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Shooting At A Charleston SC Church (and now the Confederate Flag Tangent--MET)

samy316

By samy316
in The Tailgate

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

Posted
Posted

It's what it represents.   In some far fight racist circles, there is a massive reservoir of sympathy for Apartheid-era South Africa and Rhodesia.  It often goes hand in hand with neo-confederate views, for the same obvious reasons. 

 

 

My point was following LKB's comment ... how someone with a particular viewpoint now has immediate and unlimited access to the world's hate speech to ferment their sick mind.

 

Even the most expert Jeopardy contestants would be befuddled by the category 'Discarded African flags from the last century'.  :)

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted

My point was following LKB's comment ... how someone with a particular viewpoint now has immediate and unlimited access to the world's hate speech to ferment their sick mind.

 

Even the most expert Jeopardy contestants would be befuddled by the category 'Discarded African flags from the last century'.  :)

 

 

amateurs

 

qqmECO7.png

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Zguy28

Zguy28

Posted
Posted

I know.  I was making a joke.   I understand the eye for an eye sense of justice generally prevalent among religious conservatives.   I just disagree with it.  

Eye for an eye is just. However, at least amongst Christians, grace is also something to be exercised when possible. I'm not opposed to the death penalty if its the law of the land, but I'm not an advocate for it either. For me, that comes down to submission.

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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

Posted
Posted

It's what it represents.   In some far fight racist circles, there is a massive reservoir of sympathy for Apartheid-era South Africa and Rhodesia.  It often goes hand in hand with neo-confederate views, for the same obvious reasons.  Massive efforts to justify apartheid, demonize Nelson Mandela and so forth are made.  

 

 

(for Redskins3d's sake, let me make it clear that I am not talking about all conservatives, all southerners, or whatever)

 

I would say that sympathy for apartheid era South Africa is not even a particularly "Far" right-wing view. Free Republic is many things, but it's not quite Storm Front. And any thread about South Africa there is going to be filled with plenty of statements about how much better things were 30 years ago.

 

They also LOVE talking about the plight of white farmers in Zimbabwe.

 

And it's not just Free Republic.

 

Rush Limbaugh talks about Mugabe a shocking amount, and has called him Obama's role model.

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Redskins3D

Redskins3D

Posted
Posted

(for Redskins3d's sake, let me make it clear that I am not talking about all conservatives, all southerners, or whatever)

Atta boy.

Too bad our President isnt missing his chance to politicize a tragedy with gun control talk and race baiting.

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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

Posted
Posted

Atta boy.

Too bad our President isnt missing his chance to politicize a tragedy with gun control talk and race baiting.

 

God forbid he get frustrated when making a statement on the 14th mass shooting during his presidency.

 

And from my perspective, it was a weak statement. He clearly said that passing gun control is impossible at the moment but that some day, maybe, we'd wake the hell up as a nation and ask ourselves why this keeps happening.

Race baiting???

Seriously?

Like...

Um...

This is a race based crime bro.

 

You need to accept that racism in America ended sometime in 1977, except for reverse racism, which is actually worse than anything that ever occurred during Jim Crow.

 

Once you accept that, it all becomes clear.

 

(I've managed to stay away from this story for the most part today, but now I keep reading more and more and getting angrier and angrier at what a ridiculous country we live in. Just utterly ridiculous).

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

Posted
Posted

 

 

On the other hand, the fact that he is a loon doesn't mean he isn't an evil loon motivated by racism, racism that permeates our society.  Fox is rushing to try to deflect this into a "he's just insane and doesn't reflect society at all #notallwhitepeople" analysis because they don't want to talk about racism, except to deny that it exists (except of course for reverse racism and that old racist rascal Al Sharpton - that definitely exists).   

 

That's a bunch of bullcrap, but you can see it coming from all the usual conservatalk suspects.   If the white guy's a loon, it doesn't matter what motivated him.  It's meaningless.  Let's go back to talking about how all Muslims want to kill you.  They aren't loons - they are just evil.    

 

True. I am sure Fox will eventually pull out that old video of the two "black panther" guys outside of a voting booth to show us "real" domestic terrorism and intimidation while writing this off as a mentally unstable loon, not motivated by racism at all.

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Redskins3D

Redskins3D

Posted
Posted

God forbid he get frustrated when making a statement on the 14th mass shooting during his presidency.

And from my perspective, it was a weak statement. He clearly said that passing gun control is impossible at the moment but that some day, maybe, we'd wake the hell up as a nation and ask ourselves why this keeps happening.

He, for once, correctly said he doesn't have all the facts. How about he leave gun control out until he does. From "police acted stupidly" to "hands up don't shoot" he has constantly overstepped without knowing facts

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

Posted
Posted

and race baiting.

 

The transcript is below: please identify what specifically you are interpreting from the President's speech as race-baiting.

 

Good afternoon, everybody. This morning, I spoke with, and Vice President Biden spoke with, Mayor Joe Riley and other leaders of Charleston to express our deep sorrow over the senseless murders that took place last night.
 
Michelle and I know several members of Emanuel AME Church.  We knew their pastor, Reverend Clementa Pinckney, who, along with eight others, gathered in prayer and fellowship and was murdered last night. And to say our thoughts and prayers are with them and their families, and their community doesn’t say enough to convey the heartache and the sadness and the anger that we feel.
 
Any death of this sort is a tragedy. Any shooting involving multiple victims is a tragedy.
 
There is something particularly heartbreaking about the death happening in a place in which we seek solace and we seek peace, in a place of worship.
 
