2016 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Taylor703]

Doesn't the loss to Miami help our draft position though? Considering how bad they are...

[clskinsfan]

Doesn't the loss to Miami help our draft position though? Considering how bad they are...

 

Yes it does. But if we win that game we are better position to win the division right now. I am not ready to give up on the season yet for draft picks

[Rufus T Firefly]

I've been strident on our first rounder going QB all the way, and I still would feel that way if I was confident the QB prospects were worthy of a top 10-12 pick, but right now the only guy I still think is worthy of top 10 consideration right now is Goff. 

Yeah, all that. If you can get an franchise QB, it's beyond a no-brainer to get one. But I don't see one this year.. Goff is the only one in the ballpark at the moment, imo.

 

If there isn't one, I would want to trade down (as well as trading a couple of vets) for picks in 17-18. Stockpile ammo for those drafts. Then continue to build a great D and running game. Maybe you find a sleeper QB to take a shot on in the draft later on.

[pjfootballer]

The more I see of Hogan, the more impressed I am. NFL ready body and mind.

I've been pushing him in here a bit. He'd be the one I'd like to see us get.

[Going Commando]

Osemele can't get here soon enough.

I've been thinking about FA guards and centers since you posted this. Here are lists of upcoming FAs:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/guard/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/center/

This offseason Iupati got 8 million per year with 22.5 million guaranteed. Rodney Hudson got 8.9 million per year with 20 million guaranteed. Orlando Franklin got 7.3 million per with 16.5 guaranteed. Those were the top three players on the market and it appears an established Probowl caliber player can expect to command from 7-8 million per year. That's cheap compared to Probowlers on the open market at almost any other position. But the contracts that Evan Mathis, James Carpenter and Stefen Wisniewski signed are just as interesting. Given the way Baltimore's season is going, I think Osemele hits the market. I think losing Kubiak's run game is depressing the performance of the OL. And I think there is a decent chance you could sign Osemele for five million a year, which would be a similar contract to Carpenter's.

Even still, I would pay 7 million per year for Osemele and would probably go as high as 8.

I'd also be interested in Wisniewski, but not for big money. I feel like we're getting decent value from Lichtensteiger's deal, and if we're looking for an upgrade there, I'd prefer it to be a rookie contract.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Of course, releasing Lauvao would save the team 8 mil over the next two years total as well. 

[RemoveSnyder]

I'd prefer it to be a rookie contract.

 

Lots of options for Center in the draft. There's at least four to five guys I'd be comfortable with. 

 

Was going to post about Boehm the other night, but with so much channel flipping around, I only got a series or two of him. The take away, he moves well for a guy his size. He anchored well against Melvin Lewis, the DT from Kentucky, who I'm interested in seeing more of. But, I saw Boehm release on a screen and get downfield with all his 320 lbs. He's got the requisite size for a McC line. 

 

Agree on Osemele. 

[Going Commando]

Of course, releasing Lauvao would save the team 8 mil over the next two years total as well.

Cutting him if we spent big for someone like Osemele would be low-hanging fruit. But I don't see him getting cut unless we do make such a move in FA, or draft a stud that can start as a rookie. Or unless Spencer Long or Arie Kouandjio makes a huge leap forward. But the fact that both are apparently behind Josh LeRibeus on the depth chart doesn't argue for them being ready to push Lauvao off the roster.

This Lauvao injury is big for Spencer Long's career IMO. If LeRibeus is hurt, and Long can't beat out Tom Compton for the LG position, then I don't know when he's going to get a better opportunity to play than that. If he's ever going to show us anything, I think it has to be now.

Speaking of LeRib, having him as our only back up option at C is a big liability. A Lichtensteiger injury would be devastating because LeRib sucks.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Cutting him if we spent big for someone like Osemele would be low-hanging fruit. But I don't see him getting cut unless we do make such a move in FA, or draft a stud that can start as a rookie. Or unless Spencer Long or Arie Kouandjio makes a huge leap forward. But the fact that both are apparently behind Josh LeRibeus on the depth chart doesn't argue for them being ready to push Lauvao off the roster.

This Lauvao injury is big for Spencer Long's career IMO. If LeRibeus is hurt, and Long can't beat out Tom Compton for the LG position, then I don't know when he's going to get a better opportunity to play than that. If he's ever going to show us anything, I think it has to be now.

Speaking of LeRib, having him as our only back up option at C is a big liability. A Lichtensteiger injury would be devastating because LeRib sucks.

You're likely right about Lauvao not being cut unless someone else is signed in FA, thug myself I just wouldn't want to pay him 4 mil per year regardless (to be fair, he has looked a good deal better this season than last).

