Riggo'sRangers Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 26 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: I feel like people are forgetting that what Kirk was asking for in 2015 even was more than guys like Aaron Rodgers, Stafford, Brady, Manning etc. So yeah, you can argue that we could have had him for 19 million, by the way that contract would be coming to an end soon anyway, but we would have been paying him more than the top QBs in the league at the time. And this was after one good year, after a trash 2014, where honestly the first half of the season wasnt good. All the guys you just mentioned were on old deals and not in any dangerous game of franchise tag. Apples to oranges. I think people tend to validate the way Bruce handled the scenario because it aligns with their own opinion. That he hadn't shown enough to be worthy and that's fine to have that opinion. However, Bruce should know a lot more about how all this could play out, the future of the cap, future QB deals, etc. than the everyday fan. Bruce was never sold on Kirk but paid him handsomely as a rental until he could figure something else out. If he wasn't sold on Kirk, he should have had a better plan, plain and simple. Who knows? Perhaps Bruce is right and that Kirk will end up being nothing special and fizzle out elsewhere. That still doesn't excuse him from how he played this hand that will result in getting nothing in return for their investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Bruce was never sold on Kirk but paid him handsomely as a rental until he could figure something else out. If he wasn't sold on Kirk, he should have had a better plan, plain and simple. Who knows? Perhaps Bruce is right and that Kirk will end up being nothing special and fizzle out elsewhere. That still doesn't excuse him from how he played this hand that will result in getting nothing in return for their investment. This is a HUGE part of it. We got lucky with Smith, and while I'm happy with the move given the circumstances, we shouldn't be here. This is not the optimal outcome of the Kirk saga. Kirk should have signed long term, or there should have been a successor in the works. We've had an idea that he MIGHT not come back since 2015 so to not have a single QB we drafted in the system behind him is irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan73 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 If Kirk had changed and shown he could be the guy to guide the team to the playoffs then he gets paid. If you draft a guy high you then get qb controversy when Cousins struggled in the red zone or close games are lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 hours ago, OVCChairman said: This is a HUGE part of it. We got lucky with Smith, and while I'm happy with the move given the circumstances, we shouldn't be here. This is not the optimal outcome of the Kirk saga. Kirk should have signed long term, or there should have been a successor in the works. We've had an idea that he MIGHT not come back since 2015 so to not have a single QB we drafted in the system behind him is irresponsible. yet drafting a QB would have made him a lame duck that everyone knew was out of here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Bruce was never sold on Kirk but paid him handsomely as a rental until he could figure something else out. If he wasn't sold on Kirk, he should have had a better plan, plain and simple. Who knows? Perhaps Bruce is right and that Kirk will end up being nothing special and fizzle out elsewhere. That still doesn't excuse him from how he played this hand that will result in getting nothing in return for their investment. That includes IMO trading him in 2017. The Eagles for example for over a decade have masterfully played the market for QB and got good compensation for QBs they wanted to move. The Redskins likely end up with nothing or close enough to that for Kirk. That to me is the kicker of the most misplayed negotiation this team has ever had. Watch the Eagles get now a first rounder for Foles. While we keep our fingers crossed that we get a late third round pick in 2019 for a QB who is likely about to be the highest paid player in the NFL. People can talk about all the reasons they felt let down and feel that the dude is overrated. Nonetheless, its looking like enough of the rest of the NFL see Kirk as a hot commodity. If they put him on the trade market last year, they'd have likely at least gotten a first round pick. Bruce IMO misplayed the Kirk negotiation for every audience -- the people who wanted Kirk to stay and those who wanted Kirk to leave. I get some people for whatever reason have Bruce's back no matter what. But yeah on that to each their own. I just don't see what the spin is for either audience that this was well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, carex said: yet drafting a QB would have made him a lame duck that everyone knew was out of here not if it was a 4th or 5th round pick, a guy who nobody expects to walk in and start. Kirk 'was their guy' at the time, but that doesn't mean you don't draft any other QBs, or make every QB you have expendable. As soon as we tagged Cousins and had the inclination that he could leave, I'm looking at all my options. If you take a guy in the 4th and he ends up being a decend QB you spin him for other draft picks. The best franchises do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: not if it was a 4th or 5th round pick, a guy who nobody expects to walk in and start. Kirk 'was their guy' at the time, but that doesn't mean you don't draft any other QBs, or make every