Gibbit Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Weve got some ****ty walls already...Mostly fences that they just cut though and we patch up after the fact. Upgrading our southern border isn't hurting anyone except folks that want to cross illegally. Fighting republicans on this issue is strictly politics. We as a nation do need to upgrade it...regardless what side is in power 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 On 11/17/2018 at 6:22 PM, Gibbit said: Weve got some ****ty walls already...Mostly fences that they just cut though and we patch up after the fact. Upgrading our southern border isn't hurting anyone except folks that want to cross illegally. Fighting republicans on this issue is strictly politics. A conservative (with a very small c) estimate of the cost of building a border wall is $21 BILLION dollars. BILLION. The actual cost will almost certainly be higher. Other estimates run as high as $74 billion. Let's just agree is a **** load. Of our money. Or more accurately since we are already running a budget deficit made much worse by tax cuts for large corporations money we have to borrow and pay interest on. For something that will not solve the problem or even make much of a dent in it. Sound like a good plan? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, MartinC said: A conservative (with a very small c) estimate of the cost of building a border wall is $21 BILLION dollars. BILLION. The actual cost will almost certainly be higher. Other estimates run as high as $74 billion. Let's just agree is a **** load. Of our money. Or more accurately since we are already running a budget deficit made much worse by tax cuts for large corporations money we have to borrow and pay interest on. For something that will not solve the problem or even make much of a dent in it. Sound like a good plan? yeah I don't know....Ive never seen it myself, but the videos ive seen of our southern border is mostly chainlink fence. I mean we can do better than that cant we? Its making it too easy. you can throw out big numbers but how much does that equate to each taxpayer? Whats it going to cost me, because my government wipes its ass with billion dollar bills Edited November 19, 2018 by Gibbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, Gibbit said: you can throw out big numbers but how much does that equate to each taxpayer? Whats it going to cost me, because my government wipes its ass with billion dollar bills Yeah well those dollar bills they wipe their ass with - they come from you and me. And the ones they borrow you and I pay the interest on that debt. And the ones they spend on building walls they are not spending on health care or education. Among other things. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, MartinC said: Yeah well those dollar bills they wipe their ass with - they come from you and me. And the ones they borrow you and I pay the interest on that debt. And the ones they spend on building walls they are not spending on health care or education. Among other things. whats the military budget for a year... I say we pull it out of that and beef it up a little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gibbit said: whats the military budget for a year... I say we pull it out of that and beef it up a little About $630 Billion. Which is more than the next seven highest spending nations on Earth spend. Combined. I could certainly get behind using some of that budget on more sensible things (not sure the wall qualifies in that regard). But good luck finding a Republican President who would even whisper about cuts to the military budget. Or a Democrat come to that. Seems like something of a taboo subject over here for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Healthcare and education of illegal immigrants costs? https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Border wall will never be fully realized. The US government has spent how many years in court trying to secure land rights to build it? 25 plus? I know Trump has stepped up land seizures but it will still likely take decades. Especially if more groups like this exists. http://www.news9.com/story/39507439/cards-against-humanity-buys-land-on-us-mexico-border-to-block-trump-from-building-wall Building a wall isn't the answer. Colossal waste of time, resources, and man hours. Why are conservatives in favor of this again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, twa said: Healthcare and education of illegal immigrants costs? https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers If your going to quote bogus studies that have been fact checked - thats a problem. https://www.cato.org/blog/fairs-fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-study-fatally-flawed A more reasonable estimate of the cost of illegal immigration is circa $8 or 9 billion. Which is not nothing - and I am not arguing there is not an issue here which needs to be tackled. Just that building a stupidly expensive and largely symbolic wall is not the way to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, MartinC said: Just that building a stupidly expensive and largely symbolic wall is not the way to do it. I agree, but there is a better chance of a wall than people working to address the real problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, twa said: I agree, but there is a better chance of a wall than people working to address the real problems. Doing something (at great cost) which does not address the problem because no one can agree how to