2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[DC Lumber Co.]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Zay Jones -- with that dude's catch radius -- red zone target we need  though I admit I had no idea who the heck the dude was until this week.   Now people are talking him up as a possible 2nd-3rd rounder. 

 

I think he surprised a ton of people. I think the consensus was that his numbers were from the offensive scheme and the level of competition argument never helps guys like him either. He sure as hell looked like one of the more natural wideouts out there. Not to mention two near-touchdowns that got called back. Definitely had my attention.

 

And after watching more Kareem Hunt tape unfortunately I think we already have him in the form of Fat Rob. If you watch them you can see a lot or similarities in their run styles. Hunt may be a more well rounded version with his pass catching & protections. I could see us going running back somewhere if they are BPA due to the strength of the position group but I think it should be a change of pace from Fat Rob instead of his clone haha. I just haven't identified who those type of targets are yet. 

 

Some other thoughts from the senior bowl: Glad Josh Reynolds was one of the players we met with this week after his performance today.

 

And ive gotta admit when I'm wrong on someone: and that was with my gut feeling on Travin Dural. Thought he was a good fit for a GMSM late round WR sleeper but he sucked this week and in-game. Duke Riley could make up for him though

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

 

Some other thoughts from the senior bowl: Glad Josh Reynolds was one of the players we met with this week after his performance today.

 

 

 

Yeah agree Reynolds was good, too, if I recall had close to 100 yards and a TD.  If Scot likes them big -- hard to beat someone who is  6"4.  You might be able to get him with one of the 4th round picks.  

[DC Lumber Co.]

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Howard but specific to your point as to the red zone -- I'd replace him with Fournette or Adams or Kamara or Foreman or choose a stud in this NFL draft.   IMO the red zone issues won't be fixed merely via more passing weapons -- the running game is essential to it.   

 

The draft is so loaded and deep at CB and RB be surprised if one isn't drafted -- arguably TE, too.    Wonder the same about speed edge rusher.

 

I agree on the red zone. And in addition to the names you listed, what are your thoughts on Perine from OU? 

 

Also like the idea from your last few posts on speed edge rusher. Sound like some insurance for Gallette if hes a shell of his former self? 

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think you're alright.

Just "alright"? That's hurtful.

 

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm pretty soured on Reed.

He's a fantastic receiver, but given blocking, penalty and (most importantly) injury issues, I really wanted us to look at trading him last offseason rather than giving a big contract.

[Koolblue13]

59 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Just "alright"? That's hurtful.

 

He's a fantastic receiver, but given blocking, penalty and (most importantly) injury issues, I really wanted us to look at trading him last offseason rather than giving a big contract.

Alright is good, jerk lol.

 

He doesn't even pretend he's gonna block. I hate to keep going back to the cowboys,  but witten is the kind of TE who makes an offense great. Reeds a WR, not a TE. Djax makes more of an effort in the run game. That's pathetic. 

 

Hes also a concussion away from retirement or past it. Worst part? Cousins is What? 1- 6 without him this year?

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Howard but specific to your point as to the red zone -- I'd replace him with Fournette or Adams or Kamara or Foreman or choose a stud in this NFL draft.   IMO the red zone issues won't be fixed merely via more passing weapons -- the running game is essential to it.   

Having a TE who can block is, imo, nearly as important to the run game as a new RB.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Having a TE who can block is, imo, nearly as important to the run game as a new RB.

Exactly.  Teams were triple covering Reed and we had nothing else. He just disappeared when keyd on.

[Skinsinparadise]

53 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Having a TE who can block is, imo, nearly as important to the run game as a new RB.

 

I agree with the emphasis on the word "nearly".  Fat Rob is a nice story but I am not sure even with a good blocking tight end he's the answer.   Fortunately, its a great draft for RBs.

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, theboomking said:

Agree. He is special. Imagine a 2TE set with Howard and Jordan Reed. He may creep up out of our range. Honestly, if there is no impact defender at 17, and we go heavy on DL and safety in the draft, imagine Cam Robinson at RG. Williams-Scherff-Long-Robinson-Moses. That line is scary good. 

 

I like but don't love Cam Robinson.  I do know that I don't like his value at all for us at 17.  TBH... I'm a little surprised he won the Outland trophy.  The fact that he did demonstrates how mediocre the top end of this OL class is.

 

My take: 

 

Solid but unspectacular run blocker.  Not the strength of his game.

 

- Massive.  Noticeably bigger than all of the other guys on a very big Alabama OL. Almost always the biggest guy on the field.

- When he lands his punch inside he latches on and wins.  

