The Gun Control Debate Thread

[visionary]

28 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

What grocery store is she shopping at? Asking for a friend.

Does 7-11 count? (more of a convenience store, I suppose)  I seem to recall noting adult magazines in there back in the day.  Never picked any up though.

Edited May 29, 2018 by visionary

[Cooked Crack]

13 minutes ago, visionary said:

Does 7-11 count? (more of a convenience store, I suppose)  I seem to recall noting adult magazines in there back in the day.  Never picked any up though.

Your 7-11 must have been a raunchy one. We didn't have nudie mags at mines.

[visionary]

9 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

Your 7-11 must have been a raunchy one. We didn't have nudie mags at mines.

I definitely remember seeing things like Hustler in multiple 7-11's, though I think they often had the front covered up. 

 

 

Ok...so....do not check "porn in 7-11" in an online search 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

They sell nude mags at sheets and 7-11 and I live in Liberty Universty VA 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

9 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

They sell nude mags at sheets and 7-11 and I live in Liberty Universty VA 

 

And it is more expensive there than your subscription to them right?

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Just now, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

And it is more expensive there than your subscription to them right?

 

I’d imagine but I wouldn’t know. It’s the devil’s literature ?

[@DCGoldPants]

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

[tshile]

She looks like the kind of chick you don’t actually call tomorrow

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

at this rate she will be the GOP VP pick in 2024

[twa]

5 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

at this rate she will be the GOP VP pick in 2024

 

Pence's wife sure won't let him be alone.

[Kosher Ham]

I see both sides. 

To me the criminal element and potential situation...forces me to not want prohibition. 

We have discussed several compromises. I actually believe... we can fix some but not all. 

 

The right to protect...seems real easy to most. 

At the endof the day it is not. 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

A link that @Renegade7 posted (thanks) to a bunch of poll questions in regard to gun control.  I found many of them to be surprising and thought worth sharing.

 

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

Edited May 31, 2018 by TheGreatBuzz

[tshile]

I’ve posted something similar in the past. 

 

You have to think about what the divide is on the issue then look at the numbers. Compare general statements to specific ones. 

 

56% favorbanning ar-15’s effective to prevent mass school shootings. 48% favor arming teachers  

 

meanwhile 47% think arming teachers would be effective in some level and 64% think banning ar-15’s would be effective. 

 

So someone is for something they don’t think is effective and a lot of someones are not for something they do think is effective. 

 

Also how is training police to better respond to active shooter supposed to prevent active shootings? 90% think it will be effective. It doesn’t even sound like a logical question....

 

Only 46% are dissatisfied with current gun laws and want more strict gun laws. Not even half. 

 

71% against a handgun ban

 

The ideas that poll high enough to indicate broad support from both sides (which in this case means most dems and a good chunk of republicans, since most dems favor gun control to begin with, which I feel like should be 60% minimum, and would suggest more like 70%) on mass shooting are the ideas that are about things other than controlling guns or ammo, with the exception of background checks. 

 

For general gun control it’s about registering and background checks. 

 

More are against banning assault weapons than for (although it’s only by 1%)

 

with the the exception of background checks I don’t see broad support for changing anything soon. 

 

 

 

And while background checks gets broad support, they don’t specify what

 

start polling in what items in a background check should and shouldn’t block the purchase of a gun and you’ll see that broad support vanish. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by tshile

[Renegade7]

This seems like a reasonable start.  As much as many of you are against turning schools into prisions, there's overwhelming support for increasing focus on security and security checkpoints in schools.  If nobody wants to admit that means metal detectors, that's fine, that's your prerogative.  Background checks looks easy, we can do that first and federal subsidies for local level school districts to help with added security infrastructure for schools.  This should be a simple place to start, why isn't it?

 

Edit:  I don't believe there needs to be a federal database regarding background checks, its should be state one with the same framework and federally accessible.

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Renegade7

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Background checks looks easy,

Like @tshile said, start asking what things specifically in a background check should prevent gun ownership and watch the mass support vanish.  From what I saw, the broad questions had higher support.  The questions with less detail got less support.

 

Also, there was a decent split in very similar questions like banning AR-15 type weapons.  How did you post that copy of the poll?  I feel like it might be easier to show if I can post two polls next to each other.

[tshile]

You have to include the question. The wording of the question matters. 

 

Do you favor X

 

is substantially different from 

 

do you think X will prevent school shootings 

 

 

The options are the same, the question is different. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by tshile

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Like @tshile said, start asking what things specifically in a background check should prevent gun ownership and watch the mass support vanish.  From what I saw, the broad questions had higher support.  The questions with less detail got less support.

 

Also, there was a decent split in very similar questions like banning AR-15 type weapons.  How did you post that copy of the poll?  I feel like it might be easier to show if I can post two polls next to each other.

 

44 states don't require universal background checks for firearm purchases, just start with what you already check for.

 

I'm taking a screenshot, saving it to my computer and posting it like I would any other image file.

[tshile]

4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Also, there was a decent split in very similar questions like banning AR-15 type weapons.  H

 

That was the most surprising one to me. I thought support for banning those was higher. 

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

You have to include the question. The wording of the question matters. 

