2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

I think there’s a distinction to be made between guys that are injury prone and guys that had a (at least somewhat) significant injury.  The latter I don’t mind so much - guys like Fuller, Moreau and Guice (and I’m sure there are others).  Guys that had multiple issues in college or the pros are a different matter - like Reed, Thompson, Richardson.  

I love Guice, but he was limited his senior year because of an ankle injury. That combined with his physical running style led many to wonder whether he would have a career marred by injuries. Now he's coming back from an ACL. I wouldn't assume this wouldn't be a consistent problem. I agree about Moreau. A CB with a pec tear is nothing to worry about. A CB with a microfracture surgery though? That's also classic skins. Regardless of how well he played the year before we traded him. 

 

 

[RWJ]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 11:21 AM, volsmet said:

 

Yes, Mr. Turing, I am saying he wouldn’t be worth a draft pick if there were 17 rounds. Grier holds the ball forever, is clearly easy to confuse, & can’t put anything on a pass without a lot of loft. You didn’t see any hint of an nfl prospect in that game, against a team of guys nobody recruited. ISU rushed 3 because Grier can’t fit the ball into a tight window vs ISU athletes & he can’t do anything about blitzes that begin 10 yards behind the los. There is no chance he ever becomes a decent nfl player.

 

I deleted the part about mods to save bandwidth. 

 

 

Absolutely.

 

Changed your mind on Grier? That’s fascinating. I’ll check out the Fin.

First of all, if you are referring me to Mr. Turing.  Who is that and why?  Secondly, with all due respect I am a poster just like you are.  You and I neither are scouts or NFL beat reporters that do mocks for a living.  How do you know that both Grier is not worth being picked in the draft even if there were 17 rounds and that Jones will be a failure?  You and I have no idea how they will fair in the NFL until they get the chance.  Why did Jones win MVP in the Senior Bowl if he's such a failure?  Some of your responses are puzzling to me, Volsmet.

[skinny21]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I love Guice, but he was limited his senior year because of an ankle injury. That combined with his physical running style led many to wonder whether he would have a career marred by injuries. Now he's coming back from an ACL. I wouldn't assume this wouldn't be a consistent problem.

 

I wouldn’t assume that either, because you just never know, particularly in a sport that demands so much physically.  On the other hand, a guy that played through a knee injury leading people to believe he might be injury prone through his career?  That’s pretty ridiculous, IMO.

 

Now that he had the ACL, it is fair to question his future.  Much like Orakpo with his pec tears.  The first one shouldn’t have lead to longevity/injury prone questions, but after his second?  Totally legitimate to question.  

 

Some sort of degenerative issue (like Kelly), sure, I’d absolutely get that line of thinking.  

 

Bottom line, you can’t just limit yourself to guys that have never been injured... it just reduces the pool way too much.  

[mistertim]

31 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying I would draft Bryce Love. I was saying, I think the Skins might. He had a disappointing senior year, is small, and tore his ACL in his last college game, on 12/1. He had surgery sometime in December. I don't see him being able to perform any drills or run a 40 before the NFL draft, and I don't know that he is ready for the start of the regular season. He is going to drop. I don't see any way that he's a second rounder. 

 

I'd presume the opposite. The current regime loves injury prone players, seemingly only seeing the value, since they can be signed or drafted at reduced cost, and consistently ignoring the risks. Paul Richardson? I'll believe they have changed when I see they have changed. 

 

Thanks, I actually somehow managed to completely forget that he had a major injury right at the end of his season. Yeah, no way he's a 2nd rounder with that. Probably a mid round guy but could fall pretty far. I still don't think I'd take a flyer on him...hopefully we'll have a decent stable of RBs this year (again, assuming AP is back and Guice is healthy and regains form). There are other positions where we are in more need of depth and can get better value in the mid rounds, especially at OL, ILB, Edge, etc.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, RWJ said:

First of all, if you are referring me to Mr. Turing.  Who is that and why?  Secondly, with all due respect I am a poster just like you are.  You and I neither are scouts or NFL beat reporters that do mocks for a living.  How do you know that both Grier is not worth being picked in the draft even if there were 17 rounds and that Jones will be a failure?  You and I have no idea how they will fair in the NFL until they get the chance.  Why did Jones win MVP in the Senior Bowl if he's such a failure?  Some of your responses are puzzling to me, Volsmet.