- Good drive blocker and does a nice job turning and sealing defenders to create the lane.  Alabama did an excellent job running through the B gap because Robinson was so quick off the snap and good at sealing the edge.

- Occasionally plays with nastiness that's fearsome.

 

Extremely consistent pass protector.  He almost never gave up pressure and did play three of the best pass rushers in the draft class this season:

 

- Very quick off the snap, explosive in short areas.  But he does false start a lot, and didn't get called for it most of the time.  He likes to push the limit with his get off, and I'm not sure he'll get away with it so much at the next level.

- Bulky in his base, immovable anchor.

- Pretty good flexibility in his lower half.  Plays with solid pad level for such a tall player.  Can sit in that stance with his knees bent all day.

- Massive bucket step.  Keeps his back straight and looks very comfortable sliding.  Smooth feet.  Very wide base too, he's tough to get around.  

- Good instincts in pass pro, doesn't get fooled by inside counters and has quick reflexes.  Changes directions so effortlessly when he mirrors, and he reacts so fast off the snap that he never gets beat by inside.  And I mean never.

 

Some of the negatives I saw were that he doesn't consistently play to the whistle.  He falls off a lot of blocks on runs before the play has left his area, eliminating cut backs and occasionally leading to stuffs at or behind the LoS.  He's not consistently nasty.  His role in Alabama's blocking scheme was very vanilla, he wasn't executing high difficulty blocks very often.  He'd almost never pull past the center and the few times I saw them try it, he didn't stick the blocks.  Didn't get there in time.  Not an impressive second level blocker because he misses or fails to sustain too many of them.  The issue is his mediocre footspeed.  He's gets off the snap plenty fast, he just doesn't run well and there is nothing you can do about that.  I saw him fall flat on his face once when he was trying to run ahead of the ball carrier in the open field.  

 

He also wasn't the point of attack nearly as much as I was expecting for a power running team with a massive, Outland winning LT.  Alabama ran their outside zones right, and the right handed QB usually defaulted to running right.  Basically he's just an in line blocker who is OK blocking down on power inside runs if he doesn't have to slip to the second level, and only truly excels at blocking DEs on inside zone runs through the B gap.

 

I worry a little about if his outstanding pass protection will translate to the NFL.  He did play on an island, but Bama did things to help him like bump edge rushers with a tight end or back coming out of the backfield on their routes.  Their playcalling kept outside rushers from selling out--lots of screens, draws, sweeps, and bootlegs right.  And I mean lots.  The threat of the run that Hurts posed also slowed defenders down.  He's not going to get that kind of help in the NFL, especially if he's a first round pick.  More likely than not, his team is going to leave him on an island, run a shot gun heavy passing offense with a pocket passing QB, and expect Robinson to get it done against an all out rush 30 to 40 snaps a game.  I'm not saying he can't handle that, I'm saying he didn't have to do it much at Alabama.  If I had to guess, I'd say he typically did that maybe 15 snaps a game.

 

-----------

 

I think teams that really need a LT are going to be way higher on Cam Robinson than everyone else.  I think he could be a potential Pro-Bowler as a LT because of his pass protection.  He didn't give up a single pressure to Myles Garrett or Carl Lawson.  Or anyone else in those games for that matter.  And I didn't watch the TN cut ups as closely, but I'm think he didn't get beat for a pressure by Derek Barnett either.  He decisively won his match ups in the passing game with all three of those guys.  Again, I'm a little wary of saying that dominance in pass protection will fully translate to the NFL--it requires a level of projection that makes me slightly uncomfortable.  But my hunch is that it will.  The guy is so big, so instinctive, and so explosive off the snap, I think he'll make it.

 

But he is not a good fit for us at all because of our power scheme and the fact that we have the best LT in the league and Robinson would be stuck on the bench.  I don't think he'd be any good at all as a guard.  He can't run and can't land a second level block.  He sucks at pulling and kicking out.  He's a tackle only, and TBH, he simply couldn't do what Trent does for us in our running game at the LT spot.  So I would not pick Cam Robinson for the Redskins in the first round.

 

And that's without considering the fact he got arrested before the season for having a stolen gun in his car...

 

It's odd, Brandon Scherff was not nearly as clean a prospect compared to what Cam Robinson put down on film in pass protection this year.  But he was a waaaaay bigger talent than Robinson.  His upside and versatility dwarfed Robinson's.  Picking Robinson wouldn't be the same kind of home run that we hit with Scherff.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

He doesn't even pretend he's gonna block. I hate to keep going back to the cowboys,  but witten is the kind of TE who makes an offense great. Reeds a WR, not a TE. Djax makes more of an effort in the run game. That's pathetic. 