 

Do you favor X

 

is substantially different from 

 

do you think X will prevent school shootings 

 

 

I hate statistics, you can make them say a of thing.  Without the context you might understand something correctly.  Only class in college I get less then a B on, I got a D.  I hate it.

 

Anyways, what should have more weight, whether someone thinks something will work or saying we should do it anyway?  I don't like statistics, but I believe in probability.

[tshile]

You can make them say what you want to people who don’t know any better. It usually requires ignoring context, word selection, sample size and representation, and some just plain old lying. 

 

What matters is what drives policy.

 

If our leaders cared about what worked when it comes to our children being massacred while in school, they wouldn’t give a **** what some Gallup poll says the American people support. 

 

Seems to me what matters is what people want combined with how attached to it they are. People seem pretty attached to their gun rights opinions. 

 

And the leaders have done nothing of significance. 

 

The answer as to what currently matters seems crystal clear. 

 

 

Staristics are great. People just don’t know how they work, and others just lie and mislead with them because people don’t understand how they work. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by tshile

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

44 states don't require universal background checks for firearm purchases, just start with what you already check for.

 

I'm taking a screenshot, saving it to my computer and posting it like I would any other image file.

Got it.  So here are two polls.  Notice the difference in assault rifle-type weapons answers.

 

 

Please tell me whether you favor or oppose each of the following approaches to prevent mass shootings at schools. [RANDOM ORDER]

	Favor	Oppose	No opinion
	%	%	%
* Less than 0.5%
GALLUP, MARCH 5-11, 2018
Increased training for police officers and first responders on how to respond to active shootings	95	5	*
Requiring background checks for all gun sales	92	7	1
Installing more security checkpoints and security systems for allowing people into schools	87	13	*
Instituting new programs to identify, assess and manage certain students who may pose a threat	86	13	1
Raising the legal age at which people can purchase certain firearms from 18 to 21	68	30	1
Banning the sale of semi-automatic weapons such as the AR-15	56	42	2
Having teachers or other school officials with appropriate training carry guns at school	42	56	2

 

 

If new gun control laws were passed, do you think it would reduce the number of mass shootings in the U.S. -- a great deal, a moderate amount, a little or not at all?

	Great deal	Moderate amount	A little	Not at all	No opinion
	%	%	%	%	%
GALLUP
2017 Oct 5-11	21	20	16	42	1

 

 

So a bunch of people want new laws but also don't think they will be effective?

 

 

Would you favor or oppose a law which would require universal background checks for all gun purchases in the U.S. using a centralized database across all 50 states?

	Favor	Oppose	No opinion
	%	%	%
GALLUP
2015 Oct 7-11	86	12	2

 

 

If such a law were passed, do you think it would reduce the number of mass shootings in the U.S. -- a great deal, a moderate amount, a little or not at all?

	A great deal	A moderate amount	A little	Not at all	No opinion
	%	%	%	%	%
GALLUP
2015 Oct 7-11	19	28	22	31	1

 

A bunch of people want background checks yet over 50% think they will have little to no effect?

 

 

What is your overall opinion of the National Rifle Association, also known as the NRA -- is it very favorable, mostly favorable, mostly unfavorable or very unfavorable?

	Very favorable	Mostly favorable	Mostly unfavorable	Very unfavorable	No opinion
	%	%	%	%	%
GALLUP
2015 Oct 7-11	26	32	17	18	6
2012 Dec 19-22	21	33	20	18	7
2005 Apr 4-7	18	42	19	15	6
2000 May 23-24	19	33	21	18	9
2000 Apr 7-9	15	36	20	19	10
1999 Apr 26-27	14	37	22	18	9
1995 Jun 5-6	14	28	25	26	7
1993 Mar 12-14	22	33	18	14	13

 

Over half find the NRA to be favorable?

 

 

I get dates were different and whatnot but you can look and see numbers vary by a decent number on the same topics.

 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

Staristics are great. People just don’t know how they work, and others just lie and mislead with them because people don’t understand how they work. 

But that's why I don't like them, who's winning right now?

[tshile]

1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So a bunch of people want new laws but also don't think they will be effective?

 

Good catch on the at-15 discrepancy. I only caught the arming teachers one 

 

I guess they get credit for being honest. They’re for things for reasons other than they think they will work. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

But that's why I don't like them, who's winning right now?

 

Those who pray on the uneducated and angry are always going to win unless we change something about our culture. 

 

Hard to change someone’s mind when they are starting from a place not grounded in fact and reality. 

 

(Less a gun control specific comment, more a comment on the role statistics play in politics these days) 

[TheGreatBuzz]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I hate statistics, you can make them say a of thing.  Without the context you might understand something correctly.  Only class in college I get less then a B on, I got a D.  I hate it.

 

Anyways, what should have more weight, whether someone thinks something will work or saying we should do it anyway?  I don't like statistics, but I believe in probability.

I took a few statistics classes.  Enough to get me in trouble.  Anyways, I wish some of these polls had more info.  Sample size, mean/mode/median, levels of deviation, etc.  Where was this poll taken?  Demographics of participants?  Manipulating those is the key to making a poll say what you want.