2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[fordranger76]

Gonna leave this here since I have seen that production does not matter now and apparently getting thrown to the side like a rag doll now constitutes gap clogging.

 

Yes this is Nelson. That guard that some say is the best player in the draft. Yeah that one.

The knock on this guy is he isnt quick. He is slow. That's all the scout talk now. They do not bother to look at his hands and what he does with them. We can post positive plays all day long back and forth and it wont matter because we all have our favorites. However for those that say production does not matter is just crazy talk. Small sample size I know vs multiple opponents rather than just one good game. I will take someone with production and a backfield hazard any day of the week.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think it's a mis-evaluation though.  Maybe his brilliance at the college level won't translate that well to the NFL.  But this kid was arguably the best defensive player in the country this year.  He was the best player on a ridiculously good defense and a champion.  And he was a key player on another championship team.  He's got some honey badger in him and I think he can't beat the projections.

 

As a player he can do it all, it seems like his best projection is slot CB but could probably ultimately play FS.  He covers, great against the run, excellent blitzer, ball hawk (except for last season as for INTs).

 

He's been my top hope at 13 for awhile.  For me its Fitzpatrick, James then Guice.   My fear as for Fitzpatrick is Miami at 11.  Saban and Gase are close. 

 

https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/minkah-fitzpatrick-alabama-player-regularly-makes-nick-saban-smile

If Nick Saban is the most detail-oriented person in college football, then Fitzpatrick, his junior defensive back, might just be the second most. It’s why Fitzpatrick is the only player on the Crimson Tide whose play routinely puts a smile on the coach’s face.

“He’s the standard of the program,” says junior running back Damien Harris

[Going Commando]

18 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 I just think he is inconsistent based on the film I have watched of him, and like I said, I have never watched a NT projected in the first round who has gotten put on skates as often as I've seen from him.

 

Payne has a lot better film than some of the past first round NTs like Shelton and Phil Taylor and Kenny Clark and Malcolm Brown and Sylvester Williams and Corey Liueget.  Better than Dontari Poe's was too.  And Vernon Butler's film was him showing out against much lesser competition.  Payne is clean.  I think you're going to find that you won't see many who are cleaner come along.  It's a big reason why he's being graded so high despite not being that big and not having big sack and TFL numbers.  During that NC game, there were maybe three plays where the double worked and they moved him.  If he loses three plays and wins 14 is that really inconsistent?  That's a dominant game IMO, especially against a truly great running team like Georgia.  Not to mention he was good against the pass that game too.

[Est.1974]

Clearly isn't that easy to do,  I'm sticking with the notion trading back from #13 and then later trading up from #44 puts us in a better position. Ending up with a couple of picks between say 18 and 30.

 

 

[CurseReversed]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

You're really arguing for Vea over Payne because of his contact balance and ability to anchor against doubles even though he doesn't see half as many doubles as Payne and he spends far more time on his back?  Vea is a strong run defender and powerful anchor but he does not have Payne's elite contact balance and his hands aren't as good.  He's also not as long despite being several inches taller.  And I think it's pretty obvious that Payne is a lot more explosive off the line and he plays harder.  He gives it everything on every snap and Vea dogs it a lot and he's consistently slow out of his stance.  I can accept an argument that Vea is a better prospect than Payne based on potential due to his measurables, but when you sit down and watch them side by side, it's clear he's just not as good as Payne right now.  Payne's significantly younger too.

Those were excellent, thanks for posting.

This is just a small sample but the consistency with his technique is impressive.  He anchors against the blocker(s), gets his arms extended and makes a play on the ball carrier consistently.   

His agility and athleticism after contact is his best attribute IMO.   You need someone who does not just get penetration, but someone who can be engaged with a blocker and still make athletic adjustments on the ball.  

 

This defense could not make those tackles for their life last year.  Athletic QB's and RB's were running circles around them.  It looked like they might be in position but whiffed.    This is why I was not so big on Vea at first.  It might be true that he has the same or more pass rushing potential as Payne, but given there makeup, its hard to argue that Payne is not going to be better at containing faster guys in the backfield, especially athletic qb's like wentz and dak who have abused us in the past.  

 

 

 

[CurseReversed]

37 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

The knock on this guy is he isnt quick. He is slow. That's all the scout talk now. They do not bother to look at his hands and what he does with them. We can post positive plays all day long back and forth and it wont matter because we all have our favorites. However for those that say production does not matter is just crazy talk. Small sample size I know vs multiple opponents rather than just one good game. I will take someone with production and a backfield hazard any day of the week.

He looks really impressive.   A lot better then Settle IMO.    If this was the consolation prize of skipping Vea or Payne and getting Fitz or Guice instead it would sure make me feel a lot better about the scenario.  I still think Payne is better because of the intangibles i noted before, but its close. 