 

I've noticed that volsmet seems to have an almost visceral dislike for Grier, but not really sure why. It's less "I've watched his film and I see <x> and <y> issues with his game, which makes me believe he will have a hard time transitioning to the NFL and probably isn't worth a top pick IMO", which is the type of analysis we generally see around here, and more "He's an absolute bum. I wouldn't even draft him in the 7th round. He's awful, just the worst". Maybe Grier slept with his girlfriend or something. 

 

As far as the Mr Turing stuff, the only thing I can guess is that he was using a relatively obscure and roundabout way of saying you're repetitive or some sort of bot or program as Alan Turing was a mathematician and computer scientist who devised the "Turing Test" which is a way to test an artificial intelligence's ability to pass for human.

 

Or maybe he just pulled a name out of his keister. 

[volsmet]

18 minutes ago, RWJ said:

First of all, if you are referring me to Mr. Turing.  Who is that and why?  Secondly, with all due respect I am a poster just like you are.  You and I neither are scouts or NFL beat reporters that do mocks for a living.  How do you know that both Grier is not worth being picked in the draft even if there were 17 rounds and that Jones will be a failure?  You and I have no idea how they will fair in the NFL until they get the chance.  Why did Jones win MVP in the Senior Bowl if he's such a failure?  Some of your responses are puzzling to me, Volsmet.

 

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I've noticed that volsmet seems to have an almost visceral dislike for Grier, but not really sure why. It's less "I've watched his film and I see <x> and <y> issues with his game, which makes me believe he will have a hard time transitioning to the NFL and probably isn't worth a top pick IMO", which is the type of analysis we generally see around here, and more "He's an absolute bum. I wouldn't even draft him in the 7th round. He's awful, just the worst". Maybe Grier slept with his girlfriend or something. 

 

As far as the Mr Turing stuff, the only thing I can guess is that he was using a relatively obscure and roundabout way of saying you're repetitive or some sort of bot or program as Alan Turing was a mathematician and computer scientist who devised the "Turing Test" which is a way to test an artificial intelligence's ability to pass for human.

 

Or maybe he just pulled a name out of his keister. 

 

On 2/14/2019 at 12:51 PM, volsmet said:

 

So after the first half, I just can’t imagine drafting him in any round. He struggles mightily to get anything down field without a lot of loft, he puts maximum effort to get the ball outside, on the near hash, and the ball takes forever to get there - in the nfl that’s just getting someone killed. At the end of the half he tries fitting in a back shoulder throw, but he can’t push the ball without leaving it up for eternity, time after time his passes sail, short & intermediate. You see a broken play, he attempted to make something of it, but when he moves he can’t do much, the balls just sail. He had 8 throws that were wasted, all high. In the first pass, he takes his time, he gets the ball to the right guy, but it’s a lot of effort and the pass as nothing on it, his arm is not strong enough. On a pass he throws over the RBs head, which is fine, he has Sills at the bottom, but he doesn’t even look, he knows he’s not sticking in a 10 yard dig on the opposite hash, that’s a pick6 on an extraordinarily simple throw that he can’t make unless it’s his first read - he’s not resetting quickly and getting that pass in, not a chance.

 

Right now, I wouldn’t want him as an udfa. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I think there’s a distinction to be made between guys that are injury prone and guys that had a (at least somewhat) significant injury.  The latter I don’t mind so much - guys like Fuller, Moreau and Guice (and I’m sure there are others).  Guys that had multiple issues in college or the pros are a different matter - like Reed, Thompson, Richardson.  

 

That reads like I’m saying it’s a black and white issue, which isn’t what I intended.  Gambling on a guy in the draft that is coming off a big injury doesn’t seem quite as risky as one would think.  Richardson, on the other hand, was a terrible investment.  

 

This is coming from a guy who loved Love on the draft thread last year.

