Burgold

The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

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Posted (edited)

The problem with the current strategy on immigration is that it is based on handling the situation after the fact, when desperate people are arriving at the border.  If you truly want to reduce people from coming here (not the ones who can afford to go through the legal process, waiting years....or student visas etc etc.....I am referring to the people fleeing their countries out of desperation) then you need to put resources into studying and fixing or at least play a part in fixing the issues that cause these folks to want to flee in the first place. Much like the "war on drugs" did little to address the problem of why people were using in the first place (nor looked to help people get off the drugs) and simply looked for the easiest back end fix.  You can stop as many people as you want from getting in, but the fact that they are still showing up in mass means you are failing on the actual problem(s).

 

As a country I absolutely do think we have a right to control the flow of immigrants/immigration into our country, that is the right of a sovereign nation, but when you have guy like Trump who comes up with fear tactics and blatant racism in order to push his asinine policies it's no wonder that it pushes Democrats to the sidelines who actually want to address the same issues in good faith. 

 

I know we are supposed to believe all these folks are just showing up because gosh darn everyone loves America, but that simply isn't true.  They are fleeing because they are scared to death to be where they are, and they likely don't view the countries they are passing through on the way here to be much safer.   

 

Also, for America/Americans to act like our foreign policy aka the drug wars haven't played a major part in a lot of the situations in central America is being downright naive or purposely ignorant. 

Edited by NoCalMike
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Posted (edited)

Also part of the reason there's so many people coming to the border now, is that other ways of applying for Asylum or getting visas have been taken away from them.  

It's also likely that the admin is doing things to deliberately increase the number and is going out of it's way not to alleviate the problem, so they that can keep complaining about it.

And we know they had/have an admitted policy of holding the kids who come with parents hostage to punish the parents and have tricked parents into agreeing to be deported without their children or saying they'd be deported together and then doing otherwise.

Edited by visionary
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Most are coming for economic opportunity, we have programs to help those countries....about as effective as most govt programs.

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4 minutes ago, twa said:

Most are coming for economic opportunity, we have programs to help those countries....about as effective as most govt programs.

 

Or maybe opportunity to not be murdered by cartels, or have their children recruited into the gangs at gun point?  That might be a factor for fleeing your country as well.

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Just now, NoCalMike said:

 

Or maybe opportunity to not be murdered by cartels, or have their children recruited into the gangs at gun point?  That might be a factor for fleeing your country as well.

 

They should probably avoid my barrio then....alas they do not.

American expats are a growing trend in Mexico for some reason.

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15 minutes ago, twa said:

Most are coming for economic opportunity, we have programs to help those countries....about as effective as most govt programs.

Actually, Trump has cancelled a bunch of them. One of my friend was in Guatemala working on an education and training program that had been really successful with an at risk indigenous population. Trump canceled the program and he lost his job all with 24 hours notice. 

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11 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Actually, Trump has cancelled a bunch of them. One of my friend was in Guatemala working on an education and training program that had been really successful with an at risk indigenous population. Trump canceled the program and he lost his job all with 24 hours notice. 

 

Yes ,once the rush to the border began in earnest.

 

why pay when it is not working?

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Also can someone explain the Dreamer thing to me.  Are all Dreamers folks from other countries that sign up to be in the American military?  If that is the case how is that not an automatic qualification to get American citizenship? Maybe specify a minimum time that must be served?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Yes ,once the rush to the border began in earnest.

 

why pay when it is not working?

But it was working. The program was showing significant improvements in job skills and employment acquisition. Quite a few of the other programs were working too. There's a reason why the number of illegal crossings had declined during the Obama years.

 

You're trying to have it both ways. Trump cut off funding not because of illegal immigration or ineffective programs, but to please his base who have always opposed foreign aid. The one's who cheered Trump not allowing Puerto Rico to get any "foreign aid" despite it being part of the United States.