 

The depth in there is a big weakness, imo. LeRib is nothing, and you're totally right about Long. If he can't get in there, then he's probably just bad (I really disliked that draft choice int eh first place). I'm holding out hope for Kounandjio, but we need some help there otherwise.

[RemoveSnyder]

Jeebus LeReebus does suck. 

 

However, I can't lie, I do love the token "head-scratcher" guy who inexplicably is still on the roster. Without it, I wouldn't know what to do with myself. 

[Going Commando]

Was going to post about Boehm the other night, but with so much channel flipping around, I only got a series or two of him. The take away, he moves well for a guy his size. He anchored well against Melvin Lewis, the DT from Kentucky, who I'm interested in seeing more of. But, I saw Boehm release on a screen and get downfield with all his 320 lbs. He's got the requisite size for a McC line.

I've barely looked into the Center class yet, but Boehm definitely interests me. This is the only cut ups video of him I can find:

My initial impression of him is he does move shockingly well on his feet given his build. He's quick off the line and scoots to where he needs to be and lands his blocks well. He has pretty good quick twitch speed and functional strength, which seems to be a product of his wrestling background. He looks like a classic battler in the box and seems to block with good technique. He blocks with leverage and uses strong hands to control and reroute flowing defenders and players shooting his gaps.

On the negative side, he doesn't really have a great build. He looks a little short for an NFL lineman, so he might be a center only prospect. That's going to hurt his draft value. He also looks like he doesn't have great arm length, though that could be an illusion resulting from being so wide-bodied. And he definitely looks like he's carrying some bad weight.

But you're right, at 320, he's got interesting size and power. I also like how much experience he has as a starter.

I know you talked about him earlier in the thread, but what are your thoughts on Dan Voltz? To my eye he looks a lot taller and longer than Boehm even though they are listed at the same height. Do you see him as a C only prospect or an OG/C?

The reason I ask is because I think we'll be particularly interested in guys who can play both positions. We've got a fairly entrenched starting C in Kory L, but our back up situation is grim. LeRib is our only other C on the roster and he's not any good, plus he's a free agent this summer. So the earliest path to PT for any C we might draft could be at guard.

[The Consigliere]

Yeah, all that. If you can get an franchise QB, it's beyond a no-brainer to get one. But I don't see one this year.. Goff is the only one in the ballpark at the moment, imo.

 

If there isn't one, I would want to trade down (as well as trading a couple of vets) for picks in 17-18. Stockpile ammo for those drafts. Then continue to build a great D and running game. Maybe you find a sleeper QB to take a shot on in the draft later on.

 

Trade down would be entirely contingent on the players available, overall tiering, and value. I'm disinclined to trade down because we lack elite difference makers EVERYWHERE. Pretty much every team in the league that consistently contends for anything has elite difference makers. Patriots/Colts/Ravens/Broncos/Steelers/Packers/Saints/Falcons/Seahawks/49ers, all the teams that have consistently contended over the past decade or more have have elite difference makers, usually more than one. We've got zero.

 

To me that's a common denominator. It's exceedingly rare that teams make it despite lacking elite difference makers. As redskins fans we were spoiled by Gibbs, and neglected by the media, and so while we did have elite difference makers 25-30 years ago, and we knew it (Monk-Clark-Lachey-Jacoby-Grimm and Manley-Mann-Butz-Marshall-Green), the media didn't, and most of ours played non-glamour positions to boot so we just didn't notice as much the patteners that played out with other teams, and the single biggest primacy of all, that we were essentially the lone exception to during the eighties and nineties, and that was being elite without elite QB play. The only other team to consistently accomplish that goal the past thirty years was the Ravens, and unlike us, that liability cost the Ravens a ton of potential glory (what might have been 2001-2011 if the Ravens had had a Ben Roth, a Tom Brady, a Matt Ryan, a Peyton Manning, an Aaron Rodgers?). The fact that they got as far as they did was entirely related to a vast collection of elite difference makers on defense (guys like Reed, Lewis, Ngata, Suggs etc) and just enough talent to get by on offense until they ran into Manning, Brady, or Rivers or whatever.

 

To me, if all we do is collect depth, and solid starters, we'll be an inferior version to that, which won't accomplish anything.