 

How likely is he to make it to 44?

 

Honestly, I would not mind if they took them both

 

I just want to stock these trenches until we DESTROY people.  This last season was too much to take.   Its got to start up front from now on and I don't care how much they invest to do it. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Daniel Jeremiah, fresh mock draft he just put out.   I'd be cool with Guice at 13 like he did in his mock. 

 

Judging by the beat guys covering the team this pick would be greeted with major scorn by them.  It's funny they almost all say taking a RB is a luxury like if you are buying dinner, the RB represents the dinner rolls but at the same time some of these same guys freak out right before the Redskins face big time RBs like Kamara, etc during the season.   Wouldn't it be nice to have a RB that the opponents freak out about for a change?   Real balance on offense -- ball control -- resting the defense.  

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000926808/article/jeremiah-mock-draft-30-browns-jets-broncos-bills-pick-qbs?campaign=tw-cf-sf187181560-sf187181560&sf187181560=1

"This is a little early for Guice to be picked, but the Redskins lack a dynamic presence at RB and he would be a perfect fit in this offense."

 

 

Vea goes #11. Payne falls to the 2nd round in his mock.

[HTTRDynasty]

29 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

During that NC game, there were maybe three plays where the double worked and they moved him.  If he loses three plays and wins 14 is that really inconsistent?  That's a dominant game IMO, especially against a truly great running team like Georgia.  Not to mention he was good against the pass that game too.

 

Yes, he was definitely dominant in the NC game.  Everyone can agree on that.  If he played like that every game, or even in just several games this past season, I'm sure he would have been PFF's #1 ranked interior run defender instead of #13.  He would be a top 10 pick.  But what other games did he look even close to that level this past season?  I really think there is an insane amount of recency bias going on when it comes to this prospect.  Constantly pointing to his outlier game as proof is not going to convince me to overlook all the other games I've seen from him.  Not to say he was a bad player in those other games, just saying that I didn't see him consistently making an impact and winning his match-ups like I did in the NC game.

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Daniel Jeremiah, fresh mock draft he just put out.   I'd be cool with Guice at 13 like he did in his mock. 

 

Judging by the beat guys covering the team this pick would be greeted with major scorn by them.  It's funny they almost all say taking a RB is a luxury like if you are buying dinner, the RB represents the dinner rolls but at the same time some of these same guys freak out right before the Redskins face big time RBs like Kamara, etc during the season.   Wouldn't it be nice to have a RB that the opponents freak out about for a change?   Real balance on offense -- ball control -- resting the defense.  

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000926808/article/jeremiah-mock-draft-30-browns-jets-broncos-bills-pick-qbs?campaign=tw-cf-sf187181560-sf187181560&sf187181560=1

"This is a little early for Guice to be picked, but the Redskins lack a dynamic presence at RB and he would be a perfect fit in this offense."

 

 

Vea goes #11. Payne falls to the 2nd round in his mock.

 

The way that board fell, I think we'd sprint to the podium to select James.  And hope someone keeps Swearinger off Twitter for the rest of the night.

[fordranger76]

25 minutes ago, CurseReversed said:

He looks really impressive.   A lot better then Settle IMO.    If this was the consolation prize of skipping Vea or Payne and getting Fitz or Guice instead it would sure make me feel a lot better about the scenario.  I still think Payne is better because of the intangibles i noted before, but its close. 

 

How likely is he to make it to 44?

 

Honestly, I would not mind if they took them both

 

I just want to stock these trenches until we DESTROY people.  This last season was too much to take.   Its got to start up front from now on and I don't care how much they invest to do it. 

 

 

Hard to say really. A lot of mocks have him going early second round but some are calling for late first. I have a feeling he could be one of those trade into the back of the first round to nab him type of guys but really I have no clue. Can't see him lasting too far into the second though.

[dcdiscokid]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Daniel Jeremiah, fresh mock draft he just put out.   I'd be cool with Guice at 13 like he did in his mock. 

 

I saw that mock and thought to myself i'd be pretty pissed with this pick. I just think you can have a blue chip player at a hard to fill position at pick 13, especially with all the qb's going. It just screams reach to me... But it's not m choice or do I begin to think I have the football acumen that several of you on this page have.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

The way that board fell, I think we'd sprint to the podium to select James.  And hope someone keeps Swearinger off Twitter for the rest of the night.

 

Yeah I love James.  With Swearinger's cap number rising next year, I think it might be the end of him in 2019 here.    If they sign James-coupled with signing Hankins in FA that could be some sick run stopping ability. 