Jordan Reed is an elite playmaker at the TE spot.  He's the biggest single reason our offense was so good at staying ahead of the chains.  You live with the poor run blocking because he's the best at beating coverage and tackling on third down in the sport.  His positives massively outweigh his negatives.

[Alexa]

Reed is not a complete TE and he's injury prone. Without question if there's a TE that they like in the early rounds, and that player is available  then they should go for it.

[DC Lumber Co.]

If we do take one high the only one I'd be happy with is Howard. Jake Butt is an interesting idea, hes sure to fall because of the injury (on top of it already being a deep class). We could stash him for a year, sign Davis to a 1 year deal and hed be ready to replace Davis the following year.

[theboomking]

McQueen, regarding your take on Cam Robinson, Kiper and the draftniks seem to think he is more of a RT. You sure you see him on the left? I suppose it is an academic question. I see no way we draft him an OT/OG at 17.  

Just out of curiosity, removing character issues from the conversation, what is the take amongst the ES draftniks about Joe Mixon as a prospect? I wouldn't be a fan of Mixon on the Redskins. I didn't like the Ravens with Ray Lewis, can't root for Roethlisberger after his two sexual assault cases, and obviously didn't want any part of Hardy. Intellectually though, I am curious as to where people rate him as a pure football talent. The speed and athleticism is obviously there, but in his highlights, I didn't really get a sense that he is a guy to get tough yards up the middle. On the other hand, his receiving skills look ridiculous. He looks like the type of RB that could regularly split out at WR and catch the ball downfield. Where do you guys think he would be drafted if he didn't have such horrible character issues?

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

This draft is deep on defense.  If we don't get a couple of tone setters on that side of the ball with our first two picks, I'm gonna start to have my doubts about GMSM.  Edge/DL/CB/ILB, I don't give a ****.  Draft two killers.

 

If we draft a TE at 17, I'm gonna have to pull for the Panthers.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

^^ it just depends on who is still available at 17. I could live with Howard because he impacts our offense exponentially.

 

He improves the run game, he provides insurance for Reed, he allows Reed to split out wide more and mismatch on a nickel corner and he's another pass catcher for Cousins especially as a red zone target.

 

he also gives Gruden the chance to be be very flexible with play-calling/formations or even trapping a team with personnel you can exploit in a no-huddle scenario since you could go 4 wide with Reed and Howard still being effective and dynamic  as pass catchers but but audible or no huddle into a running play and not lose any blocking due to to Howard's ability there. We couldn't do that even with Davis/Reed. 

 

Offense would be ****ing aces with Garçon resigned, OJ and a FA LG. 

[Dark Acre]

I wouldn't mind using the draft to soldify, for the long term, LG and TE given how deep the class is overall, but anyone we draft on D is better than almost anyone we've got.  I'd also like to get a speedy WR to replace DJax when/if he leaves.  We're really in better position than our record indicates but we have holes.

[RemoveSnyder]

17 hours ago, theboomking said:

I don't know where to project Reddick.

 

What exactly did you see on game film or reps/game this week, not including athleticism, that gave you a positive feeling he could make the transition to stack ILB? 

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, theboomking said:

McQueen, regarding your take on Cam Robinson, Kiper and the draftniks seem to think he is more of a RT. You sure you see him on the left? I suppose it is an academic question. I see no way we draft him an OT/OG at 17.  

Depends on the scheme, whether or not they have the RT or the LT running more.  Some schemes they use the RT to pull a lot and they're responsible for kicking out on those strong side ends too.  He'd be a bad fit for such schemes.  Brandon Scherff ran a scheme at Iowa where he was pulling into the right B and C gaps from the LT spot and he would get there.  So other schemes design for the LT to pull and block down and then get into the second level a lot, and I think he'd be a bad fit at LT for those ones.

 

He needs a vanilla role in your run blocking scheme because he can't run and can't land a second level block with consistency.

 

As far as the pass protection goes, I think he can handle playing LT.  With aplomb.  That's his strength as a player and the source of his first round value IMO.  And I assume it's why he won the Outland Trophy.  He was probably the best pass protecting LT in CFB this season and I think he projects to be one of the best in the NFL.  He can slide and mirror in his sleep and he has tremendous anchor strength and initial quickness to beat legit speed both inside and outside.  I wasn't exaggerating when I said he never gets beat inside, I don't think I noticed a single pressure from there when I watched his cut ups.  And he doesn't get beat around the edge either.

 

If I drafted him I would definitely plan on playing him at LT.  I can cover up some of his deficiencies as a run blocker at that spot if I have good guards or get a really good fullback or tight end.