 

I can see the point in trading down, but honestly I'd do it with round 2 or 3 picks, not our 1st rounder, because at the end of the day, if the top of round 1 is as good as it appears to be, and it appears to be fantastic, than we should go after help for the DL, CB, or OL with the pick and utilize later round picks for a trade down (I'm still waiting for us to trade for a futures pick, that would be huge, loading up on ammo to make a run at a QB as we get better, because if they sign a stop gap FA QB, and continue to build with McC kind of players we'll be priced out in terms of slotting, from being able to land a potential franchise QB in future drafts, and next spring's to boot.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I'm disinclined to trade down because we lack elite difference makers EVERYWHERE. Pretty much every team in the league that consistently contends for anything has elite difference makers. Patriots/Colts/Ravens/Broncos/Steelers/Packers/Saints/Falcons/Seahawks/49ers, all the teams that have consistently contended over the past decade or more have have elite difference makers, usually more than one. We've got zero.

 

Except none of that is really true. We have three players who are certainly elite at their positions (Williams, Kerrigan, Jackson). We have a couple of others with potential to get there.

 

How many do you count on those other teams, because here's what I'd say:

 

The Patriots- 3 (Brady, Gronk, McCourty)

Colts- 3 (Luck, Hilton, Costanzo)

Ravens- 1? (Flacco) Yanda? Does Suggs still count? 

Broncos- 5 (Manning, Thomas, Clady, Miller, Harris jr)

Steelers- 3 (Big Ben, Bell, Bryant)

Packers- 4 (Rodgers, Matthews, Lacy, Nelson)

Saints- 2 (Brees, Evans)

Falcons- 2 (Jones, Ryan)

Seahawks- 5 (Lynch, Graham, Sherman, Chancellor, Thomas)

49ers- Maybe Bowman?

 

Now, I understand you're not listing all those teams because of how good they are right now, but still that list comprises most of our current title contenders. If you add the next couple that come to mind (Arizona and Cincy) you're not going to find many elite players there either.

 

The point is, it's not the sheer number of superstars those teams have and we don't that separates Super Bowl contenders from also rans. What the title contenders have is something approaching a top-notch QB and plenty of good talent and depth throughout their roster. Which are two areas that I'm suggesting we do something about, rather than concentrating on one shiny toy at the top of the draft.

[Going Commando]

Throw Hightower and Collins onto the list for the Patriots after the seasons they had last year. Probably add Vollmer as well if you're comparing him only to other right tackles and not tackles in general.

But I agree, the thing that separates the Patriots from the mediocre teams of the NFL isn't that they have a lot more grade A players than everyone else. It's that they have the best leadership and football machine in place. Their QB-HC relationship is the best in the NFL and their superior leadership is the foundation for most of their success. Plus they do have a lot of good players.

But they didn't get any of them from drafting high. Gronk was a mid second rounder. Hightower and McCourty were late first rounders. Collins was a late second rounder. Jabaal Sheard was a free agency pick up. Brady was famously a sixth round compensatory pick.

They demonstrate you don't have to draft high to get top notch performers. It's actually a lot easier to hit big on draft picks when you have an excellent and stable system in place and all of your leadership questions answered. Bad franchises that continuously pick early in the draft waste most of that talent without ever building anything lasting.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Throw Hightower and Collins onto the list for the Patriots after the seasons they had last year. Probably add Vollmer as well if you're comparing him only to other right tackles and not tackles in general.

I really like Hightower and Collins as players, a lot. But I didn't include them because I think if you do, and particularly Hightower, then you have to at least debate Keenan Robinson. Collins is certainly a better player, but I'm not sure he's really on a different level, and Hightower vs Robinson is a fairly close match-up to me.

 

RTs are tricky in those kinds of discussions, and I should have put Bulaga on that list. But Vollmer has declined over the past couple of seasons, and I personally don't think of him as elite anymore. 

[illone]

For those of you interested in looking at some of the upcoming QB prospects, here is a decent article that covers 10 of them.

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/media_gallery/connor-cook-cardale-jones-jared-goff-cody-kessler-trevone-boykin-taking-early-look-qb-prospects-2016-nfl-draft#slide-5

 

The guy I like the most is Jared Goff.  I've been watching him play for a few years now.

[Gregpeck99]

Skins should be able to get one from the group consisting of Cook, Goff, Hogan or Kessler.

 

Each will look terrific in the B&G.

[The Consigliere]

Except none of that is really true. We have three players who are certainly elite at their positions (Williams, Kerrigan, Jackson). We have a couple of others with potential to get there.

 

How many do you count on those other teams, because here's what I'd say:

 

The Patriots- 3 (Brady, Gronk, McCourty)

Colts- 3 (Luck, Hilton, Costanzo)

Ravens- 1? (Flacco) Yanda? Does Suggs still count? 