Edited by Burgold

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6 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Also can someone explain the Dreamer thing to me.  Are all Dreamers folks from other countries that sign up to be in the American military?  If that is the case how is that not an automatic qualification to get American citizenship? Maybe specify a minimum time that must be served?

No, not all, but there is a percentage that did choose to enlist. Trump is actively trying to deport them.

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3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Also can someone explain the Dreamer thing to me.  Are all Dreamers folks from other countries that sign up to be in the American military?  If that is the case how is that not an automatic qualification to get American citizenship? Maybe specify a minimum time that must be served?

 

Dreamers are children brought here by their parents or that came alone .

 

it has nothing to do with the military, the program there has guidelines that must be followed

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1 minute ago, Burgold said:

But it was working. The program was showing significant improvements in job skills and employment acquisition. Quite a few of the other programs were working too. There's a reason why the number of illegal crossings had declined during the Obama years.

 

You're trying to have it both ways. He cut off funding not because of illegal immigration, but to please his base who have always opposed foreign aid. The one's who cheered Trump not allowing Puerto Rico to get any "foreign aid" despite it being part of the United States.

 

It slowed because of the economy here.

 

last I checked PR was getting quite a bit of aid.

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26 minutes ago, Burgold said:

No, not all, but there is a percentage that did choose to enlist. Trump is actively trying to deport them.

 

Ok, thanks for clearing that up, (twa too).  For some reason I thought it had to do with military service, but it is simply a more broad term for children that were brought here.   Still don't understand who would support them being deported and why?

 

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Posted (edited)

 

 

Quote

The plan to restrict the popular H-1B visa program, under which skilled foreign workers are brought to the United States each year, comes days ahead of U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s visit to New Delhi.

 

India, which has upset companies such as Mastercard and irked the U.S. government with stringent new rules on data storage, is the largest recipient of these temporary visas, most of them to workers at big Indian technology firms.

 

The warning comes as trade tensions between the United States and India have resulted in tit-for-tat tariff actions in recent weeks. From Sunday, India imposed higher tariffs on some U.S. goods, days after Washington withdrew a key trade privilege for New Delhi.

 

Two senior Indian government officials said on Wednesday they were briefed last week on a U.S. government plan to cap H-1B visas issued each year to Indians at between 10% and 15% of the annual quota. There is no current country-specific limit on the 85,000 H-1B work visas granted each year, and an estimated 70% go to Indians.

 

Both officials said they were told the plan was linked to the global push for “data localization”, in which a country places restrictions on data as a way to gain better control over it and potentially curb the power of international companies. U.S. firms have lobbied hard against data localization rules around the world.

 

Edited by visionary
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1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Ok, thanks for clearing that up, (twa too).  For some reason I thought it had to do with military service, but it is simply a more broad term for children that were brought here.   Still don't understand who would support them being deported and why?

 

Think about it for a minute. I’m pretty sure you can come with the “who” and “why”

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

cruelty is always the answer for these ****es

 

the air they breathe is wasted on them

 

where them "all lives matter" ****s at now?

Edited by StillUnknown

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We have a Concentration Camp on the southern border and Dems are scared to call for hearings on impeachment.

 

This country is so finished.

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At some point the Dems will have to let go of their aspirations to be career public officials and just call things for what they are.  

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Quote

EL PASO, Texas (AP) — A traumatic and dangerous situation is unfolding for some 250 infants, children and teens locked up for up to 27 days without adequate food, water and sanitation, according to a legal team that interviewed dozens of children at a Border Patrol station in Texas.

The attorneys who recently visited the facility near El Paso told The Associated Press that three girls, ages 10 to 15, said they had been taking turns watching over a sick 2-year-old boy because there was no one else to look after him.

When the lawyers saw the boy, he wasn’t wearing a diaper and had wet his pants, and his shirt was smeared in mucus. They said at least 15 children at the facility had the flu, and some were kept in medical quarantine.

 

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Yeah but....let's attack AOC because she said "Concentration camps" THAT is what we should be focused on. Come on media, do your job! Ugh........

