Expected win totals know that FA (the important part) is finished as well as the draft?

[SpacePenguin]

Well, I can understand some that still have their doubts. I can understand that you want to see it on the field first and the old "we've seen the hype before." I too, want to see the results on the field. I can't sit here with a straight face and tell you that the team is ready to compete for the division, conference or Super Bowl. They aren't. Scot still has work to do for the next couple of seasons.

What I can't understand is some fans selling the team short and only predicting 4-5 wins.  We've won 3 and 4 games the last couple of years. I feel like predicting anything short of at least 6 or 7 wins is a slap in the face to what Scot has done so far in the offseason. We finally have a guy who has a particular philosophy of what he wants his team to be. You CANNOT possibly compare him to anything we've had in the past, because quite frankly, (Gibbs included, bless him for trying), we have not had a direction since Bobby Beathard retired.

I'm not asking you to predict 12 wins and a SB trip. All I'm asking is that you let go of your total doubt and let a little hope creep in for what Scot has accomplished so far. You don't have to drink the Kool-Aid, just acknowledge that the drink is there if you get thirsty and you can take a sip if you need to.

For me, I'm predicting 7 to 9 wins. I know, a little more than optimistic, but like Scot said, we need to change the losing culture that has permeateed the organization and fanbase.We kind of look like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from 1977-until Dungy arrived. They had a 30+ year culture of losing that was hard to shake. Scot is trying to reverse that. I'm on board with what he is doing.I'm tired of being a miserable fan. You should be too.

Maybe some people just think that even IF the Skins new GM is truly the unquestionable savior of the franchise (and the jury is still definitely out on that one), then it would still take more than one offseason to see much of a turnaround in the W/L column, given the terrible state of the organization.

Sharing such an opinion does not make one a "miserable fan". I do, and I'm actually extremely happy right now!

[Stefanskins]

I'm going 10 - 6

[Mr. Sinister]

7-9

[actualone]

I say 19-0 and Dallas sucks t-shirts for free at every home game.

[pjfootballer]

Maybe some people just think that even IF the Skins new GM is truly the unquestionable savior of the franchise (and the jury is still definitely out on that one), then it would still take more than one offseason to see much of a turnaround in the W/L column, given the terrible state of the organization.

Sharing such an opinion does not make one a "miserable fan". I do, and I'm actually extremely happy right now!

 

Like I said, I have no problem with fans saying "the jury is still out" on the team and Scot.  I guess my point is, we've won an average of 3-5 games most seasons (sans 2012), yet I see fans still saying 4-5 wins.  If some would say 6-8 wins, I could accept that. By saying we'll only win 3-5 games again is basically saying we've done absolutely "nothing" in the offseason. I'm a little more optimistic as I've said 7 to 9 wins.

 

I think I said in my post that it's going to take more than one offseason for us to see a significant change, but that doesn't mean you won't see a gradual change in the first year. Scot has his work cut out for him, but I think he's finally put the brakes on and is now trying to grind the gears to put it in reverse and turn the thing around.

 

To me, predicting the same old, same old is miserable. Not saying that you are one of them, but why bother if you don't have at least a shred of hope that this season will improve from last season.  The organization and fanbase really need to change the culture of losing. I feel like we're the Buccaneers before their Super Bowl.

[skins island connection]

 hmmm....Good question.

 

ok, I woke up Jessica Biel and asked her what she thought; she told me to let her sleep some more, so i'm thinking 6-10.

 

But then again, since i'm already living in fantasy island, why not 16-0 !!!

[Cliffmark1]

I can see 10 games. The defense will be very good. We have a lot of good players. Secondary will be better than last year.

What are you talking about the defense being very good?  Why do you think that?

 

I look at our defense and think we will be torched repeatedly.  Our CBs would not start for another team except maybe D Hall and he'd be a third stringer now.  Really we have such big holes at certain positions you could almost predict that any team that wants to beat us can find a way. 

[Mr. Sinister]

What are you talking about the defense being very good? Why do you think that?

I look at our defense and think we will be torched repeatedly. Our CBs would not start for another team except maybe D Hall and he'd be a third stringer now. Really we have such big holes at certain positions you could almost predict that any team that wants to beat us can find a way.

Did you just come out of cryo stasis or something?

[Cliffmark1]

I voted to stay the same @ 4 wins.

 

Merely obtaining a gaggle of Draft choices (Draft over-rated) does not change relative strength in NFC because Skins still arguably have the least efficient QB ... and until we see it ... a not too much improved Defense.