Broncos- 5 (Manning, Thomas, Clady, Miller, Harris jr)

Steelers- 3 (Big Ben, Bell, Bryant)

Packers- 4 (Rodgers, Matthews, Lacy, Nelson)

Saints- 2 (Brees, Evans)

Falcons- 2 (Jones, Ryan)

Seahawks- 5 (Lynch, Graham, Sherman, Chancellor, Thomas)

49ers- Maybe Bowman?

 

Now, I understand you're not listing all those teams because of how good they are right now, but still that list comprises most of our current title contenders. If you add the next couple that come to mind (Arizona and Cincy) you're not going to find many elite players there either.

 

The point is, it's not the sheer number of superstars those teams have and we don't that separates Super Bowl contenders from also rans. What the title contenders have is something approaching a top-notch QB and plenty of good talent and depth throughout their roster. Which are two areas that I'm suggesting we do something about, rather than concentrating on one shiny toy at the top of the draft.

I don't disagree at all. I think the bulk of contending teams, particularly the most common team "types" have a couple of concepts in common, namely:

 

1. Franchise QB

2. Great or Good GM, and solid-good coach

3. an elite difference maker or two on defense, and the same on offense

4. Strong 22

5. Depth

 

I think that's basically the priority, I'd add that I actually still, mostly, agree with Al Davis' standard approach with tweaks, one of the rare instances of common knowledge from nearly 50 years ago being equally applicable to the modern game, but his priorities: Elite QB, Elite LT, Strong Edge Rusher, Shut Down corner, and a field stretching elite WR, and then fill in the rest mostly make sense. Today I'd say interior DT is HUGE, as well, I think the impact guys like Patrick Willis, Luke Kuechly, and Ray Lewis and the like have had on their teams suggests a massive underselling of how impactful a dominant team leading MLB can be, and of course Franchise QB is massive, I don't think difference makers matter as much at WR if you have a quality system in place, especially considering how many quality pass catchers, and I would agree w/some that I think today interior lineman matter a lot more than in the past (the latest examples being weak interior line play in Miami and Philly having completely wrecked what was supposed to be highly prolific offenses that have been amongst the leagues worst thus far). However regardless let me say this.

 

My point wasn't in getting us a new toy and I find that a kind of shallow reading of my post. My point was that the Redskins lack elite talent (we have literally zero, other than Silverback), as well as depth, as well as a strong 11 on both sides of the ball. All of these issues have to be addressed. Some have been, which is why we now have quality DL play, and an improved OL, and we've had a solid group of pass catchers going back a few years. That's all good, but the problem to me right now is we lack top end talent that can have a decisive impact on a game, particularly a playoff game, or a do or die regular season match, and we need that, as well as safety in numbers. I'm not asking for a shiny new toy, I'm asking for an elite difference maker with our top 10 pick, something we didn't draft last spring, and missed out on in every draft from '11-'15 overall. McC already showed how you can deal down and get a boat load of picks by trading down in round 3 alone, and then going from there. I'm fine with that, maybe doing it with the second as well, depending on who may fall towards the end of round 1 (quite a few guys fall most years, and last year was no different), but I can't really see the justification in trading out of the top 10, especially in the new cap ceiling based draft where the picks no longer carry such massive cap hits. If we can land a young, elite level DL, DB, or OL, that is more valuable to me, than two solid starters, especially considering we're getting them on a contract we can't get them on if we were pursuing one in free agency. The only cheap elite DL's/OL's/DB's are those that just got drafted.

 

My hope is that we land one of those guys, or are QB with our first rounder, if possible, trade up for, or draft at slot a top 5 QB if we like him with our round 2 pick, and then trade down to add extra day 3 picks and/or extra '17 picks.

[Rufus T Firefly]

That all sounds well and good, but you're basically ignoring all the points in the post you're quoting. Not to mention steve's.

[Going Commando]

Well, we're going to get that full try out of either Kouandjio or Long. Hopefully one of them takes the job and runs with it.

But if we see Tom Compton's ass out there lined up between Trent and Lichtensteiger, then that's a bad sign. Maybe not as much for Arie's future, but it'd be a death knell for Long's career here IMO.

[NIKKI8]

Skins should be able to get one from the group consisting of Cook, Goff, Hogan or Kessler.

 

Each will look terrific in the B&G.

I have only seen Hogan play twice but he looked awful. I'm sure you have a better idea about QB prospects than I do. is he really thought of as a good NFL prospect?

