling off type seasons, the fans were still there, and still cared.

 

These days, fans expect the worst out of every situation, and in most cases the worst case scenario is exactly what happens. Reporters breathlessly waiting to pounce on every piece of "bad" news or just any news they can find and spinning it/attacking it maliciously to fill air time and word counts, along with crap shows like the junkies further help to deepen fan apathy and continually depict things as the "same old redskins." In many cases stupid decisions are made and some things warrant ridicule and indignation. But in this town EVERYTHING is treated like that.

It's a vicious never ending, self-fulfilling cycle and it continually feeds itself, and nothing seems to be able to break out of those bonds.

 

With all that being said, do you think this team leaving (and not to NOVA, another state) taking on a new name and starting over here with a new expansion team be in the best interest of everyone involved?

Or would we treat the new team like the redskins, and pounce and lambast every play and player for every mistake or missed play?

 

Personally I think an incoming team would get the same treatment by 50% of the problem with the current team, the fans and media. The redskins may leave but those people would still be here and I think it would just repeat all over again.

 

Curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are on the matter.

 

*note, this is not a calling out thread, or a "my fandom is bigger than yours" contest, just my own thoughts on a significant yet unacknowledged reason why this team and city are in the funk they're in these past few years especially.

[NickyJ]

There have been 32 teams in the NFL since 2002, which is now 16 years ago. It has a perfect balance of 4 teams per division in every division. I rate it at a 5% chance there will ever be a 33rd team. The golden era of the NFL is over, and aside from the typical London, Mexico, or Canada whispers, there is no interest in creating a new team.

 

That is all to say that if the Redskins move out, we will not see an NFL team in Washington for the next 20 years. Not without another team moving here, and I don't see any teams that actually would want to move. I have more faith in the Redskins winning than I do in another team moving to a dead market that was killed by the Redskins.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

There is nothing in sports that I would want more. 

 

Seriously. My only connection to the team is the location. 

 

I basically dislike everything else except the colors 

And honestly the Skins don’t have to move. They can stay. I just want another local option 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Great thread idea…

 

Not only do I think this would provide a clean slate for the local team, I think it would be a nice break for the fans. Personally, I am to the point after 35 years where I wouldn’t mind 2-3 years off. I can’t actually make myself not care, so if there’s a season I’m going to be invested. But, like Cleveland had between the Browns moving to Baltimore and the expansion Brows spinning up…if I knew there would be a 2-3 year hiatus where I could just enjoy the NFL and then anxiously await a new expansion team, I think I would welcome that!

 

Personally, I’d want the current organization to take up a new name and leave the history behind…I’d want the same situation that the Browns had back in the late-1990s. They just continued the long Browns tradition while the Ravens were the team that started from a blank record book.

 

So, yes…I think a little break, a clean start with a new ownership and front office group, and a new direction would actually work WONDERS for this team and the fans. Short of this happening in the manner you mention, I believe the organization undergoing that type of rebuild is the only way to fix the current situation too…unless of course something completely random and lucky happens (having a miracle Super Bowl run one year, stumbling into a Manning-like franchise QB, etc.).

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Not even slightly would I like it or support it.

 

 

4 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

There is nothing in sports that I would want more. 

 

Seriously. My only connection to the team is the location. 

 

 

 

Wouldn't that be the same with an expansion team?...I mean, why would you support a new expansion team other than it's located where the old team was?

[Csup]

Yes!   Dan Synder represents everything I dislike in a person and I can no longer distinguish between the team and Synder.  For me, this would be the best solution to re-igniting  the passion I once had for the Redskins.

 

 

 

 

[celticsalmon]

Let little big man move this disaster to San Antonio, or Oakland, or Timbuktu.  Snyder's  regular season record  as an owner since 1999 -  138-178-1  and 2 -5 in playoffs is evidence that he will never be a winning NFL owner.

[Forehead]

I mean, with the caveats above that the league is already pretty well set, so we wouldn't get an expansion team, we'd get someone else's team, kind of like when we got the Nats.

 

I'd be all for it.  I detest Daniel Snyder and I don't think there's another owner who could be any worse.  I'm not a Redskins fan in the traditional sense, I'm a Washington D.C. fan, city loyal.  If the city swapped with...I don't know, the Dolphins, and we now had the Washington Dolphins and the Miami Redskins were in Florida, I'd be a Dolphins fan.  The city matters more to me than the name of the team*.

 

*Side note, also why I don't care if they ever decide to change the name to Washington Warriors or whatever else.

 

To me, getting rid of the whole ownership group and welcoming some new blood would be worth it.  I watched the entire Giants game this past weekend and had a sense of apathy at halftime I had never felt before.  This city could use an injection of something new.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

11 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Not even slightly would I like it or support it.

 

 

 

Wouldn't that be the same with an expansion team?...I mean, why would you support a new expansion team other than it's located where the old team was?