 

Skins 2 or 3 years away and 2 or 3 players away ... one of which is (gulp) an elite QB.

 

Just look at the teams that made the Playoffs last year!

I think we are like 2 or 3 entire position groups away, not just players.  CB SS interior OL arguably QB and others.  It's hard to argue that we have depth in any positional group except WR. 

Did you just come out of cryo stasis or something?

That's not an argument, a personal attack not an argument. Tell me why our defense is better?  We picked up a FS? 

[Mr. Sinister]

That's not an argument

Should I take this as a yes?

[Cliffmark1]

If we get quality coaching and RG3 is used properly; we win 11 games.....otherwise; We'll go 6-10

Do you think RG3 will allow himself to be used properly or will we see him dictate plays he can and can't run?

Should I take this as a yes?

you should take it as you don't have the ability to tell me any arguments to support your position. 

[Rodriggo]

4-12

 

Show me something different because honestly I believe it's Gruden's and Griffin's last season here.

 

Show me the staff and RG3 can work together and run some semblance of a coherent gameplan or a backup QB that is ready for primetime.

 

Show me a consistent running game.

 

Show me a special teams that improves out of the bottom 1/32nd of the league.

 

Show me a defense that can dial in stops when it absolutely needs to against good to elite QBs.

 

Otherwise it's another losing year.

 

At least we got Scot to hang our hopes on.

[Mr. Sinister]

 

That's not an argument, a personal attack not an argument. Tell me why our defense is better?  We picked up a FS? 

 

That wasn't a personal attack. "You are a moron" would qualify as a personal attack. So we upgrade our entire defensive line, pick up some promising draft picks, pick up a SS and a FS, and a corner who finished the season strong  last year, allowing 37 receptions with 73 targets, holding QB's to a 66 passer rating, pairing him with Bashaud Breeland, who showed flashes last year when he was forced into the starting lineup.

 

Yet all you see is a FS acquisition? Interesting. I'd actually like to know how you formed the conclusion that with all these additions, the D will be "Torched repeatedly". I'm sure they won't morph into the '85 Bears  in one offseason, but torched repeatedly? That's like the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

Watcha got?

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Well, I can understand some that still have their doubts. I can understand that you want to see it on the field first and the old "we've seen the hype before." I too, want to see the results on the field. I can't sit here with a straight face and tell you that the team is ready to compete for the division, conference or Super Bowl. They aren't. Scot still has work to do for the next couple of seasons.

What I can't understand is some fans selling the team short and only predicting 4-5 wins. We've won 3 and 4 games the last couple of years. I feel like predicting anything short of at least 6 or 7 wins is a slap in the face to what Scot has done so far in the offseason. We finally have a guy who has a particular philosophy of what he wants his team to be. You CANNOT possibly compare him to anything we've had in the past, because quite frankly, (Gibbs included, bless him for trying), we have not had a direction since Bobby Beathard retired.

I'm not asking you to predict 12 wins and a SB trip. All I'm asking is that you let go of your total doubt and let a little hope creep in for what Scot has accomplished so far. You don't have to drink the Kool-Aid, just acknowledge that the drink is there if you get thirsty and you can take a sip if you need to.

For me, I'm predicting 7 to 9 wins. I know, a little more than optimistic, but like Scot said, we need to change the losing culture that has permeateed the organization and fanbase. We kind of look like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from 1977-until Dungy arrived. They had a 30+ year culture of losing that was hard to shake. Scot is trying to reverse that. I'm on board with what he is doing. I'm tired of being a miserable fan. You should be too.

Pj

How the hell are you so positive about the Skins and the complete opposite of the Caps? Lol

Granted, I'm down on both but still

[skinny21]

I think we are like 2 or 3 entire position groups away, not just players. CB SS interior OL arguably QB and others. It's hard to argue that we have depth in any positional group except WR.

That's not an argument, a personal attack not an argument. Tell me why our defense is better? We picked up a FS?

So SS and interior oline aren't really what I would call "positions groups". Unless maybe you meant safety (FS and SS) and guards (left and right)?

I'm guessing Culliver doesn't do it for you...

As for "hard to argue" that we have depth at any group besides WR - it's funny but I don't see all that much depth at WR. Two good starters, yes, but depth? We'd have to count the potential from Grant and our DPs and/or Roberts. Not too hard to argue that we now have depth at dline with Baker and RJF in rotation. Same with OLB and Preston Smith. Same with rb with Jones added. QB has decent depth. Heck, even everyone's favorite player to ridicule, Niles Paul is good depth for Reed (though we desperately need a TE that can block his butt off).