 

2 questions about Love that loomed from 2017 leading to 2018:

 

A.  Can he survive in the NFL with his slight build

B.  Unlike his predecessor (McCaffrey), he didn't prove he can be a weapon in the passing game. 

 

You can argue he at best keeps these same questions alive.  He was ok as a passing weapon but nothing killer.  HIs YPA was almost half the previous season.  And he got hurt.  My point is more about his build than anything else. 

[volsmet]

On 2/15/2019 at 11:32 AM, volsmet said:

 

He was rushed by 3 most of the night. I don’t see disagreement as a negative, I view it as a chance to get into more nuanced discussion. Iowa State sent some blitzes from 10+ yards & Grier just didn’t let the ball go, he couldn’t make a play, and that defense has nearly no talent. Grier took more sacks 15 yards deep than he made decent throws. ISU forced him to try and fit the ball in and he can’t, he processed everything incredibly slowly, he recognized nothing, adjusted to nothing, & as a sr couldn’t figure out how to move the ball v a team Drake didn’t struggle to move it against.

 

The games people like...the Texas game for instance, display why he’s not draftable to me, the Iowa State footage is shockingly bad. 

 

Again, I’m comfortable being wrong, it occurs with regularity. I would love to see anything people trust will translate to the NFL. Months before the draft, minds change every day. Dballers, for instance.

 

 

 

In addition @RWJ it’s interesting that Jones has been mocked, by Charlie Campbell, to the Giants, since I posted that the Giants love him. A wild world of coincidences we live in.

 

 

@MrTuring 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, volsmet said:

 

 

In addition @RWJ it’s interesting that Jones has been mocked, by Charlie Campbell, to the Giants, since I posted that the Giants love him. A wild world of coincidences we live in.

 

 

@MrTuring 

Volsmet, I can say that at least we all have our opinions.  Some are right and some are wrong.  Many NFL prospects have been criticized before they were drafted and went on to have good to NFL enshrinement careers.   No one is right all the time.  I hope that you can agree with that.  Good day, Sir.   

[volsmet]

6 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Volsmet, I can say that at least we all have our opinions.  Some are right and some are wrong.  Many NFL prospects have been criticized before they were drafted and went on to have good to NFL enshrinement careers.   No one is right all the time.  I hope that you can agree with that.  Good day, Sir.   

 

Absolutely. I’ve expressed the same in more ways than, even your newest namesake, could possibly count. 

 

I don’t hate Jones, I’m not sure how you arrived at that — I have not worked out an opinion on him. I’m not a fan of hedging opinions, I’ve asked someone to show me anything that displays the gifts Grier has that give him a chance to become a top 20 QB, or even a starting QB, or even an NFL QB. No one has shared a consideration other than moxy & no one has shown any clip of him doing anything that warrants a draft pick. 

 

I don’t care who is right or wrong, I don’t care who is good or not, I enjoy the discussion — I’ve asked for the other side of Grier & been left hanging — prom night all over again.

[Anselmheifer]

9 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

 

In addition @RWJ it’s interesting that Jones has been mocked, by Charlie Campbell, to the Giants, since I posted that the Giants love him. A wild world of coincidences we live in.

 

 

@MrTuring 

I think Walter football is the least accurate of any of the prognostic sites. Also, your gif game is strong. 

I've seen a couple of posters comment about signing Foles. If the Eagles don't franchise him, that would afford us a ton of room to improve the team through the draft. And, we DO have enough cap room. We currently have 20 million in cap room and can easily clear another 15. Imagine signing Foles and then drafting Hockenson in the first, Deebo Samuel in the second, and then interior OL in the 3rd. The upgrade to the offense would be enormous. Just a thought. 

 

I'd be just as much in favor of a tear down. Take the entire Smith cap hit this year. Trade our first for an extra 2nd and a first next year. Position for Tua, or better yet, Lawrence in 2021. Give me a QB that can take apart Alabama or Clemson any day of the week. 

 

 

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think Walter football is the least accurate of any of the prognostic sites. Also, your gif game is strong. 