really tackle that problem is not good thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, MartinC said: Doing something (at great cost) which does not address the problem because no one can agree how to really tackle that problem is not good thinking. No, it isn't do you like this study? https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#6549ee412c47 How American Citizens Finance $18.5 Billion In Health Care For Unauthorized Immigrants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, twa said: No, it isn't do you like this study? https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#6549ee412c47 How American Citizens Finance $18.5 Billion In Health Care For Unauthorized Immigrants Its as good an estimate as any - probably a little on the high side but I would not quibble. But when you look at the contributions in taxes etc illegal immigrants and their kids make the net is back to circa that $9B number. $9B is not to be sniffed at. It IS an issue. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 So what about that scary caravan? Mission Accomplished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cooked Crack said: So what about that scary caravan? Mission Accomplished? apparently they found work in tijuana….most likely ford or gmc. Still there are worse things crossing our borders than illegal workers. putting a chain link fence in front of cartels bringing in heroin is silly....sure they could still get over/under a wall but it would take more than a few minutes and a 5 dollar pair of snips Edited November 19, 2018 by Gibbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 44 minutes ago, Gibbit said: apparently they found work in tijuana….most likely ford or gmc. Still there are worse things crossing our borders than illegal workers. putting a chain link fence in front of cartels bringing in heroin is silly....sure they could still get over/under a wall but it would take more than a few minutes and a 5 dollar pair of snips They're stuck in Tijuana and could be there 6 months. They're sleeping on dirt floors at a sports complex there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 48 minutes ago, Gibbit said: apparently they found work in tijuana….most likely ford or gmc. Still there are worse things crossing our borders than illegal workers. putting a chain link fence in front of cartels bringing in heroin is silly....sure they could still get over/under a wall but it would take more than a few minutes and a 5 dollar pair of snips Most illegal drugs enter the US smuggled in via air and ship entering at ports and airports. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/29/trump-says-border-wall-will-stop-drugs-heres-what-a-dea-intel-report-says/amp/ A wall is not helping much of anything. Unless you are in the wall building business I guess. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, MartinC said: Most illegal drugs enter the US smuggled in via air and ship entering at ports and airports. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/29/trump-says-border-wall-will-stop-drugs-heres-what-a-dea-intel-report-says/amp/ A wall is not helping much of anything. Unless you are in the wall building business I guess. obviously that's based on what they've caught...Seems like theres still a **** ton of drugs. Things that make ya go hmm Edited November 19, 2018 by Gibbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Gibbit said: obviously that's based on what they've caught...Seems like theres still a **** ton of drugs. Things that make ya go hmm There are a LOT of things that make me go hmm. Comments like this for example ... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, MartinC said: There are a LOT of things that make me go hmm. Comments like this for example ... that's fine...I can see a benefit to upgrading our southern border. In the grand scheme of things it would be a small cost imo. perhaps if it wasn't so politicized.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 hours ago, twa said: Healthcare and education of illegal immigrants costs? Healthcare and education of illegal immigrants and US citizens that we also have a problem with, because of their parents. Not that the web site of the organization dedicated to educating people about the threat posed by immigration might be trying to inflate their numbers, or anything, by using other methods in addition to the one they openly admit to. 3 hours ago, visionary said: Not that it was a political publicity stunt, or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Why settle for someone like him when you can have the real thing? Please take his ass! He likes big macs, diet coke, Putin, and twitter. We don't want **** in return, just get him outta here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, Larry said: Healthcare and education of illegal immigrants and US citizens that we also have a problem with, because of their parents. Not that the web site of the organization dedicated to educating people about the threat posed by immigration might be trying to inflate their numbers, or anything, by using other methods in addition to the one they openly admit to. the costs for those kids would not be incurred if their parents were not here in most cases. seems to me it is a reasonable addition to cost....you are free to assert the value we get from children any study on illegals has challenges and bias, we cannot even say how many are here with certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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