[fordranger76]

10 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yes, he was definitely dominant in the NC game.  Everyone can agree on that.  If he played like that every game, or even in just several games this past season, I'm sure he would have been PFF's #1 ranked interior run defender instead of #13.  He would be a top 10 pick.  But what other games did he look even close to that level this past season?  I really think there is an insane amount of recency bias going on when it comes to this prospect.  Constantly pointing to his outlier game as proof is not going to convince me to overlook all the other games I've seen from him.  Not to say he was a bad player in those other games, just saying that I didn't see him consistently making an impact and winning his match-ups like I did in the NC game.

I am with you here on the bias. I get everyone has a favorite in the draft but the love Payne is getting is confusing to me to no end. I mean heck I think DJ Moore is the top receiver in the draft and fully believe that Kerryon Johnson is the back to nab but I am not advocating a pick at 13 for either one of them. Taking Payne with his limited showing on multiple game films is astonishing to me. But everyone has a right to opinion I am just having a harder time understanding this one more than most.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, dcdiscokid said:

I saw that mock and thought to myself i'd be pretty pissed with this pick. I just think you can have a blue chip player at a hard to fill position at pick 13, especially with all the qb's going. It just screams reach to me... But it's not m choice or do I begin to think I have the football acumen that several of you on this page have.

 

IMO depends on which version of Guice is the real one, if its 2016, then IMO its not a reach.  That version IMO would be the best RB we've had since I don't know when -- I think that version is better than Clinton Portis.  Speaking of which, Portis said he'd take Guice at 13.

[dcdiscokid]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

IMO depends on which version of Guice is the real one, if its 2016, then IMO its not a reach.  That version IMO would be the best RB we've had since I don't know when -- I think that version is better than Clinton Portis.  Speaking of which, Portis said he'd take Guice at 13.

Yes I suppose if we are sure we are getting the 2016 version of him I'd be ok with it, but I can't help but think that's a big IF.  In this mock with the way things fell I'd just rather take James who could be the next ST imo. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, dcdiscokid said:

Yes I suppose if we are sure we are getting the 2016 version of him I'd be ok with it, but I can't help but think that's a big IF.  In this mock with the way things fell I'd just rather take James who could be the next ST imo. 

 

I wouldn't argue against James.  To me my favs in this order are Fitzpatrick, James, Guice.  According to the LSU coaches, Guice was banged up last year but he's back to 2016 form now.  I guess we'd have to trust the FO to gauge that for themselves. 

[The Consigliere]

17 minutes ago, dcdiscokid said:

I saw that mock and thought to myself i'd be pretty pissed with this pick. I just think you can have a blue chip player at a hard to fill position at pick 13, especially with all the qb's going. It just screams reach to me... But it's not m choice or do I begin to think I have the football acumen that several of you on this page have.

Derwin James should be the pick in that scenario. He could end up being the best defensive player in the draft, and has a quite reasonable chance to be a top 3 defensive talent in the draft. You don't pass on that for Guice. That would make no sense at all, especially in a reasonably deep RB class. 

[skins2victory]

@fordranger76 I've been eyeing Harrison Phillips as a potential great 2nd round pick for us as well. Hopefully he is on the radar!

 

- Does anyone know if the Skins have meet with him for any private workouts??

[dcdiscokid]

6 minutes ago, skins2victory said:

@fordranger76 I've been eyeing Harrison Phillips as a potential great 2nd round pick for us as well. Hopefully he is on the radar!

 

- Does anyone know if the Skins have meet with him for any private workouts??

According to Walter Football no at least not yet.

 

•  Harrison Phillips, DT/3-4DE/NT, Stanford
• 49ers (SR)
• Eagles (SR)
• Lions (SR)
• Vikings (SR)

 

Here is a list of everyone we have met with in some capacity.

 

