Are you comfortable with our ties to Russia?

[twa]

feel free not to answer

[Elessar78]

6 hours ago, wolfsire said:

ok. It's real. If it makes you feel better. Don't you think we need a world power to help us keep a level of sanity in the east?

Russia has nukes but they are not or ever have been an economic world power. Their economy is about the size of Italy's. 

 

Our sanctions have them all but exhausted their cash reserves. This is the main reason they wanted Trump in the WH-they needed a friendly administration that would lift sanctions.

 

lets not forget why the sanctions are there in the first place. They invaded a sovereign country for no apparent reason. They shot down a passenger plane for no reason. They have no history with the rule of law or human rights.

 

NATO are our allies because we share common values when it comes to laws, human rights, political freedom, market economies. Russia does not.

[daveakl]

2 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

lets not forget why the sanctions are there in the first place. They invaded a sovereign country for no apparent reason. They shot down a passenger plane for no reason. They have no history with the rule of law or human rights.

 

So much truth in this statement. 

 

We could cozy up to the rest of Europe, India, and the entire pacific region. 

 

But instead let's do Russia, Syria, and Saudia Arabia. 

[Cooked Crack]

Don't get this administration's stance on Russia. They are over here arming the Taliban and they interfered in our elections. We shouldn't be out here trying to reward them. As long as Putin is leader always look at anything they are doing with the side eye.

[AsburySkinsFan]

2 hours ago, twa said:

I'm curious....did ya'll hold the same Russian view when Hillary was hugging their nuts under Obama's direction?

 

Russia hasn't changed since then.

Or when Bush looked longingly into Putin's eyes and saw his soul? 

 

It's one thing to try and reset relationships, it's another to get on your knees to service Putin after he ordered ATTACKS on our country! That YOU would not see that clearly is stunning.

[Elessar78]

6 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Or when Bush looked longingly into Putin's eyes and saw his soul? 

 

It's one thing to try and reset relationships, it's another to get on your knees to service Putin after he ordered ATTACKS on our country! That YOU would not see that clearly is stunning.

He's GOP, are you really surprised they can do amazing feats of perspective gymnastics?

 

funny how all these wannabe Reagan disciples are all about cozying up with Russia and a former KGB agent. 

 

As usual, they willingly ignore the blatant contradictions in their positions. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

22 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

He's GOP, are you really surprised they can do amazing feats of perspective gymnastics?

 

funny how all these wannabe Reagan disciples are all about cozying up with Russia and a former KGB agent. 

 

As usual, they willingly ignore the blatant contradictions in their positions. 

I think the Clintons and Obamas damaged them somehow. It's like they have this new political tourettes where every time they hear a crticism of a current GOP politician they randomly start screaming out CLINTON!! OBAMA!! 

What's good is that at least for now they should be able to get a partial disability check, and since most of them are in red states that draw the most off the government for such things anyhow they should be fine.

[Bang]

8 hours ago, wolfsire said:

That's purely speculation. My point has to do with all the unrest in certain areas of the world. North Korea. China building air-strips in the South China Sea. etc

 

Purely speculative.. lol.

As someone else said, when every single intelligence agency in this country, charged with protiecting this country from foreign espionage and manipulation, says under oath that they 100% interfered, it is not speculation.

 

Until proven otherwise, I'm going on thew assumption that you are a Russian agent, because only a Russian agent and a hardore Trumpster believes the opposite of what 100% of our intel community knows, based solely on the word of a proven liar, and the professions of innocence from a former KGB spy, strongman leader of a criminal nation, and murderer.

 

 

????????????? ? ??????????????? ???????? ?????? ????????????? ????????? ???????????? ?????, ?????????? ? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????.
???????, ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????????????? ??? ?????????? ????????.

 

~Bang

[AsburySkinsFan]

2 minutes ago, Bang said:

 

Purely speculative.. lol.

As someone else said, when every single intelligence agency in this country, charged with protiecting this country from foreign espionage and manipulation, says that they 100% interfered, it is not speculation.

 

Until proven otherwise, I'm going on thew assumption that you are a Russian agent, because only a Russian agent and a hardore Trumpster believes the opposite of what 100% of our intel community knows, based solely on the word of a proven liar, and the professions of innocence from a former KGB spy, strongman leader of a criminal nation, and murderer.

 

 

????????????? ? ??????????????? ? ????????? ??????????? ????????????? ? ????????? ?????????? ????, ??? ?????????? ???? ??????? ? ?????? ???? ??????, - ??? ??????????? ??????????? ?????????? ??? ?????????.

 

? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????.

 

~Bang

??? ?????? ? ????? ????????

[skinsmarydu]

8 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Helloooooo..... They ATTACKED US!!!

OK, hold the door...Rachael constantly says that, "attacked"...and as much as I love her, and want to be her, or work for her, whatever...they didn't.  They used Wikileaks to **** with our election process, and in my opinion were successful, but that's not an attack...it's a HACK...let's use words in proper context.  No one has successfully attacked us since 9/11.  (**** them too, btw.)