I've seen a couple of posters comment about signing Foles. If the Eagles don't franchise him, that would afford us a ton of room to improve the team through the draft. And, we DO have enough cap room. We currently have 20 million in cap room and can easily clear another 15. Imagine signing Foles and then drafting Hockenson in the first, Deebo Samuel in the second, and then interior OL in the 3rd. The upgrade to the offense would be enormous. Just a thought. 

 

I'd be just as much in favor of a tear down. Take the entire Smith cap hit this year. Trade our first for an extra 2nd and a first next year. Position for Tua, or better yet, Lawrence in 2021. Give me a QB that can take apart Alabama or Clemson any day of the week. 

 

 

 

I totally agree, we do have cap room to make a big FA move at QB right now.

 

As for 2021, get ready for a lockout. 

[Anselmheifer]

5 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Absolutely. I’ve expressed the same in more ways than, even your newest namesake, could possibly count. 

 

I don’t hate Jones, I’m not sure how you arrived at that — I have not worked out an opinion on him. I’m not a fan of hedging opinions, I’ve asked someone to show me anything that displays the gifts Grier has that give him a chance to become a top 20 QB, or even a starting QB, or even an NFL QB. No one has shared a consideration other than moxy & no one has shown any clip of him doing anything that warrants a draft pick. 

 

I don’t care who is right or wrong, I don’t care who is good or not, I enjoy the discussion — I’ve asked for the other side of Grier & been left hanging — prom night all over again.

 

I've got mixed feelings on Grier. He is mobile. He posted the fastest radar gun time for any prospect at the Senior Bowl, so his arm isn't weak. He was the most prolific deep passer in the NCAA over the past 2 years and the best against the blitz last year. Those stats don't happen by accident. Yet, he didn't look good in the Senior Bowl practices. I don't think he has the impeccable mechanics etc of a typical elite prospect. 

This year seems like a mish mash after you get past the first few prospects. It wouldn't surprise me to see Stidham or Minshew or Finley be better than Lock. I could see any of them becoming the next Cousins, or all of them failing. 

[volsmet]

17 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think Walter football is the least accurate of any of the prognostic sites. Also, your gif game is strong. 

I've seen a couple of posters comment about signing Foles. If the Eagles don't franchise him, that would afford us a ton of room to improve the team through the draft. And, we DO have enough cap room. We currently have 20 million in cap room and can easily clear another 15. Imagine signing Foles and then drafting Hockenson in the first, Deebo Samuel in the second, and then interior OL in the 3rd. The upgrade to the offense would be enormous. Just a thought. 

 

I'd be just as much in favor of a tear down. Take the entire Smith cap hit this year. Trade our first for an extra 2nd and a first next year. Position for Tua, or better yet, Lawrence in 2021. Give me a QB that can take apart Alabama or Clemson any day of the week. 

 

 

 

Charlie has decent sources for a draft guru — more has been shared recently, publicly, since I shared that in January, which I probably shouldn’t have. Not that my post meant anything, but I can’t get carried away on a forum, which is easy to see myself doing in the fine company I’ve found myself in of late. Perhaps there is an es private group, the Guice... diagnosis, for instance, could be shared there.

 

If there is any justice in this world, “Gif game is strong” - will be inscribed on my tombstone. Gifs can, at times, help ease the tension when dudes disagree on the net; hard not to laugh at a well utilized gif.

 

I’d rather trade up to #1 — and then draft Grier — than make Foles a top 5 paid QB. I love your Hock, Samuel, OG combination, but I’m not a Foles fan, obviously. He’s a solid QB, but I’d rather give a Matt Moore nothing than Foles 28 million. Folesgold is not an uncommon refrain among sanctimonious football folks.

 

As always, I could certainly be wrong about him. You just can’t miss & win when giving a guy that much — Minnesota is finding that out with better players than we can surround Foles with. 

 

I’d like to see us blow it up, but I wanted the same a year ago. We have an extraordinarily narrow route to a SB title trying to build on what we’re committed to. Imo

 

[bowhunter]

24 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I've seen a couple of posters comment about signing Foles. If the Eagles don't franchise him,

 

We really can't afford Foles, without gutting the team, and then..what's the point? But, where he ends up is a bit of a wild card. If he ends up being signed by NYG, Jax, Cincy, or Miami then we have much better chances of having Murray, Haskins or (don't look Volsmet) Grier being at 15 for us.