 Washington Redskins

• Quin Blanding^, S, Virginia (SR, PRI)
• Bryce Bobo, WR, Colorado (EW)
• Tony Brown, CB, Alabama (PRO)
• Tyler Conklin, TE, Central Michigan (SR)
• Tyrell Crosby, OT, Oregon (SR%)
• Leighton Vander Esch, ILB, Boise State (PRI)
• Rashard Fant, CB, Indiana (WOR)
• Folorunso Fatukasi, DT/3-4DE, Connecticut (EW)
• Riley Ferguson, QB, Memphis (COM)
• Daurice Fountain, WR, Northern Iowa (PRI)
• Derrius Guice^, RB, LSU (PRO, WOR, PRI)
• Desmond Harrison, OT, West Georgia (PRI)
• Connor Hilland, G, William & Mary (EW)
• Jamarco Jones, OT, Ohio State (COM)
• Ronald Jones II^, RB, USC (COM, PRI)
• Nick Keizer, TE, Grand Valley State (PRO)
• Kameron Kelly, CB, San Diego State (SR)
• Arden Key, DE/3-4OLB, LSU (PRI)
• Micah Kiser, ILB, Virginia (LOC)
• Mike Love^, DE/3-4OLB, South Florida (PRO, PRI)
• Cole Madison^, OT, Washington State (SR%, PRI)
• Jordan Martin, S, Syracuse (EW)
• Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma (COM)
• Anthony Miller, WR, Memphis (PRI)
• D.J. Moore, WR, Maryland (COM)
• Ryan Nall, FB, Oregon State (COM)
• Dorian O'Daniel, ILB, Clemson (PRO)
• Chukwuma Okorafor, OT, Western Michigan (PRI)
• Da'Ron Payne, DT/NT, Alabama (PRI)
• Rashaad Penny, RB, San Diego State (SR)
• Billy Price^, G/C, Ohio State (COM, PRI)
• Malik Reaves, CB, Villanova (EW)
• Cam Sergine, TE, Wake Forest (LOC)
• Tim Settle, DT/NT, Virginia Tech (LOC)
• Braden Smith, G, Auburn (PRI)
• Kentavius Street, DE, N.C. State (EW)
• Josh Sweat, DE/3-4OLB, Florida State (PRI)
• Wyatt Teller, G, Virginia Tech (LOC)
• Matthew Thomas, ILB, Florida State (EW)
• Robert Torgerson, DT, Southern Utah (PRO)
• Vita Vea, DT/3-4DE/NT, Washington (PRI)
• Akrum Wadley, RB, Iowa (SR%)
• Cedric Wilson, WR, Boise State (SR)
• Deon Yelder, WR, Western Kentucky (PRO)

[skins2victory]

^^ Disappointed to not see Frank Ragnow on that list as well.

[dcdiscokid]

3 minutes ago, skins2victory said:

^^ Disappointed to not see Frank Ragnow on that list as well.

I've been trying to find it, but seems to me I remember not meeting with several players we drafted over the last few years.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Boy trading from 13 to 17-20 and adding a 3rd and going Guice - Settle/Phillips - Ragnow would be magic 

[skins2victory]

4 minutes ago, dcdiscokid said:

I've been trying to find it, but seems to me I remember not meeting with several players we drafted over the last few years.

Yes, this is very true. Seems like several players after being drafted recently, when asked in interviews if the Redskins were on there radar said that they had no idea that the Skins were interested in them, and that they were surprised when drafted by the team.

[Koolblue13]

I'm still hopeful to get both the Bama boys. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, CurseReversed said:

His agility and athleticism after contact is his best attribute IMO.   You need someone who does not just get penetration, but someone who can be engaged with a blocker and still make athletic adjustments on the ball.  

 

Agreed.  His contact balance and body control are awesome.  Top tier.  His body control is almost as good as Allen's and Allen is smaller.  Payne's hands are really good too.  That punch is jarring and he can stack and shed blocks to make plays on the runner like you said, all while taking contact from the shoulder by the second blocker.  True sand in his pants.  At 300 pounds so he can play a ton of snaps through the fourth quarter.  Like I've been saying, he's clean.  And only 20 years old, so he's going to get even stronger.

[skins2victory]

29 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Boy trading from 13 to 17-20 and adding a 3rd and going Guice - Settle/Phillips - Ragnow would be magic 

I agree, that would be magic! Just did a mock trying to grab these players at the top. Even though it didn't grade out well I like it anyway!

 

Your score is: 21086 (GRADE: B+) 

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 25 (TENN):  Guice, Derrius, RB, LSU (B+)
Round 2 Pick 12:  Phillips, Harrison, DT, Stanford (A-)
Round 2 Pick 15 (ARI):  Hand, DaShawn, DE, Alabama (B+)
Round 3 Pick 1 (BUF):  Ragnow, Frank, C/OG, Arkansas (B+)
Round 4 Pick 34 (ARI):  Stewart, MJ, CB, North Carolina (A+)
Round 5 Pick 5:  White, Kyzir, SS, West Virginia (A+)
Round 6 Pick 2 (LAR):  Conklin, Tyler, TE, Central Michigan (A+)
Round 6 Pick 14:  Ateman, Marcell, WR, Oklahoma State (A+)
Round 6 Pick 21 (LAR):  ODaniel, Dorian, OLB, Clemson (A)
Round 7 Pick 13:  Bellamy, Davin, OLB, Georgia (A+)
Round 7 Pick 23:  Wallace, Levi, CB, Alabama (A)

Your Future Picks: 
2019 Round 1 Pick
2020 Round 1 Pick