 

But hell to the no...Russia has no business in our business.  Putin is a murderer, and he believes he controls "subjects", just as the Czars before him. 

[Gamebreaker]

40 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

OK, hold the door...Rachael constantly says that, "attacked"...and as much as I love her, and want to be her, or work for her, whatever...they didn't.  They used Wikileaks to **** with our election process, and in my opinion were successful, but that's not an attack...it's a HACK...let's use words in proper context.  No one has successfully attacked us since 9/11.  (**** them too, btw.)

 

But hell to the no...Russia has no business in our business.  Putin is a murderer, and he believes he controls "subjects", just as the Czars before him. 

 

I have to disagree, Mary. Not a physical or military attack. But cyber attacks are still attacks. You could shut down a nation through cyber attacks if it isn't properly defended and you know where to strike. 

 

The Russians hacked the information from the DNC, which is illegal in our country. Wikileaks was just the tool used to broadcast it and pretend like they had nothing to do with it. 

[skinsmarydu]

I can roll with that, @Gamebreaker. 

[bearrock]

9 hours ago, wolfsire said:

Don't you think we need a world power to help us keep a level of sanity in the east?

 

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2017/06/05/Russias-Putin-shines-sympathetic-light-on-nuclear-North-Korea/7821496668558/

Quote

Speaking Friday at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, Putin said small countries like North Korea have no option but to build weapons of mass destruction to defend against superpowers like the United States, Japan's Asahi Shimbun reported Sunday.

 

Oh yeah, Russia will help with the sanity level.  I guess we should throw nuclear non-proliferation out the window?  Hey Vlad?  Can Ukraine get their nukes back?

 

Quote

"Let us agree on a unified understanding of norms, fundamental principles of the international law and adhere to these rules. Because as long as there are none, as long as the rule of the strongest, the fist law, is being implemented, we will encounter problems that we are now witnessing in North Korea," Putin said, according to Sputnik.

Putin ladies and gentlemen!

 

[AsburySkinsFan]

48 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

OK, hold the door...Rachael constantly says that, "attacked"...and as much as I love her, and want to be her, or work for her, whatever...they didn't.  They used Wikileaks to **** with our election process, and in my opinion were successful, but that's not an attack...it's a HACK...let's use words in proper context.  No one has successfully attacked us since 9/11.  (**** them too, btw.)

 

But hell to the no...Russia has no business in our business.  Putin is a murderer, and he believes he controls "subjects", just as the Czars before him. 

I disagree, all of the hacks were directly from the Russian government, Wikileaks was just the middleman to disseminate the info they hacked. It's also apparent now that the Russians were at least attempting to hack the voting machine companies. Add to that the MASSIVE misinformation campaign and social media war they waged (think Homeland season 6). If that isn't an attack then I don't know what you call it. They didn't use conventional bombs, instead they worked to destabalize our election and saddled us with an incompetent. They attacked the very notion of free and open electoral process. 

[bearrock]

4 hours ago, twa said:

I'm curious....did ya'll hold the same Russian view when Hillary was hugging their nuts under Obama's direction?

 

Russia hasn't changed since then.

 

I'll admit it.  Romney was right.  I don't know what direction Hillary would have taken it light of Russia's recent actions, but I think Obama foreign policy was naive when it came to cooperation with Russia in the beginning.

[skinsmarydu]

OK, I yield.

[Bang]

the Russians have one goal towards us, and it's never changed.

Crush us.. or in the new world, destabilize us and watch us crush ourselves..

We are dangerously close to being destabilized, especially given the percentage of Americans who now side with our historic enemies against their own country, while the Russians have done nothing to change anything about who they are and what their goals are. Nothing. Not one iota.

Taking them at their word has ALWAYS been a foolish mistake, everyone who ever has done so has paid an enormous price, including having their country invaded, their freedom stolen, and their countrymen killed.  Attempting to reward them for acting as an enemy of this nation and of the entire free world has NEVER been done, until now.

the ONE time in our mutual histories in which we did ANYTHING resembling an alliance in World War II immediately evaporated upon the end of the war, and it was the Soviets who blockaded eastern Europe and started the Cold war that THEY are still fighting, while our doofus in Chief is looking to lick their boots and swear it's all water under the bridge.

 

Those of you supporting this have absolutely no historical reference with which to establish even the smallest amount of trust. None.

Trust, but verify..  isn't that the mantra?

Well, we have verified these attacks against us on a technological front, and his attacks against European nations on a military front are well documented and currently ongoing.

if you support this... check yourself... or be branded what you are.

 

And "sympathizer" used to be the nice way we'd put it.

 

~Bang

[skinsmarydu]

I said I yield.  Sheesh. 

It was a word semantic.  That's all. 

And I served before somebody pleaded to have a wall torn down...I ain't no sympathizer.

[zoony]