There’s a non zero chance that they won’t be an embarrassing, petty, incompetent organization lol 

 

that’s the difference.

 

it would actually be a surprise if sued a fan over something petty. I’m willing to take that risk lol

[JSSkinz]

If someone in the FO would address the fans with the short term and long term goals of this team and it made sense then I think you could blow it up and the fans would stick around and embrace the change.

 

Most people are smart enough to know this team needs retooling, I think the issue is that the FO is in denial and as fans, we have no idea what they are doing and we are scared they will continue to leverage themselves to the hilt with more desperate moves which just sets us back even further.

 

Simple communication would solve 80% of the problem as long as we have a solid plan in place and the structure to execute it.

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just to add to this thought exercise, think of this lol:

 

Snyder moves the team--along with the team name and team colors--to, I dunno...North Dakota. And we get an expansion team a year later.

 

Fast forward three more years...the Washington Regulators have gone 3-13, 6-10 and 5-11 over that timespan. Not unusual for an expansion team, but Its new owner seems (to fans anyway) just as incompetent as Snyder. The excitement of the newly-draftred franchise QB has waned as he starts to look like a Jason Campbell clone. There are threads started asking if anyone hates the new colors or misses the "maroon and yellow" unis.

 

Meanwhile, the North Dakota Redskins are now 10-6 and won the NFC North. The Cowboys have again won the NFC East and you get to hear all sorts of promos about the upcoming divisional playoff game against the Redskins and Cowboys as you sit in your Regulators jersey with the team's mediocre new franchise QB's nameplate on the back.

 

I'm not saying I think that would happen or that there's a high possibility of it happening....I'm not talking about ANY possibilities at all. This thread is a thought exercise. It just seems as if the ONLY thoughts anyone is having is that:

 

- Snyder will be gone

- The new owner will automatically be significantly better

- Positive results will show almost instantly

- It's impossible for a Snyder-owned team to do better than a new DC-based expansion team

- Losing the history that goes along with the franchise, its name, its logo, and it's uniforms will have no effect on any of us

 

The idea seems like a desire for a quick fix, without truly thinking through whether or not anything will be fixed outside of maybe PR for a season or two.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Yeah so you keep talking about on field results and I think that’s the issue the current regime has as well 

 

it’s not just losing. Plenty of teams lose every year. The difference here is the off the field incompetence and undeserved arrogance that the organization has displayed. I am tired of being embarrassed about 85% of the things this team does off the field.

 

it is a statiscal anomaly to be this terrible run for this long. So odds say that the new team PROBABLY won’t be as embarrassing. That’s it. 

 

 

Also, Vegas Golden Knights almost won a Stanley Cup last year as an expansion team lol. So it’s not impossible. 

 

Also, I’m young so my concept of Skins history is very different from yours. Nothing but failure. So i don’t have the memories you do that can get you through the tough times 

 

I just have Swinging Gate and Josh Johnson 

[Wildbunny]

6 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

it’s not just losing. Plenty of teams lose every year. The difference here is the off the field incompetence and undeserved arrogance that the organization has displayed. I am tired of being embarrassed about 85% of the things this team does off the field.

[ExoDus84]

55 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

And honestly the Skins don’t have to move. They can stay. I just want another local option 

 

You could always support the Ravens....

 

...if you're a traitorous son of a ****.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Yeah so you keep talking about on field results and I think that’s the issue the current regime has as well 

 

it’s not just losing. Plenty of teams lose every year. The difference here is the off the field incompetence and undeserved arrogance that the organization has displayed. I am tired of being embarrassed about 85% of the things this team does off the field.

 

it is a statiscal anomaly to be this terrible run for this long. So odds say that the new team PROBABLY won’t be as embarrassing. That’s it. 

 

 

Also, Vegas Golden Knights almost won a Stanley Cup last year as an expansion team lol. So it’s not impossible. 

 

Also, I’m young so my concept of Skins history is very different from yours. Nothing but failure. So i don’t have the memories you do that can get you through the tough times 

 

I just have Swinging Gate and Josh Johnson 

4

 

I keep talking about on-field results?...No. I brought it up once, and as a thought exercise. Because the idea of completely blowing up the team and letting it--name an all--move to another state over off-the-field embarrassments is something I have no idea how to process other than a kind of "lashing out" and a perceived quick fix. But you are definitely right in that my experience as a Redskins fan is likely different from yours and perhaps many others. I can't know what it must be like to have Snyder as your primary team owner in like 90% of your Redskins memories lol...that would give a completely different perspective.