QB you have expendable. As soon as we tagged Cousins and had the inclination that he could leave, I'm looking at all my options. If you take a guy in the 4th and he ends up being a decend QB you spin him for other draft picks. The best franchises do it. So, there's no doubt that Bruce botched this. But I don't think NOT drafting a late-round QB is part of that reason. What are the odds that a 4th or 5th becomes your long-term solution after Cousins walks? **Yes, I'm aware that Cousins was a 4th round pick** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Bruce was never sold on Kirk but paid him handsomely as a rental until he could figure something else out. If he wasn't sold on Kirk, he should have had a better plan, plain and simple. I'd say Smith was on the radar last year. Once the Chiefs went QB in the first round last year Smith was also on a one year rental. I'm sure we thought we could win and hit the playoffs in 2017. That's why they paid Cousins. Calculated risk. We didn't and the season drifted away. Cousins didn't win them over, rightly or wrongly, and the damage was already done in the relationships. Theres a reason the trade for Smith happened incredibly early into the offseason. He was the plan, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: He was the plan, I suspect. They paid Kirk 24M to be a placeholder? So they could get into a bidding war for Smith? Totally possible, just not the planning of a sharp GM that knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: So, there's no doubt that Bruce botched this. But I don't think NOT drafting a late-round QB is part of that reason. What are the odds that a 4th or 5th becomes your long-term solution after Cousins walks? **Yes, I'm aware that Cousins was a 4th round pick** it's the lack of attention. Who knows if it would have worked? Brett Hundley was a 5th round pick while Aaron Rodgers is the starter. Jacoby Brissett was a 3rd rounder while Tom Brady is the starter. At least be adding pieces at the position. I'd be looking at adding a QB every other year via the draft. They don't have to be world beaters, but having them in the system and pipeline is imperative. We've drafted 1 QB since we drafted Cousins... and that was Sudsy (who nauseatingly enough just won a ring). Hell i dont care, take a flyer on a younger Vet who's been around a little bit, like an I dont know, Case Keenum or Nick Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: it's the lack of attention. Who knows if it would have worked? Brett Hundley was a 5th round pick while Aaron Rodgers is the starter. Jacoby Brissett was a 3rd rounder while Tom Brady is the starter. At least be adding pieces at the position. I'd be looking at adding a QB every other year via the draft. They don't have to be world beaters, but having them in the system and pipeline is imperative. We've drafted 1 QB since we drafted Cousins... and that was Sudsy (who nauseatingly enough just won a ring) OK, so heading into the 2016 season, we spent a late-round pick on a young QB. Granted, before 2017 we let him walk but that shows the "attention" you asked for, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: I'd say Smith was on the radar last year. Once the Chiefs went QB in the first round last year Smith was also on a one year rental. I'm sure we thought we could win and hit the playoffs in 2017. That's why they paid Cousins. Calculated risk. We didn't and the season drifted away. Cousins didn't win them over, rightly or wrongly, and the damage was already done in the relationships. Theres a reason the trade for Smith happened incredibly early into the offseason. He was the plan, I suspect. So you think we paid Cousins $24 mil, did this song and dance, and made him a contract offer AFTER the draft, just to bet that we could sign Smith? 1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: OK, so heading into the 2016 season, we spent a late-round pick on a young QB. Granted, before 2017 we let him walk but that shows the "attention" you asked for, doesn't it? Thats 1. The ONLY one since we drafted Kirk in the 4th of 12'. We signed Colt in 14' to be a backup but never even attempted to bring anyone else in. I guess they like Colt enough, but i would still have liked to see us bringing in some young talent and giving them a shot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 42 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: They paid Kirk 24M to be a placeholder? So they could get into a bidding war for Smith? Totally possible, just not the planning of a sharp GM that knows what he's doing. No, they paid Cousins hoping we'd win and make the playoffs. Things may have changed at that juncture. We didn't. At that stage Cousins was likely done here, which he is, and Smith was the pre-lined up replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: So you think we paid Cousins $24 mil, did this song and dance, and made him a contract offer AFTER the draft, just to bet that we could sign Smith? Thats 1. The ONLY one since we drafted Kirk in the 4th of 12'. We signed Colt in 14' to be a backup but never even attempted to bring anyone else in. I guess they like Colt enough, but i would still have liked to see us bringing in some young talent and giving them a shot... I'm going to make this my last post defending the FO for anything they've done with the Cousins situation but... We added McCoy in 2014 as you mentioned...at that point in time, we had a lot of picks and money tied up in the QB position. Same situation in 2015 around draft time (remember, we thought we had Colt and Kirk as backups in the April, 2015 timeframe