[Anselmheifer]

9 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I’d rather trade up to #1 — and then draft Grier — than make Foles a top 5 paid QB. I love your Hock, Samuel, OG combination, but I’m not a Foles fan, obviously. He’s a solid QB, but I’d rather give a Matt Moore nothing than Foles 28 million. Folesgold is not an uncommon refrain among sanctimonious football folks.

 

As always, I could certainly be wrong about him. You just can’t miss & win when giving a guy that much — Minnesota is finding that out with better players than we can surround Foles with. 

 

I’d like to see us blow it up, but I wanted the same a year ago. We have an extraordinarily narrow route to a SB title trying to build on what we’re committed to. Imo

 

 

We could do Hockenson, Deebo, interior OL and Finley, Minshew, or whoever with our second third round pick. I'm not stuck on Foles. Just pointing out that we DO have options. 

Also, there is no way we are going to blow this up. Allen seems intent on presenting us as being ever so close. Gruden and Allen likely feel pressure to win. Especially Gruden. 

[volsmet]

17 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I've got mixed feelings on Grier. He is mobile. He posted the fastest radar gun time for any prospect at the Senior Bowl, so his arm isn't weak. He was the most prolific deep passer in the NCAA over the past 2 years and the best against the blitz last year. Those stats don't happen by accident. Yet, he didn't look good in the Senior Bowl practices. I don't think he has the impeccable mechanics etc of a typical elite prospect. 

This year seems like a mish mash after you get past the first few prospects. It wouldn't surprise me to see Stidham or Minshew or Finley be better than Lock. I could see any of them becoming the next Cousins, or all of them failing. 

 

When you watch Lock you don’t question that his arm is better than Grier’s, or do you? Seriously, the radar numbers are interesting, but I haven’t seen any hint of that arm on film, I’ve seen the opposite. I believe his arm is incredibly weak, I can’t find anything but lobs that show any arm strength, and I see that on hudl every week watching hs prospects. 

 

Every QB I’ve watched has nfl throws but Grier. But, others see what I don’t. I just want it posted, I’m eager to be shown the Grier arm - not lofted passes, show the ball on a line, that’s what keeps a defense from collapsing, that’s what gets the ball to a wr in time to make a play. I don’t think he can possibly pass in the nfl with the arm he’s shown in games. I don’t see anything decent in Grier but his toughness. His athleticism looked dreadful v ISU. 

 

I’ll watch more, I’ll not give up, but I’d prefer some assistance, people are getting upset with me.

 

Just now, Anselmheifer said:

 

We could do Hockenson, Deebo, interior OL and Finley, Minshew, or whoever with our second third round pick. I'm not stuck on Foles. Just pointing out that we DO have options. 

Also, there is no way we are going to blow this up. Allen seems intent on presenting us as being ever so close. Gruden and Allen likely feel pressure to win. Especially Gruden. 

 

Absolutely. I’m all in on that draft with Thorson, perhaps Finley or Rypien. I agree, we won’t blow it up, unfortunately we seem intent on playing in 14 tightly contested games & a blowout or two in the other direction. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying I would draft Bryce Love. I was saying, I think the Skins might. He had a disappointing senior year, is small, and tore his ACL in his last college game, on 12/1. He had surgery sometime in December. I don't see him being able to perform any drills or run a 40 before the NFL draft, and I don't know that he is ready for the start of the regular season. He is going to drop. I don't see any way that he's a second rounder. 

 

I'd presume the opposite. The current regime loves injury prone players, seemingly only seeing the value, since they can be signed or drafted at reduced cost, and consistently ignoring the risks. Paul Richardson? I'll believe they have changed when I see they have changed. 