Anyway, I don't know man. You may well be right about the defense... struggling? But I'm not really getting your arguments.

[pjfootballer]

Pj

How the hell are you so positive about the Skins and the complete opposite of the Caps? Lol

Granted, I'm down on both but still

Different levels. I know the Skins have been garbage for 15 years, but the Caps have been contenders for the cup and haven't been out of the 2nd round in 10 years. I'd probably be the same with the Skins if I knew we were a contender. If the Caps get by the Rangers tonight, my faith will go up. Otherwise it's a rerun of past years.  I always have confidence in the Caps having a great regular season, but not the playoffs.  I'm just as hard on the Wizards because I believe they have 50+ win talent, yet have not done it in 35+ years.

[pjfootballer]

4-12

 

Show me something different because honestly I believe it's Gruden's and Griffin's last season here.

 

Show me the staff and RG3 can work together and run some semblance of a coherent gameplan or a backup QB that is ready for primetime.

 

Show me a consistent running game.

 

Show me a special teams that improves out of the bottom 1/32nd of the league.

 

Show me a defense that can dial in stops when it absolutely needs to against good to elite QBs.

 

Otherwise it's another losing year.

 

At least we got Scot to hang our hopes on.

 

Yes, they need to "show" something. But this is what I'm talking about. Four wins?  You don't think that the "Scot" factor would be good for at least 2 more wins?  Like I said, I'm OK with fans saying between 6 and 8, but anything below that to me is just fans trying to not set themselves up for another disappointing year and so they don't get their hopes up. 

[Probos]

The most important position is still completely up in the air.  So, I'll say 6 wins but the team will be more competitive. 

[skins island connection]

Yes, they need to "show" something. But this is what I'm talking about. Four wins?  You don't think that the "Scot" factor would be good for at least 2 more wins?  Like I said, I'm OK with fans saying between 6 and 8, but anything below that to me is just fans trying to not set themselves up for another disappointing year and so they don't get their hopes up. 

 

 I can relate to Rodriggo's feelings; we're not even sure the 'Scot' factor will be a good thing. Yea, we addressed some issues plaguing the team, but there is as much mental as physical issues this team has to overcome.

 

 The attitudes of some players [pregame] taunting, talking smack, then once the game starts they get driven like Ms.Daisy.

 The biggest challenge for Gruden/Scot will be getting the proper type players needed and maximizing their potential. Thus far it hasn't worked out in the QB dept, so until they can get that corrected, whether its Griffin, Cousins, or someone else, its a wait-and-see approach. My belief is that the team will go as far as the QB training has progressed.

[pjfootballer]

Ok, but you guys have to let me call some guys in this thread out when we get win #6.

[Laron Burgundy]

Some pundits are prognosticating us as a bottom 3 team.  Vegas has us as the 2nd worst team.  It's going to be tough sledding, but it's a make or break year for the HC and QB, so it either gets done or they're gone.

[Cliffmark1]

So SS and interior oline aren't really what I would call "positions groups". Unless maybe you meant safety (FS and SS) and guards (left and right)?

I'm guessing Culliver doesn't do it for you...

As for "hard to argue" that we have depth at any group besides WR - it's funny but I don't see all that much depth at WR. Two good starters, yes, but depth? We'd have to count the potential from Grant and our DPs and/or Roberts. Not too hard to argue that we now have depth at dline with Baker and RJF in rotation. Same with OLB and Preston Smith. Same with rb with Jones added. QB has decent depth. Heck, even everyone's favorite player to ridicule, Niles Paul is good depth for Reed (though we desperately need a TE that can block his butt off).