 

As for how new teams do as expansion teams compared to how existing teams do in new locations, the stats lean heavily in favor of existing teams that move to new locations having much higher success much quicker. The Rams are like the prototype of that lol...check this out: after moving to L.A. from Cleveland, they were in the league championship game within 4 years, and went to it in the next 2 consecutive years. After moving from L.A. to St. Louis, they made the Super Bowl within 5 years, and went to 2 SBs within 3 years. Now they've moved back to L.A. and may end up in the SB within 3 years. The Oilers moved to Tennessee and were in the SB within 3 years. The Browns moved to Baltimore, became the Ravens, and won the SB within 5 years. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

6 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

You could always support the Ravens....

 

...if you're a traitorous son of a ****.

 

I ain’t from Baltimore, moe 

 

I say my “o” sounds properly.

[Forehead]

26 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

- Snyder will be gone

- The new owner will automatically be significantly better

- Positive results will show almost instantly

- It's impossible for a Snyder-owned team to do better than a new DC-based expansion team

- Losing the history that goes along with the franchise, its name, its logo, and it's uniforms will have no effect on any of us

 

The idea seems like a desire for a quick fix, without truly thinking through whether or not anything will be fixed outside of maybe PR for a season or two.

 

 

- Seems like the biggest win of the exercise, and as has been said, it isn't just about the losing, it's about the fact that he's not a particularly good person either.

- I don't think I said this, what I said is the new owner couldn't be any worse.  We already know we have dog**** for an owner, I'm willing to take chance on the next one not being dog****.  Even semi-likable would be fine.

- Has anyone said positive results would be instant?  I think just having something new to be interested in would be enough.

- Did anyone else say this?

- Personally, this doesn't bother me in the slightest, for reasons I outlined earlier, but I can't speak for anyone else.

 

I agree with you that it wouldn't fix anything other than some PR for a few seasons.  In this thought exercise, I'm ready for something new.  The amount of apathy I've felt this season is surprising, and it isn't about the losing.  It's about the way they strung Cousins along, and for what?  It's about the way they disparaged Scot McCloughnan over his drinking.  Suing season ticket holders, raised parking prices, obstructed view seats, Bruce and Vinny.  All of it.  The alternative can't be any worse.

[thebluefood]

Honestly, in retrospect, that's something I kinda wished happened awhile back. And it almost did (https://www.bigblueview.com/2016/9/24/13021216/dallas-redskins-yes-that-almost-happened-cowboys-washington-nfl-history) 

Quote

The negotiations for Murchison to purchase the Redskins went quite well. Marshall was willing to sell and was reported to need funds for his laundry operations across Maryland. An agreement was set to finalize the deal for $600,000 with the provision that Marshall would manage the team for five years even though the club would relocate to Dallas.

On the day that Clint, Jr. arrived at Marshall’s attorney’s office to sign the agreement, terms of the deal had been changed. It seems that Marshall now had inked a 10-year management clause as one of the contract’s unauthorized deviations. This angered Murchison - who then nixed the entire sale.

 

If I had my druthers, though - I'd have this team move who-knows-where and the NFL immediately put an expansion team in Washington, like they did with the Senators back in the 1960s (except this time they're actually stable and well managed instead of a game of ownership hot potato that led to them leaving 11 years later).

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

5 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I keep talking about on-field results?...No. I brought it up once, and as a thought exercise. Because the idea of completely blowing up the team and letting it--name an all--move to another state over off-the-field embarrassments is something I have no idea how to process other than a kind of "lashing out" and a perceived quick fix. But you are definitely right in that my experience as a Redskins fan is likely different from yours and perhaps many others. I can't know what it must be like to have Snyder as your primary team owner in like 90% of your Redskins memories lol...that would give a completely different perspective.

 

As for how new teams do as expansion teams compared to how existing teams do in new locations, the stats lean heavily in favor of existing teams that move to new locations having much higher success much quicker. The Rams are like the prototype of that lol...check this out: after moving to L.A. from Cleveland, they were in the league championship game within 4 years, and went to it in the next 2 consecutive years. After moving from L.A. to St. Louis, they made the Super Bowl within 5 years, and went to 2 SBs within 3 years. Now they've moved back to L.A. and may end up in the SB within 3 years. The Oilers moved to Tennessee and were in the SB within 3 years. The Browns moved to Baltimore, became the Ravens, and won the SB within 5 years. 

Again, i don’t care if the REDSKINS move. They can stay. That’s really of no concern to me in this case. 

 

I just want another option and a chance to actually be proud of the team I root for.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Again, i don’t care if the REDSKINS move. They can stay. That’s really of no concern to me in this case. 

 

I just want another option and a chance to actually be proud of the team I root for.

1

 

Um....when the thread asked "Would you support the idea of the team moving on and starting over with an expansion team", you said "There is nothing in sports that I would want more.'

 

So your last post is a bit confusing.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

 

And the irony of me posting this on team owned site is not lost on me lol.

 

in fact, ES and the Skins fan pocket of twitter are keeping my interest alive lol 

Just now, Califan007 said:

 

Um....when the thread asked "Would you support the idea of the team moving on and starting over with an expansion team", you said "There is nothing in sports that I would want more.'