 

It's possible that they double down on the approach.  If you see my posts in the Bruce Allen thread, you'd see that i am far from a fan of his.  But I'd figure if you keep getting burned by the same flame, you are eventually going to be gun shy to stick your hand in the same fire.  But who knows.  The other thing is if they bring Peterson, they probably have a logjam at RB unless they just stick Love on IR and let it ride all season.

[mistertim]

39 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

When you watch Lock you don’t question that his arm is better than Grier’s, or do you? Seriously, the radar numbers are interesting, but I haven’t seen any hint of that arm on film, I’ve seen the opposite. I believe his arm is incredibly weak, I can’t find anything but lobs that show any arm strength, and I see that on hudl every week watching hs prospects. 

 

Every QB I’ve watched has nfl throws but Grier. But, others see what I don’t. I just want it posted, I’m eager to be shown the Grier arm - not lofted passes, show the ball on a line, that’s what keeps a defense from collapsing, that’s what gets the ball to a wr in time to make a play. I don’t think he can possibly pass in the nfl with the arm he’s shown in games. I don’t see anything decent in Grier but his toughness. His athleticism looked dreadful v ISU. 

 

I’ll watch more, I’ll not give up, but I’d prefer some assistance, people are getting upset with me.

 

 

According to PFF's metrics, Grier was the best QB in the nation at throwing a go route. How can you do that if you have a weak arm? Note the yards after the catch below, which means he's hitting guys in stride. You can't hit guys deep in stride as consistently as he did and as well as he did if you have a weak arm.

 

Quote

No college quarterback throws a better go route than Grier, a trend that has continued from a season ago. He leads the nation with 1,207 yards and 24 big-time throws on go routes, doing so without throwing a turnover-worthy pass. In total, he’s completed 35 of 68 go routes for 17 touchdowns, averaging a hefty 24.2 yards downfield per target, routinely leading his receivers so well that they’ve gained 32.8 percent of his passing yards after the catch.

 

And keep in mind that he also didn't exactly have a star studded pass catching group. His best WR was Sills who is ok, but will most likely be a mid to late rounder this draft...so it's not like he was just throwing it up for grabs and had elite WRs bailing him out constantly. Does he have a Josh Allen rocket launcher? No, but he isn't a Pennington either. I'd say his arm would pretty much be NFL average or maybe a little below average. 

 

As far as Lock, he obviously has a bigger arm than Grier and I DO like some things about his game, but I have serious concerns about him and most of it centers around his performance under pressure. He was behind one of the better OLs in the nation and it showed as he was only sacked 13 times in 2018 and 11 in 2017. Watch his cutups...there are so many throws where he's back there completely clean for like 5 seconds scanning the field. And when I watched his cutups I noticed that he seemed to panic a bit when the rushers did get to him. The stats seem to show that as well. Check his numbers in games where he was sacked more than once and pressured multiple times...his completion percentage absolutely went down the tubes. 

 

To me that's more worrying than a guy not having an elite cannon arm. People get way too caught up in that stuff. Yes it's great to have a guy with a really powerful arm who can fit it effortlessly into tight windows but what good is that if his overall accuracy isn't consistently on point? 

 

With Grier I DO have some concerns as well. His mechanics aren't consistent enough, and his base gets too big and off center sometimes which causes the ball to sail on him occasionally (as you can see in a couple of those GIFs you posted). He also tries too hard to make plays at times. That can be a good thing in moderation because it means he can make things happen, but he takes it too far sometimes and it ends up in very ill advised forced throws. See the multiple red zone INTs he had against Kansas last season. He still had 4 TDs and they won the game but those INTs were just plain bad decisions when he was trying to be superman. He'll have to temper that a bit in the NFL.

[volsmet]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arm Strength –Has struggled to drive the ball down the field, particularly once he’s forced off of his throwing platform. Opportunities to stand in tall or release a throw from a set base can generate ample power, zip and velocity.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/11/19/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-will-grier/

 

 

 

Just now, mistertim said:

 

According to PFF's metrics, Grier was the best QB in the nation at throwing a go route. How can you do that if you have a weak arm? Note the yards after the catch below, which means he's hitting guys in stride. You can't hit guys deep in stride as consistently as he did and as well as he did if you have a weak arm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely, I’d love to address what you’ve posted. I’ll be back in a few, excellent post for discussion, didn’t want to appear to ignore it, posts like that make this thread worth returning to over & over.