Mother Emanuel is, in fact, more than a church. This is a place of worship that was founded by African Americans seeking liberty. This is a church that was burned to the ground because its worshipers worked to end slavery. When there were laws banning all-black church gatherings, they conducted services in secret.  When there was a nonviolent movement to bring our country closer in line with our highest ideals, some of our brightest leaders spoke and led marches from this church’s steps. This is a sacred place in the history of Charleston and in the history of America. 
 
The FBI is now on the scene with local police, and more of the Bureau’s best are on the way to join them. The Attorney General has announced plans for the FBI to open a hate crime investigation. We understand that the suspect is in custody. And I’ll let the best of law enforcement do its work to make sure that justice is served.
 
Until the investigation is complete, I’m necessarily constrained in terms of talking about the details of the case. But I don’t need to be constrained about the emotions that tragedies like this raise. I’ve had to make statements like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times.
 
We don’t have all the facts, but we do know that, once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. 
 
Now is the time for mourning and for healing. But let’s be clear: 
 
At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency. And it is in our power to do something about it.
 
I say that recognizing the politics in this town foreclose a lot of those avenues right now. But it would be wrong for us not to acknowledge it. And at some point it’s going to be important for the American people to come to grips with it, and for us to be able to shift how we think about the issue of gun violence collectively.
 
The fact that this took place in a black church obviously also raises questions about a dark part of our history. This is not the first time that black churches have been attacked. And we know that hatred across races and faiths pose a particular threat to our democracy and our ideals.
 
The good news is I am confident that the outpouring of unity and strength and fellowship and love across Charleston today, from all races, from all faiths, from all places of worship indicates the degree to which those old vestiges of hatred can be overcome. That, certainly, was Dr. King’s hope just over 50 years ago, after four little girls were killed in a bombing in a black church in Birmingham, Alabama.
 
He said they lived meaningful lives, and they died nobly. “They say to each of us,” Dr. King said, “black and white alike, that we must substitute courage for caution. They say to us that we must be concerned not merely with [about] who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced the murderers. Their death says to us that we must work passionately and unrelentingly for the realization of the American Dream.
 
“And if one will hold on, he will discover that God walks with him, and that God is able to lift you from the fatigue of despair to the buoyancy of hope, and transform dark and desolate valleys into sunlit paths of inner peace.”
 
Reverend Pinckney and his congregation understood that spirit.  Their Christian faith compelled them to reach out not just to members of their congregation, or to members of their own communities, but to all in need.  They opened their doors to strangers who might enter a church in search of healing or redemption. 
 
Mother Emanuel church and its congregation have risen before –- from flames, from an earthquake, from other dark times -– to give hope to generations of Charlestonians. 
 
And with our prayers and our love, and the buoyancy of hope, it will rise again now as a place of peace.
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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

Posted
Posted

Here is a personal anecdote of where we are as a country.

 

I will drive past four (4!) shooting ranges on my way home tonight, because I live in Texas.

 

Meanwhile, her therapist, her counselor, my wife, and I all agree that my oldest daughter probably needs long-term inpatient psychiatric treatment - which costs out of pocket about $15 grand a month if there were any facilities with available beds, which there typically are not.

 

So....we're doing just great as a country.

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Lombardi's_kid_brother

Lombardi's_kid_brother

Posted
Posted

"The fact that this took place in a black church obviously also raises questions"

I didn't think it was necessary, but obviously this isn't the first time I'm not entitled to my opinion.

 

You are correct.

 

A white dude who once wore a pro-apartheid flag shooting up a black church raises no ****ing questions at all.

 

None.

 

Sharpton! Jesse Jackson!

 

Now, those guys are the real racists.

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BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

Posted
Posted

"The fact that this took place in a black church obviously also raises questions"

I didn't think it was necessary, but obviously this isn't the first time I'm not entitled to my opinion.

...um

Are we not talking about a mass murder in a black church cuz if not, I must be hallucinating

Like he literally stated the facts of the situation

There is no question if race was a factor. At all.

If you dislike Obama politically, super but that was super uber duper reach there bud.

Holy ****

Like I can't stand Ray Lewis but if Ray Lewis tells me the sky is blue, I can't call him an idiot because I don't like him

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

Posted
Posted

"The fact that this took place in a black church obviously also raises questions"

I didn't think it was necessary, but obviously this isn't the first time I'm not entitled to my opinion.

 

Rather than play the victim card, you could just admit that you are entirely wrong on your race-baiting comment.

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Redskins3D

Redskins3D

Posted
Posted

...um

Are we not talking about a mass murder in a black church cuz if not, I must be hallucinating

Like he literally stated the facts of the situation

There is no question if race was a factor. At all.

If you dislike Obama politically, super but that was super uber duper reach there bud.

Holy ****

Like I can't stand Ray Lewis but if Ray Lewis tells me the sky is blue, I can't call him an idiot because I don't like him

So what questions exactly are raised?

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BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

Posted
Posted

So what questions exactly are raised?

Why do ppl still have such hate in their hearts to the point where they will slaughter innocent ppl in a church?

You know...like why in 2015 are ppl still being slaughtered for having more melanin in their bodies?

Seems like a quite simple question.

Why are you so terrified of the concept of racism still being a living thing ?

Had the guy shot ppl of every race and Obama decided to focus on a black victim...maybe you'd have a case

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Redskins3D

Redskins3D

Posted
Posted

Why do ppl still have such hate in their hearts to the point where they will slaughter innocent ppl in a church?

You know...like why in 2015 are ppl still being slaughtered for having more melanin in their bodies?

Seems like a quite simple question.

Why are you so terrified of the concept of racism still being a living thing ?

Why are people being slaughtered, period? We don't have to divided the question up by race. Obama didn't say, "poor white children" after sandyhook.
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