as Griffin was still the starter). In 2016 we drafted Sudfeld. So, since we released Griffin, we've added a late-round QB once and he was still on the roster by the time we were drafting again in 2017 (wasn't released until right before this past season). OK, I'm done. Like I said, the team screwed this up from Jump Street, but not drafting more late-round QBs wasn't one of the reasons, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 37 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: So you think we paid Cousins $24 mil, did this song and dance, and made him a contract offer AFTER the draft, just to bet that we could sign Smith? Not at all, see other response to BFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: I'm going to make this my last post defending the FO for anything they've done with the Cousins situation but... We added McCoy in 2014 as you mentioned...at that point in time, we had a lot of picks and money tied up in the QB position. Same situation in 2015 around draft time (remember, we thought we had Colt and Kirk as backups in the April, 2015 timeframe as Griffin was still the starter). In 2016 we drafted Sudfeld. So, since we released Griffin, we've added a late-round QB once and he was still on the roster by the time we were drafting again in 2017 (wasn't released until right before this past season). OK, I'm done. Like I said, the team screwed this up from Jump Street, but not drafting more late-round QBs wasn't one of the reasons, in my opinion. I'm with ya... I just feel like we could done a bit more once the Cousins trains started coming off the rails. You're right about the money with Griffin (again self imposed pain) but it is what it is. We got close to having a potentially disastrous season with all of our cards in the Colt basket, but it is what it is. We're here now with Alex, which I'm good with, so I should probably take it for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: I'm with ya... I just feel like we could done a bit more once the Cousins trains started coming off the rails. You're right about the money with Griffin (again self imposed pain) but it is what it is. We got close to having a potentially disastrous season with all of our cards in the Colt basket, but it is what it is. We're here now with Alex, which I'm good with, so I should probably take it for what it's worth. I just hope we can add a few pieces, stay healthier, and have a positive/exciting season that further cements Gruden and Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: No, they paid Cousins hoping we'd win and make the playoffs. Things may have changed at that juncture. We didn't. At that stage Cousins was likely done here, which he is, and Smith was the pre-lined up replacement. I think they paid Cousins because they had no plan B and were too busy with the dumpster fire that was the firing of Scot. By May they were desperate and upped the ante but the ship had sailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: I just hope we can add a few pieces, stay healthier, and have a positive/exciting season that further cements Gruden and Smith. amen to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: I just hope we can add a few pieces, stay healthier, and have a positive/exciting season that further cements Gruden and Smith. I think we have a chance to have an exciting defense, something we haven't seen in a while. We just 2 simple transactions in the offseason our D line could become a serious force to be reckoned with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: I think we have a chance to have an exciting defense, something we haven't seen in a while. We just 2 simple transactions in the offseason our D line could become a serious force to be reckoned with. Two transactions and health...I think Allen, Ioannadnnaissiidsssnnods, and a rookie NT along with our depth and OLBs could be VERY exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 You get the feeling that this waiting game probably driving Cousins nutz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible_Red40 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 27 minutes ago, HigSkin said: You get the feeling that this waiting game probably driving Cousins nutz! @KirkCousins8 Cooper & I are interested in hearing where the best spot is for us. We have no idea yet. #waiting But God told him to sign a one year deal. I guess he hasn't told him where the best spot for him is yet? What happens if God tells him it's in Washington? Big trouble then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I was just listening to Andy Benoit's take on Alex and he did a tit for tat as to Kirk versus Alex. Benoit was like a God to the Kirk critics after the 2015 season when he called Kirk a system QB who benefits primarily from Jay's scheme -- but just now he was brutal on Alex Smith in his apples to apples comparison to Kirk. I hope he's wrong about Alex. In short, he thinks Alex will be a noticeable downgrade from Kirk and to quote him "it will end badly" for Alex here. Depressing listen. I'd have completely ignored it if it wasn't for Kirk critics bringing up Benoit as recent as weeks back as someone who validates their criticism of him. So the irony of that segment amused me -- albeit I hope he's wrong and I think he is wrong. I'd say judging from that segment I just listened to, Benoit has come around on Kirk. And he's not wild about Alex. So for any critics of Alex (you got a friend in Benoit). I don't consider myself an Alex critic. I like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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