Anyway, I don't know man. You may well be right about the defense... struggling? But I'm not really getting your arguments.

imo TE is not an area of strength. you are listing positions as solid that just arent again imo starting caliber units. qb isnt. we dont have a legit starter. we dont have a shut down corner. our ss and fs wouldnt start on many teams. the dline as a whole has under produced in the past and looks lost as a 3-4 i expect us to play a lot base 4 because they suck as a 3-4. redskins have added but also lost, for example orakpo and some of our other players who were solid on d so i dont neccesarily know if potroast upgrades the whole dline.. this is barely an nfl starting roster, what other nfl team would field our players and coach? maybe the jaguars or browns?

the rest of our division has added too and in many ways they have out managed out coached out drafted and out executed us at almost every level of the game. some of our new draftees have had knee/leg injuries so we will need to see how they hold up before counting groups as strong because of them. so no i am not thinking we are a few players away from a sb and unfortunately the groups we do need help with are really important. you can win a sb with a poor te group. you cant without a good defensive backfield but yeah i guess we could say rb may be ok and olb could be considered ok though im not sure its an upgrade. im not really sure if you can bank on a huge improvement from olb.

i mean these guys also have to be coached. we upgraded our oline coach but im not even sure jay is a head coach and i guess defense has to have a better coach but still not super excited like i would be for a wade. the way jay handled rg3 makes me think there are issues in terms of jay.

[Cliffmark1]

That wasn't a personal attack. "You are a moron" would qualify as a personal attack. So we upgrade our entire defensive line, pick up some promising draft picks, pick up a SS and a FS, and a corner who finished the season strong last year, allowing 37 receptions with 73 targets, holding QB's to a 66 passer rating, pairing him with Bashaud Breeland, who showed flashes last year when he was forced into the starting lineup.

Yet all you see is a FS acquisition? Interesting. I'd actually like to know how you formed the conclusion that with all these additions, the D will be "Torched repeatedly". I'm sure they won't morph into the '85 Bears in one offseason, but torched repeatedly? That's like the opposite end of the spectrum.

Watcha got?

we have 7 wins in two years or so in a large part due to the inability to make key stops and curtail long plays. we also lost key defenders along with those additions. other teams drafted too, perhaps better than we did. i dont think we are a top ten d. likely bottom 10 against pass.

id love to be wrong about this but if i were to bet, the pass d will be toasted. repeatedly giving up 30 ish ppg, while the o puts up something like 21 points a game on average.

[skinny21]

imo TE is not an area of strength. you are listing positions as solid that just arent again imo starting caliber units. qb isnt. we dont have a legit starter. we dont have a shut down corner. our ss and fs wouldnt start on many teams. the dline as a whole has under produced in the past and looks lost as a 3-4 i expect us to play a lot base 4 because they suck as a 3-4. redskins have added but also lost, for example orakpo and some of our other players who were solid on d so i dont neccesarily know if potroast upgrades the whole dline.. this is barely an nfl starting roster, what other nfl team would field our players and coach? maybe the jaguars or browns?

the rest of our division has added too and in many ways they have out managed out coached out drafted and out executed us at almost every level of the game. some of our new draftees have had knee/leg injuries so we will need to see how they hold up before counting groups as strong because of them. so no i am not thinking we are a few players away from a sb and unfortunately the groups we do need help with are really important. you can win a sb with a poor te group. you cant without a good defensive backfield but yeah i guess we could say rb may be ok and olb could be considered ok though im not sure its an upgrade. im not really sure if you can bank on a huge improvement from olb.

i mean these guys also have to be coached. we upgraded our oline coach but im not even sure jay is a head coach and i guess defense has to have a better coach but still not super excited like i would be for a wade. the way jay handled rg3 makes me think there are issues in terms of jay.

I actually agree with a lot in this post. My TE and QB comment was about depth though (not starters). And yes, we don't have a shutdown corner, but I believe your comment was that our corners wouldn't start on another team.... I think Culliver absolutely would.

Not sure why you bring up our dline "in the past" since we've added two new starters and the third was added last year. And one of those starters is (finally) regarded as a good NT for the 3-4. Baker pushed back to rotational de/NT along with RJF should give us some good depth there. Here's hoping they work out.

Re. coaching, I have some big concerns as well. At least Barry has some experience in the Wade Phillips system (Wade>Pagano>Barry).

[adamyesme1111]

This assumes no rediscovery of his 2012 form for RGIII:

 

Ceiling: 7-9

 

Expected: 6-10

 

Floor: 4-12

 

Vegas set our over/under total at 6, and Vegas knows what it's doing on a macro scale. 5 is a bit too low, 7 may be a bit too high, hence the six. 

 

if RGIII were to find his 2012 form, the ceiling would be 11-5, but so far that seems highly unlikely. 

 

 

 

 

Not that I disagree with your assessment, but Vegas does not know football.  Odds are simply set by where people are placing their money.  I don't know if I would say people know what they are doing.

 

Anyway, between 5-8 wins.  Like most people say if RG3 shows he can quarterback well in a non option scheme then 10-6.