[The Consigliere]

I don't think the Patriots really demonstrate this at all. Brady was a once in literally 5000 or so opportunity. How often does that kind of thing happen? It appears three times in the past 36 years, in 1979 with Joe Montana, in 1999 with Kurt Warner, and in 2000 with Brady. I don't think pinning your hopes on a strategy that has happened three times in the past four+ decades, and zero times since 2000 makes a lot of sense.

 

Do they prove it's possible. Yes, but they also nearly came within inches of cutting Brady twice. He barely made their roster, and one of the few reasons why was his hunger/temperament/personality/approach, by the 2001 preseason, while I was talking smack about his offensive line to Brady's sister, Nancy, in a bar in San Leandro ("even if he gets in there, they'll get him killed), he was actually outplaying Drew, and winning over Bellichek's interest. It's worth nothing that it was one guy, ONE GUY, in the patriots organization, whose since passed away, who advocated so hard for Brady, that they decided to take a flyer on him despite a god awful combine, and iffy tape.

 

The patriots needed that guy, needed brady to just barely skim under the turk's scythe, and needed Bledsoe to get hurt just to get him an opportunity. We might not even know that bellichek was more than a great assistant if not for that.

 

I just don't view any of that as a reliable strategy for anything. That strategy requires you to have great ownership (we don't), great management (we never have had it, thought might finally have it now (ability is there, mental make up is a bit worrisome)), great coaching (laughable), a franchise QB (not present), and on and on. I think McC gives us the greatest chance in forever because he is a legit team builder period, and if he has a free hand, he can build the player base, for sure. But the rest isn't in place.

 

Pointing at the patriots is fine, you can get away with lesser players when you happen to have amongst the best ownership in the league, one of the best F.O.'s, the best coach, and the best QB for a decade and a half, then you can build a potentially amazing team, purely through teamwork.

 

But it's infinitely more likely the best team you build will be contingent on you acquiring a good or great F.O. (Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Seattle etc), land a great or darn good QB (all of the above), and then land some great difference making players at key positions, and land a ton of depth too (all of the above).

 

We now have McC, and may be building that great F.O. We won't make headway until that F.O. can find the franchise QB, and the key difference making players, and depth.

 

 

 

 

Throw Hightower and Collins onto the list for the Patriots after the seasons they had last year. Probably add Vollmer as well if you're comparing him only to other right tackles and not tackles in general.

But I agree, the thing that separates the Patriots from the mediocre teams of the NFL isn't that they have a lot more grade A players than everyone else. It's that they have the best leadership and football machine in place. Their QB-HC relationship is the best in the NFL and their superior leadership is the foundation for most of their success. Plus they do have a lot of good players.

But they didn't get any of them from drafting high. Gronk was a mid second rounder. Hightower and McCourty were late first rounders. Collins was a late second rounder. Jabaal Sheard was a free agency pick up. Brady was famously a sixth round compensatory pick.

They demonstrate you don't have to draft high to get top notch performers. It's actually a lot easier to hit big on draft picks when you have an excellent and stable system in place and all of your leadership questions answered. Bad franchises that continuously pick early in the draft waste most of that talent without ever building anything lasting.

I have only seen Hogan play twice but he looked awful. I'm sure you have a better idea about QB prospects than I do. is he really thought of as a good NFL prospect?

 

Definitely judge Hogan based on his own tape/youtube reviews whatever, definitely don't let him draft behind Luck's plaudits. Stanford had plenty of QB prospects over the years, heck we even drafted one of them, but none were NFL relevant as talents between Elway in the '83 draft, and Luck in'12 (maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I doubt it). I'm not betting on Hogan unless scouts I respect sign off. The fact that he's had the gig in Stnaford and put together some interesting numbers is irrelevant to me.

 

Hoping we get whomever looks the best amongst Goff, Jones, Hackenberg, Cook, Kessler etc assuming one is worthy of the selection.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I don't think the Patriots really demonstrate this at all. Brady was a once in literally 5000 or so opportunity. How often does that kind of thing happen?

I don't know who you're talking to or about at this point. My entire point that you responded to was to come up with a strategy to get the ammo to acquire a franchise QB and you seem to want to lecture me on the importance of getting a franchise QB.

[FrFan]

When was last time we selected a franchise QB in the draft ? (a long time ago)

Scot McCloughan and the NFL's Best and Worst Drafting GMs

He selected Nate Davis in 2009, Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers, and Russell Wilson. Let's hope he'll get us a QB in the category of the 2 later ones.

[Gregpeck99]

Hogan makes the cut because of size, experience playing in Stanford'd pro offense, recent performance against USC, and the fact he is from McLean and went to Gonzaga.