 

So your last post is a bit confusing.

Ah, the Califan semantics argument 

 

I posted that before I read the entire thing. At the end of the day, I do not care if the Skins move or stay. 

 

The creation of a new American Football team in the DC area is what I’d be after. Don’t care the reasoning behind it. 

It doesn’t matter if Snyder wakes up and decides to move to Wyoming because he wants to hunt Antelopes or if Bezos wakes up and decides he wants a 33rd team lol 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, Forehead said:

 

 

- Seems like the biggest win of the exercise, and as has been said, it isn't just about the losing, it's about the fact that he's not a particularly good person either.

- I don't think I said this, what I said is the new owner couldn't be any worse.  We already know we have dog**** for an owner, I'm willing to take chance on the next one not being dog****.  Even semi-likable would be fine.

- Has anyone said positive results would be instant?  I think just having something new to be interested in would be enough.

- Did anyone else say this?

- Personally, this doesn't bother me in the slightest, for reasons I outlined earlier, but I can't speak for anyone else.

 

I agree with you that it wouldn't fix anything other than some PR for a few seasons.  In this thought exercise, I'm ready for something new.  The amount of apathy I've felt this season is surprising, and it isn't about the losing.  It's about the way they strung Cousins along, and for what?  It's about the way they disparaged Scot McCloughnan over his drinking.  Suing season ticket holders, raised parking prices, obstructed view seats, Bruce and Vinny.  All of it.  The alternative can't be any worse.

 

1) Jack Kent Cooke wasn't a particularly good person, either...arguably an even worse person than Snyder.

2) JKC would not really be considered "semi-likeable"...while Snyder has actually been called likeable by previous coaches he fired.

3) The reactions have been absent the possibility of a long, drawn-out road to positive results, though...and the effect it would/could possibly have on viewing the decision. Because I'm sorry, if the scenario in the thought exercise I presented actually played out, 90% of the people who would be on board with the Redskins leaving town and starting over with a new team would be following the Skins like a mf'er lol...hell, half of this board was ready to do that with Kirk stinkin' Cousins alone.

4) I haven't seen a response yet in favor of the Skins moving that even slightly considers the new team being even worse while the Skins actually improve in their answers.

5) Well, a few years ago Forbes ranked the Redskins #4 (I think) in brand loyalty, basically saying that the team name, emblem and everything else that symbolized the Redskins is the reason the team has been able to "mint money even during the down years". So I'm gonna assume that far more Skins fans would be affected by losing the team's history that those who would not. I'm not even making a judgment either way...just saying that it matters to a helluva lot more Skins fans than just us who are ****ing on this site day after day.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I’d expect an expansion team to suck. That’s normal 

 

 

not an issue for me. Skins suck every year currently 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

19 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Ah, the Califan semantics argument 

 

I posted that before I read the entire thing. At the end of the day, I do not care if the Skins move or stay. 

 

 

 

How can it be "semantics" if you're even admitting that your response was made before reading the entire post? That has nothing whatsoever to do with semantics. How the hell would I know if you read the entire thing or not? lol... Not to mention, how much of the "entire thing" did you read before saying nothing would make you happier in sports? The title? You at least read the title, right?

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

4) I haven't seen a response yet in favor of the Skins moving that even slightly considers the new team being even worse while the Skins actually improve in their answers.

 

 

I'll zoom in on #4 for you...

 

Anything is possible right? If your specific scenario comes true, then I guess it would overall NOT end up being a favorable series of events. Then again, I don't see that as very likely unless you're simply talking about a very short-term scenario where the Snyder team is better than the new Washington team for a couple years. 

 

But, over the past 20 years, this is, on the average, a 7-9 team that hasn't shown ANY ability to sustain occasional bubble-up success. So, if Snyder and his typical type of President or GM continue to make decisions for the team, I don't believe they would be more likely than an expansion team in becoming a true, consistent contender. That's what I would be holding out for. 

 

Also, a couple notes on MY response in the beginning of the thread...I was "in" based on the Washington team retaining the name, colors, history, etc. (similar to what happened with Cleveland in the 1990s). Secondly, a full tear down and rebuild under Snyder is all I could really see to drastically change the fortunes of a team he owns. So, for me to truly buy into your "Snyder takes the team to North Dakota and suddenly they are good" I would assume he would have done something like that. I also stated in my response that a full expansionesque rebuild is the more realistic version of this. Yes, it would all still roll up to Snyder, but maybe he'd seed the organization with the right folks to succeed underneath him. 

 

So, I'd be fine with Snyder bolting town and having to leave the name in DC while we get a new team and ownership

 

OR 

 

Snyder going full expansion team explosion on the team while they are still in DC and starting over

 

Neither are likely...but the point of this thread is to dream.