Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 The laziest game of NFL fandom is going through your draft history and saying, "We should have picked THAT guy." I'm not doing that. I don't believe the draft is a crap shoot; some teams clearly do it better than others - at least in certain windows. But I don believe that the draft is a volume enterprise. The draft is important not because it gives you talent, but because it gives you cheap talent that you control. In a capped league - with, frankly, a ridiculously low salary cap - the draft supplies the good teams with the young underpriced talent that provides depth. Depth the Redskins never have for reasons that will soon become clear. I've never been a fan of DeAngelo Hall. And that may be in part becuse I've never really seen what we've had behind DeAngelo Hall. But all teams need to be prepared for the loss of at least one starter on offense and defense each year. And in this hyper-vigilant, litigious era of the NFL, you are going to lose players for games at a pretty good clip most of the time. Any kind of hard hit to the head is prpobably going to end a players' night in 2014. That was not the case even three years ago. So....the game seems to be to give yourself lots of cheap options. And the best place to do that is the draft. But the Skins - seemingly as a matter of strategy - have intentionally limited their options over the years. In the last ten drafts, we have had: 7 picks in the first round 7 picks in the second round (three of those in one draft). 7 picks in the third round 7 picks in the fourth round 10 picks in the fifth round In comparsion, in that same period, San Francisco has had 12 picks in the first round 7 picks in the second round 11 picks in the third round 10 picks in the fourth round 9 picks in the fifth round It's not that the 49ers are necessarily great drafters. They've blown plenty of those picks. It's just that they give themselves a ton of chances to get it right. And, moreover, they are able to fill out their roster with young, cheap talent that is put in competitive situations. Seriously, if you are a third round pick for the Skins, odds are that you are entering camp as the only young option at your position. And you should be a lock to play on special teams unless you develop a visible limp. Want to know why are special teams have been a debacle for years? There's your answer. Want to know why any injury is cataclysmic? There's your answer. Want to know why Polumbus is locked in at right tackle? There is your answer. Want to know why that cap penalty was a death blow? There is your answer. We pay a premium for lower-end talent. Take away the flexibility to do even that and the roster becames a total disaster. Other teams are paying mediocre guys on rookie deals to fill backup roles. We pay mediocre guys on their second contract. And you can't point a finger anywhere. This has been an overall organizational philosophy since at least the beginning of the second Gibbs era. (Gibbs seemed really eager to get veterans off the free agency market since you knew so much about them as players. However, he never seemed to fully get his brain around the idea of the cap). Shanahan seemed to be taking baby steps away from this, but still made the RGIII trade. (And I'm not criticizing that trade. Just pointing out that we might have a decent backup cornerback without it). By the way, I actually like our first round picks over the years. I may actually like them more than San Francisco's. Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, and Vernon Davis are standouts, but I think if Trent Williams and Ryan Kerrigan played in San Francisco, they would be seen as absolute superstars too. But the 49ers are able to surround those centerpieces with a ton of options. We leave ours alone surrounded by wasteland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyansRangers Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think you have vaild points but before any of that happens the franchise needs stability... In those years you mentioned, we have gone through many coaching changes, philosophies, playbooks, GM's, position and position coaches.. Drafting a 2nd end talent is useless if you don't have any stable platform for him to grow. I have been a Snyder Apologist in the past but I am done with him and his fake Structure of Management. Yes drafting could be better but hell 1 coach for 7 years training our draft picks is more important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 And if you do hit on an important piece the nature of the NFL contracts and things like the franchise tags allow you to control that player longer term at a discount in most cases. In most cases, if there are still years on the contract, the players will forsake potential bigger money for longer term security. But you don't have that ability, unless you find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think you have vaild points but before any of that happens the franchise needs stability... In those years you mentioned, we have gone through many coaching changes, philosophies, playbooks, GM's, position and position coaches.. Drafting a 2nd end talent is useless if you don't have any stable platform for him to grow. I have been a Snyder Apologist in the past but I am done with him and his fake Structure of Management. Yes drafting