Tax Bill

[LadySkinsFan]

They can spend the money overseas, just like they do now. They are international corporations, why bring the money into the U.S.? They don't ever have too.

 

You don't think that they pay tax lawyers and CPAs to reduce their tax liability wherever the money is? 

 

It sounds like a good story but like everything about the tax code, it's slanted towards corporations and the wealthy.  Just like this tax "reform".

[nonniey]

43 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

They can spend the money overseas, just like they do now. They are international corporations, why bring the money into the U.S.? They don't ever have too.

 

You don't think that they pay tax lawyers and CPAs to reduce their tax liability wherever the money is? 

 

It sounds like a good story but like everything about the tax code, it's slanted towards corporations and the wealthy.  Just like this tax "reform".

The point is that the US capital gains tax is non competitive with just about every other country. It encourages corporations to spend and keep their money overseas.  The 5% one time rule is a fantastic idea  it would suck all that money into the United States and as long as the permanent tax rate is then lowered to a competitive level it should keep it here.

Edited September 30, 2017 by nonniey

[PleaseBlitz]

14 hours ago, Larry said:

 

I have an incredible amount of difficulty believe that "just about all economists" say anything.  

 

And an even bigger problem that they are saying this.  

 

(Now, I have no problem at all believing that there are a great many people making this claim.  And virtually all of them from one political Party.)  

 

But, I will freely admit that I'm not an economist, by any means.  

 

 

Not sure that there is a consensus about what to do with the capital gains tax, but it is an accepted fact that taxing capital gains makes the financial markets much less efficient.  So while, yes, the top 10% pay almost all of it and the top 1% pay most of it, there are very good economic arguments for lowering the rate because the more efficient movement of capital benefits the economy as a whole.   

[LadySkinsFan]

2 hours ago, nonniey said:

The point is that the US capital gains tax is non competitive with just about every other country. It encourages corporations to spend and keep their money overseas.  The 5% one time rule is a fantastic idea  it would suck all that money into the United States and as long as the permanent tax rate is then lowered to a competitive level it should keep it here.

 

My, you're optimistic!  They have had a long time to figure out how to make that money work for them without bringing it back to the U.S.

 

 

[Weganator]

Also, not being able to deduct state taxes basically negates any tax breaks on a high income earner. This doesn't even account for no longer being able to deduct property taxes also. Real estate is currently a big tax shelter for the wealthy since you can deduct mortgage interest too.

 

Top tax bracket for DC is 8.95% at over 350k. If you make 3M a year as income, just the top bracket income tax is almost a 2% income tax increase, making that 3% cut in the top bracket less drastic.

 

.0895 * 2650000 = 237175

 

Federal taxes on that amount since that money would be in top federal bracket is

.25 * 237175 = 59,293.75

 

Divided by 3M income

59293.75 / 3000000 = .01965 rounded

 

So almost 2% of that 3% is taken up just in not being able to negate the top bracket state taxes.

 

Edit: Property Taxes

I have some places that combined their assessment is at just under 600k. The annual property tax on that is about 4k. If they owned a $6M home, that's another roughly 40k you can no longer deduct.

 

Highest tax assessment for a home for sale on Zillow in DC was 2M with 17k in property taxes.

 

40000/3000000 = .0133

 

If you are a really wealthy person living in a blue state with high property values / taxes, this will quickly become not a tax cut.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Weganator

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

My, you're optimistic!  They have had a long time to figure out how to make that money work for them without bringing it back to the U.S.

 

 

Just sound logic if Corporations can make more money in the US they will move it to the US. 

[PleaseBlitz]

 

 

You can only deduct mortgage interest on the first $1 million.

Edited September 30, 2017 by PleaseBlitz

[LD0506]

[Fergasun]

Aside from dismantling Obamacare, tax cuts for the rich and to weaken the govt financially are the item 1a on GOP agenda.

 

There was an article online about how the "Koch Donor Network" was predicting dire results for the GOP if this wasnt done.  How blatent do you have to be about this sellout of our democracy by the GOP since 2010 (tea party).

 

The House basically passed a budgrt resolution with these tax cuts cuts that makes Federal employees pay more for their retirements and health care (they have been doing this for awhile).  These are the "offsets" for tax cuts for the rich.

 

Federal employees are the definition of middle class workers..... GOP is very clear in this regard.  Screw these middle class workers who make the government operate.  And the deficits created would only add more risk to Fed employees.

 

 

 

 

 

[LadySkinsFan]

Middle class person looked at the tax bill items, and figured out they will pay more, of course.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/letters/ct-letters-trump-tax-plan-20171013-story.html?ref=yfp

 

[PleaseBlitz]

17 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Middle class person looked at the tax bill items, and figured out they will pay more, of course.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/letters/ct-letters-trump-tax-plan-20171013-story.html?ref=yfp

 

 

The last sentence of that person's letter could be the name of a book on the Trump era.  "Someone is blowing smoke and I don’t like where it is going."