[Koolblue13]

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Jordan Reed is an elite playmaker at the TE spot.  He's the biggest single reason our offense was so good at staying ahead of the chains.  You live with the poor run blocking because he's the best at beating coverage and tackling on third down in the sport.  His positives massively outweigh his negatives.

When he's on the field, sure.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

I agree on the red zone. And in addition to the names you listed, what are your thoughts on Perine from OU? 

 

Also like the idea from your last few posts on speed edge rusher. Sound like some insurance for Gallette if hes a shell of his former self? 

 

As for Perine honestly I haven't really paid much attention, I recall from watching a game or two he was more of a grinder, inside runner type.  For a refresher I just watched him versus Auburn and confirmed that.   Supposedly, Jay likes move the chain type running backs versus ones that over the course of going for the big play go backwards at times.  Or so was the story about them digging Rob Kelly. If so, guys like Perine might be who they are looking at, plus I doubt you have to use a first or 2nd rounder on him which is good.  Maybe 4th-5th round pick?

 

I haven't really studied the Rbs closely.  But just from watching college football, the two that jumped at me were D. Cook and Kamara. I like running backs with that extra gear who can run outside zone, etc, can catch and can go to the house if they see daylight.    But I'll delve deeper in RB.  But Cook and Kamara, I am infatuated with.

 

As for edge rusher.  People talk here about a blocking TE being a dark horse position.  I'd put the two dark horse position on defense as CB and edge rusher.  Partly because its a deep draft for said positions -- coupled with something minor I learned in a conversation, coupled with Manusky's emphasis on CB in an interview.  I just watched T. McKinley in 2 games.  I am not as good at some here at deciphering hand movement and labeling specific pass rushing moves but aside from that -- a guy like him IMO (or maybe Tim Williams, Charles Harris) would help.  He has burst, the dude can fly, that's easy to see on tape.   He's an athlete -- good bend, can change direction.   On third and long, we don't have a guy like him who is explosive off the snap that we can just line up wide, and run by the LT or RT.     I like Kerrigan but I don't think he scares anyone.   Plus, you get a speed rusher on the 3rd and long, you can move Kerrigan inside with a speed rusher on the edge.

 

 IMO the third and long problems weren't just about the secondary but the lack of pass rush.  QBs had plenty of time to throw the ball.   In third and long situations IMO a first step-explosive type that you can line up wide is more valuable in that context than the power rushers we have. 

[RemoveSnyder]

On January 26, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

watching Wormley's tape against Ohio State 

 

After watching it I felt like putting Wormley in the 4th round, honestly. 95% of his snaps are just snorefest bland. Just no impact. About one and a half minutes into it my attention is already wandering. 3 minutes into it, I'm watching other guys. Ben Gedeon had a good game. He did things which actually made you notice him. I ended up spending double the time with the tape because I'd watch Gedeon then watch the play over to see if Wormley did anything, and not really. 

[Long n Left]

6 hours ago, GothSkinsFan said:

I wouldn't mind using the draft to soldify, for the long term, LG and TE given how deep the class is overall, but anyone we draft on D is better than almost anyone we've got.  I'd also like to get a speedy WR to replace DJax when/if he leaves.  We're really in better position than our record indicates but we have holes.

I agree that if Jackson goes, they'd be wise to try and find a "take the top off" WR. Guy I'm infatuated with as a day 3 pick is Stacey Coley from the U.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

10 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Just "alright"? That's hurtful.

.....

 

I have nothing but respect for you. And not much of that!

 

Hail. 

[theboomking]

6 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

What exactly did you see on game film or reps/game this week, not including athleticism, that gave you a positive feeling he could make the transition to stack ILB? 

Apparently, he played stack and shed a good bit at the senior bowl and looked fantastic. Mayock thinks that will be his primary position in the NFL. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000779834/article/debate-which-prospect-helped-himself-most-at-senior-bowl

 

"Reddick star of the week

If I have to pick one guy, I'll go with Temple ILB Haason Reddick. He showed versatility that people didn't realize he had. He was a 4-3 defensive end at Temple. Here in Mobile, coaches had him stand up and play a couple different positions. He improved each day. Reddick can be an inside linebacker in a 3-4, inside linebacker in a 4-3 and even line up occasionally as an edge rusher. He really helped himself this week."

[RemoveSnyder]

1 minute ago, theboomking said:

Mayock thinks that will be his primary position in the NFL. 

 

I was looking for your take. I watched the senior bowl week and game and his cut-ups. Mayock actually dropped some misinformation about Reddick. But Mayock is prone to vague cliches as well as glossing over deficiencies when he becomes infatuated with a guy.