sacase Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 9 hours ago, Cooked Crack said: A green card lasts for 10 years. You can effectively stay here forever. A visa is temporary. Your grandma is sick or your cousin is getting married? Go pound sand. Ok let's be real about this. Who cares? The only reason this is even an issue is because people just don't like Trump. If Obama does the same thing, no complaints from the left. Besides its not like people from all over the world have the "right" to come here. My wife is from Dominican Republic and her sisters and brothers cannot come visit her because they are too poor and pose a high fraud risk. My wife and I have ZERO problems with that because those are the rules. No one gives a crap about Haitians or African's but oh no, Muslims from terrorist countries cannot come here? Fire up the pitch forks! Hell, we even told the Haitians yeah we are not going to kick you out since your earthquake happened, but you will be getting kicked out eventually. I find it funny how people will champion Latinos or Muslims, but Africans and people of African decent and SOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 If Obama campaigned on banning Muslims and came out with a bs ban people would care. Also this also bans refugees indiscriminately. You seem to forget about them. The Trump administration says these are temporary but I don't really put much faith in them. The purpose of the ban was to increase "vetting." These procedures should have already occurred based on the original ban. Yet here we are limiting travel just because. Somalia, Libya, and Sudan are in Africa btw. Quit acting like you actually care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 50 minutes ago, sacase said: The only reason this is even an issue is because people just don't like Trump. If Obama does the same thing, no complaints from the left. Therein lies the rub... he never would so we don't know. We do know for a fact though that if Obama acts presidential, treats people well, demonstrates knowledge, works hard, and tries to help people then the right is going to say he is Kenyan Muslim terrorist who wants to burn the constitution and implement Sharia. We also know for a fact that Trump can lie daily, disrespect women, insult POWs and Gold Star families, undermine the media & intelligence agencies, & military, & democratic process, threaten to implode the Republican Party if they won't support him after a tape of him saying he can grab women by the ****, demonstrate little to no knowledge of any issue, cheat & steal from people, unconstitutionally attempt to ban people based on their religion, make up lies about his predecessor wiretapping him, shove foreign leaders out of his way for photo opps, etc etc etc etc etc and the right is going to be absolutely fine with it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Cooked Crack said: If Obama campaigned on banning Muslims and came out with a bs ban people would care. Also this also bans refugees indiscriminately. You seem to forget about them. The Trump administration says these are temporary but I don't really put much faith in them. The purpose of the ban was to increase "vetting." These procedures should have already occurred based on the original ban. Yet here we are limiting travel just because. Somalia, Libya, and Sudan are in Africa btw. Quit acting like you actually care. Let's talk about Black non-Muslim African's from Sub-Sahara Africa. Strait up, I really don't care about Refugee's. We really don't give a crap about black refugee's why should we be worked up over Muslim refugee's? Look at how we treat Haitian's vs. Cubans. There is a huge disparity. I wonder why? We did a pretty good job or ignoring Rwandan as well. I have ZERO issue with Somalia, Libya, and Sudan being banned. With what is going on there, why take the risks. Syria, yeah don't really care about that one either, Iran really doesn't like is and is openly hostile and Yemen is a failed state. I have personally been in Yemen and Somalia (2005 time frame) and they are not exactly safe places to be. Another thing, let's be real, its not a Muslim ban. If it was, then why is the biggest Muslim country not on the ban? Let's look at the numbers Libya - .4 percent of the Muslims in the world. Sudan - 1.9 Percent Syria - 1.0 Iran - 4.6 percent Yemen - 1.5 percent Somalia - .6 Total - 10 percent of total Muslims in the world are affected. Of those, how many can actually get a US Visa to come here? How much time, money, and energy have we wasted addressing such a non-issue that affects hardly anyone? Hmm....Not really a Muslim ban especially when you consider that Indonesia has 12.7 percent of the worlds Muslims and Pakistan has 11 percent of the worlds Muslims but they are both not banned. These are just talking points pushed by liberals and the media that are not grounded in reality. Previously I already said that there was no point in implementing the travel ban as so much time had passed that a process should be in place. However, I also said we needed a ruling so that future presidents can make these decision without involving the courts and feel good politics. Trump is right a 9-0 ruling is pretty damning for the lower courts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 You seem to be having an argument with yourself about what to call the ban. Trump made a campaign promise and this BS ban is his way of keeping it. This wasn't about security. It was just to check off a box. The fact that this ban would continue after 90 days shows that. Also the court made a vague compromise. Only 3 justices would have allowed the full ban to continue as intended. We'll see where this goes in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Quote Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said on Friday that the new US ban on travellers from six Muslim countries was "truly shameful". "US now bans Iranian grandmothers from seeing their grandchildren, in a truly shameful exhibition of blind hostility to all Iranians," Zarif tweeted. