Tax Bill

[PleaseBlitz]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

@PleaseBlitz your graphic doesn't align with the one on the first page

 

not sure which one is right... you have the 230-250k group going up a level, front page has them going down a level.

 

Read my post again please. It clearly says "Here is a visualization of that concept, but it is based on his plan during the campaign so it probably doesn't line up with this plan, just a visualization of the concept. "

[tshile]

You caught me slippin

 

Sorry

[PleaseBlitz]

20 minutes ago, tshile said:

You caught me slippin

 

Sorry

 

All good. 

[PleaseBlitz]

 

[visionary]

 

[JCB]

Tax Policy Center has weighed in:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/29/gop-tax-plan-would-provide-major-gains-for-richest-1-percent-and-uneven-benefits-for-the-middle-class-report-says/

[FanboyOf91]

Quote

But the analysis released Friday found that, over time, the plan would increase the tax burden on about 28 percent of the middle-class workers Trump has pledged to help.

"Someone needs to honestly explain to working-class households why they'd want to get anywhere near this thing," said Jared Bernstein, a former chief economist to Vice President Joe Biden.

Much about the proposed tax plan has yet to be finalized, including the income cutoffs for three new tax brackets that will replace the current seven marginal rates. The nine-page "framework" released Wednesday also calls for eliminating many popular tax deductions, but it stopped short of spelling out exactly which ones would be repealed.

As a result, the Tax Policy Center analysis made a series of assumptions about the impact of the provisions that have not been spelled out. The analysis also did not take into account any future economic impact, a process known as "dynamic scoring," that GOP proponents say will generate higher revenues and reduce the impact on the federal deficit.

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by FanboyOf91

[LadySkinsFan]

Dynamic scoring = smoke and mirrors signifying nothing.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Dynamic scoring = smoke and mirrors signifying nothing.

 

I agree in this case.

 

I actually think that dynamic scoring could be useful when it is used correctly and conservative/realistic assumptions are used.  In this case whoever is doing the dynamic scoring (Globalist Gary) will just use whatever assumptions they need to get to the result they want.  Which = smoke and mirrors signifying nothing, as LSF correctly states.

[NoCalMike]

Why haven't people learned this pattern yet when it comes to trickle down economics.  "Insert politician here" says we need to rewrite the tax code, but is short on details. Goes on a tour to talk to the people about the middle class's burden for paying taxes in order to rally support.  Unveils tax plan. Within a day or so actual analysis done on said tax plan shows the biggest cuts and benefits of said tax plan go to the Top 1% while everyone else gets something menial that in the long run does more damage than good.  #MAGA

Edited September 29, 2017 by NoCalMike

[steve09ru]

Even from the tax bracket standpoint - if the 2 highest segments of the bracket stayed the same, the top would have still reaped the most benefits because they make more money.  On the other hand, itemized cuts aren't finalized from what I have seen so it's hard to say who gets what deductions. 

 

 

But either way, the only way you would see anyone over that 423k & 433k is if they have taxes hiked up around 45% (which let's be honest, that's ridiculous to tax anyone that high).

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[PleaseBlitz]

The biggest giveaways to the ultrarich have nothing to do with the brackets on income.  It's the elimination of the Alternative Minimum Tax and the Estate Tax.  

[Larry]

16 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

The biggest giveaways to the ultrarich have nothing to do with the brackets on income.  It's the elimination of the Alternative Minimum Tax and the Estate Tax.  

 

Suspect that Capital Gains tax is bigger.  But yep, they're all three on the list.  

 

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, Larry said:

 

Suspect that Capital Gains tax is bigger.  But yep, they're all three on the list.  

 

 

That's definitely true, but I thought that cap gains was just staying the same. No?

[LadySkinsFan]

[nonniey]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

 

Suspect that Capital Gains tax is bigger.  But yep, they're all three on the list.  

 

Maybe but the Capital Gains tax is the one thing just about all economists say needs to be cut. We're about the highest in the world right now and it is hurting the US. Another tax cut that will be claimed is a massive give away is the one time reduction to 5% of corporate foreign earned income coming back to the United States.  Thing is we're getting nothing from it now because Corporations leave it overseas due to the high tax on it now (35%?). The 5% rate (Which is significantly lower than the foreign tax rates) almost ensures almost all that money will be brought into the US. 

[JSSkinz]

Until they disclose which itemizations are being eliminated it's impossible to understand if this is better, the same, or worse.

[Larry]

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

Maybe but the Capital Gains tax is the one thing just about all economists say needs to be cut. 

 

I have an incredible amount of difficulty believe that "just about all economists" say anything.  

 

And an even bigger problem that they are saying this.  

 

(Now, I have no problem at all believing that there are a great many people making this claim.  And virtually all of them from one political Party.)  

 

But, I will freely admit that I'm not an economist, by any means.  

 

[LadySkinsFan]

These corporations aren't going to bring money back into the U.S. regardless of the tax rate. 

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

I have an incredible amount of difficulty believe that "just about all economists" say anything.  

 

And an even bigger problem that they are saying this.  

 

(Now, I have no problem at all believing that there are a great many people making this claim.  And virtually all of them from one political Party.)  

 

But, I will freely admit that I'm not an economist, by any means.  

 

Read this. http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/CapitalGainsTaxes.html

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

These corporations aren't going to bring money back into the U.S. regardless of the tax rate. 

So you are saying Corporations would rather make less money overseas than in the United States if given a choice? (Their choice now is to make more by keeping cash overseas or make less by bringing it to the United States)

Edited September 30, 2017 by nonniey

[Springfield]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

These corporations aren't going to bring money back into the U.S. regardless of the tax rate. 

 

They will probably bring money back.  Just not Jobs.

[Fergasun]

Someone explain this logic to me. 

 

I am a wealthy capitalist owener of Fergasun Inc.  I could invest $50M in it today, and return $100M over the next 10 years. But, I don't want to... and the reason is taxes.  So I need a tax code that will return $120M over the next 10 years.  

 

Is that the logic the GOP is selling me? 

[Weganator]

17 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Someone explain this logic to me. 

 

I am a wealthy capitalist owener of Fergasun Inc.  I could invest $50M in it today, and return $100M over the next 10 years. But, I don't want to... and the reason is taxes.  So I need a tax code that will return $120M over the next 10 years.  

 

Is that the logic the GOP is selling me? 

Basically. You can choose not to buy it, but doubling your money over 10 years is only like 7% a year.

 

So compared to 7% earnings taxed at long term gains (roughly S&P 500 index), the risk of starting a business at those numbers isn't worth it.

 

If you aren't making 12-20% a year as a business owner, the 15.3% self employment tax plus active effort of running the business discourages entrepreneurship is a waste of time compared to passive investments and rent seeking.

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, Fergasun said:

Someone explain this logic to me. 

 

I am a wealthy capitalist owener of Fergasun Inc.  I could invest $50M in it today, and return $100M over the next 10 years. But, I don't want to... and the reason is taxes.  So I need a tax code that will return $120M over the next 10 years.  

 

Is that the logic the GOP is selling me? 

Read this. http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/CapitalGainsTaxes.html