 

Re: anyone on Grier 

*Video of his ability to drive a ball. 

[mistertim]

Just to as a little counter point to the "struggles to drive the ball downfield when forced off his throwing platform"...this throw was after being forced off his throwing platform and somewhat off balance. It wasn't a bullet on a frozen rope but it wasn't supposed to be as it needed a little loft to be successful. That being said, it was still 45-50 yards in the air, and he dropped an absolute dime to his guy in stride in the back of the end zone. That it was with 24 seconds left to win the game makes it even more impressive IMO.

 

EDIT: After watching again, it wasn't just "off balance" it was actually off of one foot so he basically had no base and had to use pure torque. 

 

 

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, volsmet said:

What round would you take Gary in?

 

Third.  I think he's another Rasheem Green.

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, volsmet said:

Easy 10+ wins with a rookie QB & heavy contract on the pine means Steve would trade up bigly for Kyler, or so I’d interpret it.

 

I think it depends on the cost.  If it's 1 + 1 and some mid round positioning (something like trade a third, get back a fifth), then I would do it.

 

But it would also depend on where I was at in my regime.  If I'm Jay/Bruce, then I am going to go all in to win the division next year.  Which may or may not mean trading for Murray.

 

But if I was a new hire that had some time, I would:

 

1 - Trade Trent to Houston for a second.

2 - Trade up to get Kyler

3 - Cut/let walk everyone I need to in order to cut Alex Smith this season and eat his cap hit in one go.

 

I'd get out of the god awful decision making from the past as quickly as possible to keep it from leading me into more awful decision making.

 

Team wouldn't win 10 games under those circumstances, that cap penalty would be too much to overcome.  But they'd be competitive, and by year two I could be in good shape.

[Skinsinparadise]

Drew Lock has a rocket.  I can see why Elway supposedly really digs the guy.  Strong arm dude just like him -- though Elway obviously in a different class.    Just watched 2 of his games.  He's fun to watch but he seems to short arm and miss his share of throws -- that would be a red flag for Bruce Arian's take on QBs from the book I read from him.  But Arians would love him arm and ability and accuracy all over the field.  Lock also can be slippery in the pocket and has some sneaky athleticism.

 

I looked at Daniel Jones, still don't like him but wouldn't hate him if he's a 2nd round choice.  Jones tape against N. Carolina was better than some of my other watchings of him.  If I had to pick the nicest thing about Jones for me is he plays with some grit, stands tall in the pocket.    I on the aggregate don't care for him because for a guy who throws mostly short passes in the quick game -- his accuracy isn't hot.  He's also turnover prone -- Ints, tipped balls, fumbles.   Though I'd say both him and Lock had shaky receivers even though Hall is good.  I love Lock's personality and energy -- as a personality Jones is too meek-soft spoken for my taste. 

 

I don't think Jones has a weak arm but to me it comes off just average.  You can see some deep throws here.  Lock without a lot of effort throws a 60 yard bomb.  We have another clip where he throws an intermediate out route tight right before the sidelines -- I've heard some coaches in interviews say that type of throw is one of the hardest to make. Then another from Lock where he's escaping the pocket and can't step much into his throw but still gets some good mustard on it.   I show 2 Jones  semi deep balls both of which if you slow it down, you'd see the receivers had to slow down because they were slightly under thrown.  

 

[Going Commando]

I get a strong Keanu Neal vibe from Johnathan Abram.    But Abram makes more plays on the ball in the air.  Watching him run the alley is breathtaking.  Looks like a definite first round talent to me.

 

Abram is the kind of safety I like.  A Kam Chancellor school box safety who is a force in your run defense and can blitz and single cover all manner of Y receivers.  To me, this kind of player is much more valuable than a single-high safeties who spend all of their time in deep zones and over brackets.  Derwin James vs HaHa Clinton Dix.

 

I know there are a ton of Derwin James fans in here, if you loved James, you have got to love Abram.