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20 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

We have a Concentration Camp on the southern border and Dems are scared to call for hearings on impeachment.

 

This country is so finished.

 

I hear ya, and while I get why you say that and the attendant angst I disagree.

 

"This" country is nothing more than the latest iteration. It isn't the same one I was born into, it definitely isn't the same one that existed prior to WWII, etc., we rebuild and reinvent ourselves with every generation. "This" is just the ****ty version that resulted from a bunch of arrogant entitled self absorbed assholes, this too shall pass. The boomers will serve as an example to generations to come of what not to be and how not to do it. You know that cliche "There's nothing new under the sun"? That really was overwhelmingly true for centuries, we just rediscovered and redid what the previous had over and over again, kinda like the constant "new" Spiderman movies. 

 

But there is something new now.

 

Technology allows you and me and almost everyone to read and see and talk instantaneously around the globe without/outside of government controlled channels, and government means all the corporate/ state sanctioned/ church dominated/ money controlled ways that bureaucracies have used to keep people in bondage. The fact that this is new and we don't have the faintest inkling how to use it properly/positively yet doesn't mitigate the fact that it is a corrosive eroding force on all the Big Brothers out there. Every day another person discovers that there is this whole big world out there that doesn't know or see or live like they do, and questions are bubbling up that those in control don't want asked, much less answered.

 

But it's slow, glacially slow in terms of our everyday lives. Social tectonics. Pressures are building, tiny tremors occur and people write them off and go back to their routines, but the pressure continues to mount. No one can predict what will happen when it lets go, but it will. It is inevitable. The world the exists afterwards will bear little relation to the one before, the same way that the Great Earthquake of 1861 that lasted four years changed things in this country, the one from '39 to '45 changed things around the globe, wildly, radically, and the next big one will do it again. But in the aftermath a very different generation that grew up with tech and saw the effects of vampire greed and all the rest will be the ones rebuilding.

 

 

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1 hour ago, LD0506 said:

 

I hear ya, and while I get why you say that and the attendant angst I disagree.

 

"This" country is nothing more than the latest iteration. It isn't the same one I was born into, it definitely isn't the same one that existed prior to WWII, etc., we rebuild and reinvent ourselves with every generation. "This" is just the ****ty version that resulted from a bunch of arrogant entitled self absorbed assholes, this too shall pass. The boomers will serve as an example to generations to come of what not to be and how not to do it. You know that cliche "There's nothing new under the sun"? That really was overwhelmingly true for centuries, we just rediscovered and redid what the previous had over and over again, kinda like the constant "new" Spiderman movies. 

 

But there is something new now.

 

Technology allows you and me and almost everyone to read and see and talk instantaneously around the globe without/outside of government controlled channels, and government means all the corporate/ state sanctioned/ church dominated/ money controlled ways that bureaucracies have used to keep people in bondage. The fact that this is new and we don't have the faintest inkling how to use it properly/positively yet doesn't mitigate the fact that it is a corrosive eroding force on all the Big Brothers out there. Every day another person discovers that there is this whole big world out there that doesn't know or see or live like they do, and questions are bubbling up that those in control don't want asked, much less answered.

 

But it's slow, glacially slow in terms of our everyday lives. Social tectonics. Pressures are building, tiny tremors occur and people write them off and go back to their routines, but the pressure continues to mount. No one can predict what will happen when it lets go, but it will. It is inevitable. The world the exists afterwards will bear little relation to the one before, the same way that the Great Earthquake of 1861 that lasted four years changed things in this country, the one from '39 to '45 changed things around the globe, wildly, radically, and the next big one will do it again. But in the aftermath a very different generation that grew up with tech and saw the effects of vampire greed and all the rest will be the ones rebuilding.

 

 

I really want to believe this but the concentration camps are out of the 1939-45 playbook.

 

Thanks for sharing and your optimism, but this world effed over my generation and has always effed over people that look like me.

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