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Edited June 30, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Um...what? Iraq isn't even supposed to be part of the ban anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 10:43 PM, sacase said: Hmm....Not really a Muslim ban ... Get your head out of your ass. There's nothing else it's about. Ask any joe on the street, progressive or conservative and they'll tell you the reason for this. It's one of the central tenets of his campaign. The reason it's these particular countries is because he's a bully. He ONLY picked the weakest and fewest ties of Muslim countries. He didn't have the stones to do it to Saudia Arabia or any of the emirates or Indonesia. There are safeguards in place to watch for dangerous characters coming from these countries. You'd sing a different tune if one day someone from Dominican Republic killed a bunch of Americans and your wife all of a sudden got held up at the airport. Bull**** false equivalences. Yeah, we've been assholes to refugees in the past let's continue to do that. You know what else we didn't do in the past? Let women and black people vote, kept black people as slaves, used child labor and oh yeah, let white people marry brown people. Let's keep only doing the things we've been doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 those safeguards don't work as well in places where the govt records are missing/corrupted/incomplete.....or the govt not cooperative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Edited July 1, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Edited July 1, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Quote Tens of thousands of applicants for resettlement in the United States are affected by the freeze, and Mohammed is among the unluckiest: His application has been accepted for months, and he was simply waiting for the American government to give him an arrival date. “That is the one that destroyed me the most,” he said on Saturday, as he compared the many challenges he has faced in Iraq and Turkey. “I still had some hope before. Now I have none at all.” Mohammed’s full name and current location are being withheld because of the dangers he faces in Turkey. He is, ironically, fleeing much of the very extremism that Mr. Trump says he wants to wipe out. Mohammed left Mosul soon after Islamic State militants seized control of the city, when his sister warned him that their father had told the extremist group that he had a gay son. But Mohammed’s persecution had started much earlier. In 2009, when he was 18, his father, a former officer in the army of Saddam Hussein, caught him during a sexual encounter with male friends. So began half a decade of torture and abuse. As punishment for his sexuality, Mohammed’s father beat him with metal, and sometimes burned him with a hot skewer. His legs and feet still bear the scars. He was effectively kept under house arrest, allowed out only to complete his engineering degree, and later to work at a local engineering firm. If he was late arriving home, his father would increase the intensity of the beatings. Once, he says, his father punched his head so hard that Mohammed was hospitalized for two days with internal bleeding. Quote Here, he applied for asylum, beginning a long and often byzantine process during which he was screened by the United Nations refugee agency; the International Catholic Migration Commission, a nongovernmental group that has for decades been involved in the resettlement and vetting of refugees to the United States; and at least three American government agencies, in what United Nations officials have described as the world’s most rigorous refugee-screening system. Quote In January, after he was finally approved for resettlement in the United States, Mohammed hoped the windfall from hawking his possessions might tide him over until his departure was confirmed. But then Mr. Trump was inaugurated, and confirmation never came. Instead, the president suspended refugee resettlement, a move that was upheld by the Supreme Court decision this past week. Now Mohammed is thinking of selling his last remaining valuable, his cellphone. He said he was down to his last 20 Turkish lira, less than $6. Edited July 1, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Hmmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 8:38 PM, sacase said: Ok let's be real about this. Who cares? The only reason this is even an issue is because people just don't like Trump. If Obama does the same thing, no complaints from the left. Besides its not like people from all over the world have the "right" to come here. My wife is from Dominican Republic and her sisters and brothers cannot come visit her because they are too poor and pose a high fraud risk. My wife and I have ZERO problems with that because those are the rules. No one gives a crap about Haitians or African's but oh no, Muslims from terrorist countries cannot come here? Fire up the pitch forks! Hell, we even told the Haitians yeah we are not going to kick you out since your earthquake happened, but you will be getting kicked out eventually. I find it funny how people will champion Latinos or Muslims, but Africans and people of African decent and SOL. First off, let me say that you have a valid point in there about focusing on championing only certain ethnicities. People tend to latch on to the latest, or loudest outrage and others fall by the wayside. My issue with the ban (aside from the devastating stories), is that I believe the ban actually empowers Islamic terrorist groups to some degree. People of different nationalities (and religions) move to the US and often thrive, thereby engendering good will for this country abroad. By treating Muslims as (pretty much solely) a threat, this administration is damaging that perspective. Same thing, or close to it anyway, with latinos. Now, you can say this is the price that must be paid for security, but that's essentially lip service since the 90 days that were needed are long up, and not too long ago, people in charge of vetting were saying that the administration had not contacted them about their policies or procedures. And so, the ban should be perceived for what it really is - a follow through on the promises Trump made. Yet he has lied and stoked fear to create (or further) the desire for these extreme measures. My hunch is that what he has done instead is make the US less safe - both by enabling the anti-US rhetoric abroad, as well as aiding the rising tide of anti-Muslim behavior here at home. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself, and yet here is the President (during his campaign and now) stoking fear (and hatred) of Islam, latinos, the media, liberals, etc, etc. That is a very serious problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Burgold Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 9:38 PM, sacase said: Ok let's be real about this. Who cares? The only reason this is even an issue is because people just don't like Trump. If Obama does the same thing, no complaints from the left. The biggest reason I am opposed to this travel ban has nothing to do with Trump personally. It has to do with my own family and WWII. My family was in Poland when the Germans invaded. I lost 90% of them. They were denied the ability to escape to America. I look at millions of Syrian children who have done no wrong and are planning no evil, but live in hell... whether in Syria or the Turk camps. We can and should do better. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Riggo-toni Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Suckers! Say hello to Tariq Aziz's family for us..... /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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