[Fergasun]

Treasury Secretary: Pass a Tax Bill or Markets Will Tank

Quote

The Treasury secretary, in the first episode of the “POLITICO Money” podcast, said Wall Street’s big runup following the election of President Donald Trump is largely based on expectations of Congress passing a major tax-relief bill, and failure to do so could have significant consequences. The Dow is now up about 25 percent since the election, a fact Trump tweets about frequently.  “There is no question that the rally in the stock market has baked into it reasonably high expectations of us getting tax cuts and tax reform done,” Mnuchin said in the interview. “To the extent we get the tax deal done, the stock market will go up higher. But there’s no question in my mind that if we don’t get it done you’re going to see a reversal of a significant amount of these gains.”

 

 

I have a message for you Mr. Secretary -- "Dear Rich ****-head, Middle Class America doesn't have the money to invest in stocks the way that we used to.... so we don't care if you and your paper-rich compadres get paper-poorer." 

 

Gosh, this is their message on tax reform now? 

"Middle class American has to take it in the pants via taxes, or the stocks are gonna get it!"

 

It's flipping obvious ... Congress wants taxes to be revenue neutral -- just listen to Paul Ryan talking about "we need to expand the tax base".  "Expand the tax base" is code for "make middle class people pay more so we can give those savings to the rich".

 

The fact that my fellow citizens don't have the same visceral reaction to all the BS that we are being fed.... makes me sad.  Then again, like other Americans for the past 30 years, we've had to work harder just to get the same thing our parents had.  But dropping a bigger tax bill on us is going to "make America great again..." yeah ... turns out that slogan only applies to the millionaires. 

 

I get it - Democrats aren't honest either, have similar policy messaging blind-spots, etc... but the way the tax bill is being fed to the public is a disgrace and worthy of more debate.  But it doesn't matter, the GOP has the reins of power and they must pass their agenda. 

 

 

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

That's all Republicans can do, give themselves and their cronies big tax cuts, screw the rest of us, and What Deficit?! 

 

[LD0506]

[Fergasun]

Read that now they want go reduce 401(k) cap from 18k to 2.4k..''

[LadySkinsFan]

I saw that the Senate eliminated state and local tax deductions.

 

This is surprising, considering that Blue state Republican candidates and incumbents will have a lot to answer for with this one.

Edited October 22, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[Burgold]

The biggest question for the taxpayer is what do you gain via the tax breaks and what do you lose. If you lose 100,000 bucks worth of educational service for your children in exchange for 1,500 bucks in your pocket is that a good trade off? If gain $1500 in cash, but gain 700,000 tons of lead or other chemical pollutants in your drinking water is that a good trade off?

 

These tax benefits will surely come at the expense of the EPA, Education, Safety Net programs, etc. If others step in to fill the gap, it may be fine. Mind you, they are giving you a tax cut and decreasing the incentive for charitable giving. Will the charities be equally funded, less funded, or find themselves better funded if we have a bit more money lining our pockets? 

 

Trickle down never worked from the upper class to the middle class or lower class. Will it work better for charitable giving than it did for employment or salary increases?

[nonniey]

13 hours ago, Burgold said:

The biggest question for the taxpayer is what do you gain via the tax breaks and what do you lose. If you lose 100,000 bucks worth of educational service for your children in exchange for 1,500 bucks in your pocket is that a good trade off? If gain $1500 in cash, but gain 700,000 tons of lead or other chemical pollutants in your drinking water is that a good trade off?

 

These tax benefits will surely come at the expense of the EPA, Education, Safety Net programs, etc. If others step in to fill the gap, it may be fine. Mind you, they are giving you a tax cut and decreasing the incentive for charitable giving. Will the charities be equally funded, less funded, or find themselves better funded if we have a bit more money lining our pockets? 

 

Trickle down never worked from the upper class to the middle class or lower class. Will it work better for charitable giving than it did for employment or salary increases?

This is the first I've heard that they plan to change the charitable deduction. Is that accurate (I may have missed it)?

Edited October 23, 2017 by nonniey

[PleaseBlitz]

On 10/19/2017 at 4:20 PM, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

In related news:  Cats and dogs seen playing together.  

[The Evil Genius]

On 10/22/2017 at 7:32 AM, LadySkinsFan said:

I saw that the Senate eliminated state and local tax deductions.

 

This is surprising, considering that Blue state Republican candidates and incumbents will have a lot to answer for with this one.

 

It's nothing but a giant **** you to blue states like California and New York.

 

To make matters worse. The repeal didn't effect corporations. Businesses can still claim it under this plan. Individuals cannot. How ****ing stupid is that?

Edited October 23, 2017 by The Evil Genius

[LadySkinsFan]

I haven't trusted Republicans to do right by We the People since Nixon. They are all about giving corporations and the wealthy all the tax breaks and redistribution of wealth upwards ever since. 

 

I wish Congress would pass the draft, maybe then Congress would take their power to declare war away from Trump. 

 

All his supporters' kids will be drafted. Then maybe we can get the Republicans out of control in their efforts to **** with actual humans.

[The Evil Genius]

https://twitter.com/franklinleonard/status/922254673175818240

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by The Evil Genius

[nonniey]

Caught a segment of I believe Amy Goodman's show while driving today and the guy on the show was reflecting the position of some in this forum in regard to the Corporate tax rate. In referencing the 1 year 5% rate proposal for returning money to the US from overseas -  he said it would be better to get nothing (Currently happening) than allow the Corporations "to avoid" the 1.2 Trillion tax at the current rate.

 

Absolutely mind boggling to me.

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

Still too high.

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/922970987116756993