could be better but hell 1 coach for 7 years training our draft picks is more important I don't buy that. There was no more stable franchise in the league when Gibbs was here. He had a five year deal. He said he was staying five years. He could have molested a labradoodle on the 50 yard line and Snyder would not have fired him. Everyone assumed he would stay five years and then give the reigns to Williams....or stay five years...sign for three more....and then give the reigns to someone he chose. And we gave away draft picks like Halloween candy under him. The Shanahan Era seemed relatively stable until it all went to **** during the latter half of last year. He certainly wasn't acting like he was in danger of getting fired. And the same thing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenDavis Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Yep that pretty much sums it up. No depth anywhere. A few studs but surrounded by trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 And if you do hit on an important piece the nature of the NFL contracts and things like the franchise tags allow you to control that player longer term at a discount in most cases. In most cases, if there are still years on the contract, the players will forsake potential bigger money for longer term security. But you don't have that ability, unless you find them. This is true. There is no reason - other than choice - for a team to NOT have a player through the end of the second contract. If you draft a player, you basically have them for 7 to 9 years if you so choose. And generally below market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Between the Sean Gilbert and Ricky Williams trades we had 5 1st rounders in 2 years, as well as 4 3rds and a mix of other extras. We blew it on Brad Johnson, Lavar [for whom we traded 2 of the 1sts], Samuels, Bailey, and Jansen. Everyone else busted, and Arrington swallowed up so much cap space we never got a decent DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I really don't think it matters who we draft. If we swapped our roster with Seattle, we'd still find a way to suck. We are just a tainted franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Between the Sean Gilbert and Ricky Williams trades we had 5 1st rounders in 2 years, as well as 4 3rds and a mix of other extras. We blew it on Brad Johnson, Lavar [for whom we traded 2 of the 1sts], Samuels, Bailey, and Jansen. Everyone else busted, and Arrington swallowed up so much cap space we never got a decent DL. Hold on....... You are really complaining about Brad Johnson (the best QB we've had since Rypien who later won a Super Bowl), an All Pro linebacker (who, granted, did not live up to the hype but was still pretty good), two All Pro tackles, and an All Pro CB. If Samuels had played on a team that made the Super Bowl, he would be in the Hall of Fame. Bailey may make the Hall of Fame. Seriously.....how did we not win three Super Bowls after that hall? Like I want you to imagine Bill Parcells being hired before 2000 and being handed a steady QB who never turned the ball over, two top flight tackles, a havoc wrecking OLB, and an all-world CB....and make all of them (save Johnson) under 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Between the Sean Gilbert and Ricky Williams trades we had 5 1st rounders in 2 years, as well as 4 3rds and a mix of other extras. We blew it on Brad Johnson, Lavar [for whom we traded 2 of the 1sts], Samuels, Bailey, and Jansen. Everyone else busted, and Arrington swallowed up so much cap space we never got a decent DL. We don't have picks and when we do have picks we suck at picking players We are the sorriest lump of **** franchise in all of pro sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 It is the Redskins way to not value the draft. It has been the same forever. Trading draft picks for players goes back to George Allen. We have always valued free agents more. Look at the man in my avatar. Wilbur Marshall. Not only was he the first player to leave his team through free agency in 11 years. It also cost us TWO first round draft picks to sign him. It didnt matter then because we had a stacked team and were winning world championships every few years. It matters now because we have little talent. There has to be a complete change by the front office in the value of draft picks. Until that happens you can kiss being a consistent winner goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 bailey is a sure shot HOF. and chris samuels will go eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyansRangers Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 My point was out drafting strategy changed every few years with diff coaches and GM and front office people.. No team can be successful when there is no consistency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 One of the worst things we did was not hoard the picks from the Ricky Williams trade. Never understood why we gave up a boatload of picks to move up 5 spots. I mean Champ was great, but we could have built an awesome foundation off Ditka's stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 It doesn't matter who we draft. It's the people that are making the choices that have been bad. We need a football GM, need an upgrade at the scouting department, and player development. One thing I've noticed over the course of this organization is the failure of player development. This leads to releasing the so-called young, cheap players in favor of FA. Guys like Cerrato, Gibbs, Shanny, and Allen aren't knowing for their GM abilities. Gibbs 1.0 was great because he is a great coach and Bobby Beathard was the one who brought in the talent. We need a legit GM, which Snyder never had and I don't think he'll ever get one either. So we will be stuck in this situation until the next owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 So lets talk about this. As for keeping guys you draft below market value, how about Orakpo? We are really getting our money's worth there. He couldn't beat Polumbus downhill 2008. Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly, and whatsisface We just suck. We can't even do the right things by accident. We all know exactly what is wrong with this franchise. Enjoy it for the next 40 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 One of the worst things we did was not hoard the picks from the Ricky Williams trade. Never understood why we gave up a boatload of picks to move up 5 spots. I mean Champ was great, but we could have built an awesome foundation off Ditka's stupidity. Once again, we did. After '99 we had: Johnson - Age 31 but with very little wear on the tires Davis - Age 26 Bailey - Age 22 Lavar - Age 22 Samuels - Age 23 Jansen - Age 24 Barber - Age 25 And we had some interesting young pieces like Alexander, Thrash, and Kalu. (Half this team seemed to play in NFC title games for the next five years with Philly). That was a team set up to be loaded for a decade. It was missing a big play receiver (Westbrook was not that guy) and a big run-stopping defensive tackle. The rest could have been filled in with mid-level talent and still been fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bay Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 There's been more of an emphasis on the draft since Shanny took over. 2010: 6 2011: 12 2012: 9 2013: 7 2014: 8 It's just what you do with it that counts. We've had problems every way we've done it in the last 20+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 We just suck. We can't even do the right things by accident. We all know exactly what is wrong with this franchise. Enjoy it for the next 40 years Yep, I'm convinced that we will never see another NFL championship again. If an 8 year old Redskin fan lives to be 100, then maybe, just maybe they'll have a shot a seeing a year of glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 So lets talk about this. As for keeping guys you draft below market value, how about Orakpo? Orakpo is not a star, but I think he's okay. I would not have paid him franchise money, but we do because we are the Redskins. I also think that if you drop him on Seattle, he has 12 sacks every year and Pete Carrol slaps his butt 14 times a day. Also, you seem like you are in a good place today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Once again, we did. After '99 we had: Johnson - Age 31 but with very little wear on the tires Davis - Age 26 Bailey - Age 22 Lavar - Age 22 Samuels - Age 23 Jansen - Age 24 Barber - Age 25 And we had some interesting young pieces like Alexander, Thrash, and Kalu. (Half this team seemed to play in NFC title games for the next five years with Philly). That was a team set up to be loaded for a decade. It was missing a big play receiver (Westbrook was not that guy) and a big run-stopping defensive tackle. The rest could have been filled in with mid-level talent and still been fine. Seriously, if Trent Green was re-signed, you could have drafted that run stopping DT (Booger McFarland in the '99 draft) The late 90s were rough on WR talent coming out of the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyansRangers Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 We took a DE with 11 sacks in a 4-3 and made him an ineffective OLB because we switched coaches again and schemes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bay Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 We took a DE with 11 sacks in a 4-3 and made him an ineffective OLB because we switched coaches again and schemes Talking about Andre Carter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 The late 90s were rough on WR talent coming out of the draft Yea....that was a weird era. Especially when compared to now when every team seems to have one if not two stud receivers. We were convinced Terry Glenn was good for half a decade for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggosMohawk Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 We do get the 1st rounders right, but those are the easy picks. Amerson, LeRib and Jenkins are the only players we've drafted in rounds 2 & 3 for the last 8 years (that's 14 total picks) that contributed last night. Notice how Amerson is the only person from the last two drafts on that list (apologies to Jordan who was hurt). Given our injury situation, and that we had 3 cracks at it, the lack of anyone from this years picks being on the contributors list is frightening. Both our starting MLBs are 4th round picks. We are relying on 4th round rookie corners and FA plugins. Bruce is on a very short leash with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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