Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, twa said: That reply was not directed at you.(thought I guess I shoulda used dogofwar instead of dog) Oh, I see. I didn't even notice the "dog". Must have thought you were just using in the Randy Jackson sense. 9 minutes ago, twa said: you win YES!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) Listened to a segment on TV about arming teachers. The advocate for this idea came out saying that arming teachers was the best way to defend students. When pressed, she qualified and said only well trained and well qualified teachers would be armed. When asked what constitutes a well trained and highly qualified person the advocate said any teacher who believes in self defense and has a desire to defend themselves. Welcome me to the dime store novel version of the Wild West. The “plan” is to do vetting, training, or certifying whatsoever. Edited February 25, 2018 by Burgold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Dana Loesch is a human underwear stain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Burgold said: Listened to a segment on TV about arming teachers. The advocate for this idea came out saying that arming teachers was the best way to defend students. When pressed, she qualified and said only well trained and well qualified teachers would be armed. When asked what constitutes a well trained and highly qualified person the advocate said any teacher who believes in self defense and has a desire to defend themselves. Welcome me to the dime store novel version of the Wild West. The “plan” is to do vetting, training, or certifying whatsoever. Would you still object if they qualified to the level we have here for school marshal's? https://www.tcole.texas.gov/content/school-marshals or would this lady's be enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 5 hours ago, No Excuses said: Another poll basically showing the same public opinion as the CNN one: Wouldn’t be a stretch to say that public opinion on guns like the AR-15 has shifted dramatically. The drawback with that poll, is that "people who want AR-15s banned" includes "people who want AR-15s banned, but will continue to vote straight Republican, anyway, because Hillary, or abortion, or because they somehow still think the Republicans are better, fiscally, or . . . " The poll is nice. But the fact is that for many politicians right now, going against the gun lobby's agenda still costs them more votes than it gets them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, twa said: Would you still object if they qualified to the level we have here for school marshal's? https://www.tcole.texas.gov/content/school-marshals I've already said "no" To me, the entire issue is a non starter. I have fought with you, Peter, and Tshile over this. I have borne the slings and arrows and accusatory names for "ahem," sticking to my guns on this issue. However, I think it's useful to point out to those teetering what those in charge of planning this are saying. You're a pretty big proponent. Do you think, right now, there are sufficient numbers of teachers with sufficient training to protect every school in America? You can claim that the exception makes the rule (didn't watch the video so I don't even know if she would be a good exception), but while I am open to many ideas... the bad outweighs the good when it comes to arming teachers.It's possible I'm wrong about this, but I really don't think so and I certainly haven't seen any argument or plan that comes close to making me want to reconsider or compromise my position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Non-starter for me as well. This is no solution. It’s just another way for us to try “more guns” and when it happens again in 3 weeks it’ll be, “well now we need more guns in ______.” It’s the same non-solution that the NRA suggests every time this happens. The same non-solution that has gotten us to this point. And frankly, it’s just a diversion from any type of actual progress toward reducing mass shootings & gun deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Just now, Burgold said: I've already said "no" To me, the entire issue is a non starter. I have fought with you, Peter, and Tshile over this. I have borne the slings and arrows and accusatory names for "ahem," sticking to my guns on this issue. However, I think it's useful to point out to those teetering what those in charge of planning this are saying. You're a pretty big proponent. Do you think, right now, there are sufficient numbers of teachers with sufficient training to protect every school in America? You can claim that the exception makes the rule (didn't watch the video so I don't even know if she would be a good exception), but while I am open to many ideas... the bad outweighs the good when it comes to arming teachers.It's possible I'm wrong about this, but I really don't think so and I certainly haven't seen any argument or plan that comes close to making me want to reconsider or compromise my position. Going by standard risk assessment you don't need to protect every school or every school have the same level. Before I can say there are enough I need a 'sufficient training level' criteria. YOU put the qualifier and I'd like a answer besides "No" if you want to discuss it. Did you read the link on school marshalls?....THAT would be upper level training (when combined with restricted mission) making them higher trained than many beat cops I can certainly say there are enough at ccw training levels, and those can be schooled up fairly quickly. I prefer a standard above ccw though. Whatever number we put out there is much higher than the number protecting kids now. Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Non-starter for me as well. This is no solution. are you willing to pay to put police or armed security in schools instead? Cause most law change hopes take yrs to make a impact IF implemented and there are still millions of guns out there.. What is the solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, twa said: are you willing to pay to put police or armed security in schools instead? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Yes. How many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, twa said: How many? How many you want? I’d pay to put a lot of things in those buildings. Or how about this? Have you seen what the military budget looks like compared to the education budget? How about we take a micro fraction of the money we’re already spending on defense and use it to defend our schools? Edited February 25, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: How many you want? I’d pay to put a lot of things in there. Or how about this? Have you seen what the military budget looks like compared to the education budget? How about we take a micro fraction of the money we’re already spending on defense and use it to defend our schools? We could base troops in schools even. We already are starting police substations in them. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2018/02/22/wealthy-texas-suburb-build-police-substation-school-campus add our school marsal criteria is 1 for every 400 students or one for each building I believe.....seems a good starting point. Edited February 25, 2018 by twa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, twa said: We could base troops in schools even. We already are starting police substations in them. https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2018/02/22/wealthy-texas-suburb-build-police-substation-school-campus add our school marsal criteria is 1 for every 400 students or one for each building I believe.....seems a good starting point. I can't decide if substations in schools makes me ill at ease or I think it might be an idea worth exploring. It might be both. It definitely makes me a bit sad that it might be a reasonable idea. I'm a big believer in prevention. The trick to preventing violence is often stopping it well before the terrorist/shooter/whatevernameyouwanttogive gets to the school It probably needs to start years in advance of the actual incident. Now, I do think there has to be a second level that deals with crisis as it occurs, but it seems too much or nearly all energy is being devoted to what happens during the crisis and while I think that's important... reducing the number of crises is an even bigger deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Identifying and detaining/disarming them is certainly a good thing. Needs work and attention obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, twa said: Identifying and detaining/disarming them is certainly a good thing. Needs work and attention obviously The best prevention addresses the issue before you need to disarm them. By the time, they work up the plan, get the weapon, etc. they're pretty far in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Just now, Burgold said: Now, I do think there has to be a second level that deals with crisis as it occurs, but it seems too much or nearly all energy is being devoted to what happens during the crisis and while I think that's important... reducing the number of crises is an even bigger deal. But you don't think the cheaper option of arming/training select staff is it. Just now, Burgold said: The best prevention addresses the issue before you need to disarm them. By the time, they work up the plan, get the weapon, etc. they're pretty far in the process. Certainly, such as Red Flag laws and open communication about potential threats and people needing intervention. As I have always said it is a people problem, gotta start there or it is whack a mole ....gotta reduce or slow the moles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) As far as I'm concerned, we have spent the last twenty years trying your strategy. We have been funneling guns everywhere, relaxing gun laws, and maximizing access. So no, I think continuing that trend does not do much good. You are just inciting an arms race. Edited February 26, 2018 by Burgold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Just now, Burgold said: As far as I'm concerned, we have spent the last twenty years trying your strategy. We have been funneling guns everywhere, relaxing gun laws, and maximizing access. So no, I think continuing that trend does much good. You are just inciting an arms race. How many guns were at the Broward school or any of the others? These turds KNOW that, just as they use other knowns in their choices. You are losing focus on cause Neither arming teachers nor gun laws will stop this w/o addressing the Main problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Militarizing our schools is not the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Advocating for armed military at every school in the nation is an interesting “conservative” position. Very, very “Freedom-y”. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 21 minutes ago, twa said: How many guns were at the Broward school or any of the others? These turds KNOW that, just as they use other knowns in their choices. You are losing focus on cause Neither arming teachers nor gun laws will stop this w/o addressing the Main problem. No, the cause is that fact that these turds have weapons which only have offensive utility. You don't think there were crazies in the crack riots of the 80's or sufficient hatred to shoot up a school during the civil rights era? Humanity hasn't changed that significantly in 25 years. We haven't evolved into a more violent, crazier species of human. What's different is the cause. The cause is access to weapons which are not meant for self defense, not meant for hunting, not meant for target shooting, and not meant for collecting. What's different is the mass proliferation of offensive vs. defensive firearms which make acts like these so much more feasible. The gun rights community has caused this. They are the cause. Look at America in any other generation. Look at any other area of the world today. The difference is damned clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Honest question. Do we think that potential shooters like the Florida kid would be less inclined to do what he did if there was a possibility that a teacher might be armed? I don't know the answer to that. What's mindset of someone hellbent on going down in history as a "school shooter." The Columbine two were on a death mission anyway. The Florida kid tried to escape, so he didn't want to die. Some school systems have camera boxes in school buses. They aren't expensive, but the cameras that go in them are. They only have a few cameras that they rotate through the buses. But riders never know if the "box" in their bus is loaded or not with a camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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