Thekyle1591 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Right now... After seeing turnstiles at RT enough to last me a year and knowing Moses is project, we need a stud RT with our top ten pick. 2nd round... NT/DE. Hatch is gonna be plagued with injury and we need depth 3rd round... Safety You have to spend time developing players. You can't just draft a player at a postion you addressed last year because they didn't start as a rookie.Although I agree that if the BPA is an OT, that we go that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Landon Collins should be our first pick... Waiting till the 3rd round for another safety leaves us in the same position. We need studs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 You have to spend time developing players. You can't just draft a player at a postion you addressed last year because they didn't start as a rookie. Although I agree that if the BPA is an OT, that we go that direction. This is why I always preach to draft BPA with a focus on the importance of the position, regardless of who we have on the team. We need to build depth everywhere, and we're seeing that right now. The problem with "ignoring" a position because we just drafted a prospect is that we don't know how those prospects will turn out. That's why I loved the 2008 draft in terms of strategy, just not the players we got. But we kept trading down and getting more picks so that we could address multiple positions. I'd love to do what NE does every year and draft 10-15 players a year, knowing that most will have 2 years max with the team. I think the 2013 draft was the problem with expecting picks to come in and play well - they generally don't. So right now we're left as DG called it, "playing the lottery" on UDFAs and hoping we find the next London Fletcher or Antonio Pierce. Those things work sometimes, but if we can't draft well, why should we be able to sign UDFAs well? Right now I don't expect to see many of our starters on the OL back next year, but if they are back I want it to be because they won competitions for spots. So supposing we land a top 5 pick, I'd like to trade into the 10-15 range and pick up maybe a second and/or a third so we can have a lot of picks in the first 2 and three rounds, where the success rate is much higher. After that hopefully we understand the importance of positions and draft another LT, RT, DE, FS, NT, G/C, ILB, OLB, probably with that hierarchy of how important the positions are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Landon Collins should be our first pick... Waiting till the 3rd round for another safety leaves us in the same position. We need studs Then where would we find our stud RT, LG or RG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Then where would we find our stud RT, LG or RG? I don't think we're that far off on the Oline. Our biggest problem last year was interior guys getting pushed back and blowing things up. We've got a couple bigger guys that might be worse at run blocking but at least are strong enough to hold up the interior. RT has been by far our biggest issue this season. Hopefully we see Moses get some live action this year to see what we have with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Versus Arizona, he went against Calais Campbell all night. Campbell is one of the better d-linemen in this league.   Campbell is a top-notch player, though his strength is as an all-around player not a fearsome pass rusher. He's never had 10 sacks in a  year.  Regardless, if Iupati had a decent game against him, good for him. I had heard a couple of comments that actually Campbell was giving him a lot of trouble. But I didn't see the game so I couldn't say.  But the idea that Iupati is mediocre, at best, in pass pro isn't even something that seems controversial. Whether you look at stats sites like Football Outsiders or PFF, read what analysts say or listen to commentators, it seems pretty much unanimous that he's strong in run blocking and much weaker in pass protection.  And for the Redskins, giving something like 8-9 mil per year to a G who isn't really going to improve our pass blocking seems like a pretty terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Then where would we find our stud RT, LG or RG? This FO won't be able to land a stud olineman in the draft... I'd rather go with Moses, Long and possibly one big FA signing... Landon Collins is a game changing Safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 This FO won't be able to land a stud olineman in the draft... I'd rather go with Moses, Long and possibly one big FA signing... Landon Collins is a game changing Safety. we were able to land trent williams...hes a stud olineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Anyone else catch the FSU vs NC State game yesterday? Screw Winston... Jacoby Brissett is a one man show. Reminds me of Roethlisberger. Keeps play alive, hits his man in stride. Could have been all of the designed plays to keep FSU on their toes but he is one sturdy dude at 6'4 235. Can't wait to see him in the Pros we were able to land trent williams...hes a stud olineman. LT is about the only position worthy of a high 1st round pick on the oline... As high as we will most likely be, I'd never draft an interior guy or RT in the top 10. Now if we trade back and obtain a couple first rounders, then we can think of upgrading a few positions, to include interior olineman and RT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Yeah there are very very few interior linemen you draft in the top 10. Has to be biiiig and quick. Mike Iutapi type dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 We need some safeties in the worst way. 7 years after Taylor's senseless death, we're still trying to find a competent replacement. We need some ballhawks back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 If we got Landon Collins in the first and then AJ Cann in the second... That's two very big upgrades... But don't be amazed if Gruden goes for a WR like Cooper to throw us all off... He'd be the AJ Green of Washington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 LT is about the only position worthy of a high 1st round pick on the oline... As high as we will most likely be, I'd never draft an interior guy or RT in the top 10. Now if we trade back and obtain a couple first rounders, then we can think of upgrading a few positions, to include interior olineman and RT  Lane Johnson was selected #4 overall. He was selected with the notion to play RT from day 1. The position, ultimately, is irrelevant.  The fact that he was a tremendous athlete who played QB and TE in JUCO, who then came to Oklahoma and played TE his first active year before becoming the starting RT, then the starting LT, is why he was selected top 10.  The idea is to get the very best player you can.  I try to think of it in a different way than just position. Most of the time, the best offensive lineman on any team is playing LT. The D-1 athlete in H.S., who happens to play o-line, is likely playing LT. He's the first guy off the bus. Chances are in college your best offensive lineman is playing LT, or at least the most athlete guy, is playing LT in college.  The great thing about selecting someone like Scherff is that you have the option to put a talented offensive lineman like him, the best one on his team -- thus he's playing LT, one of the better ones in the entire draft class, to play something different than just LT, for us.  Just because you select a collegiate player who last played LT, doesn't have to mean he needs to play LT for your team.  And you already know the why. Because we have someone worthy of LT already.  Thus, you can fill a deficiency somewhere else on your line with the talent of a "left tackle" calibre athlete. That is how you upgrade positions to places of strength. Theoretically Scherff, or the kid from Texas A&M, could plug in at RT, or LG, or RG ... because they are so talented.   Get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 It's really the other 3 positions that are the issue. And we just spent a big FA contract and two 3rds on those spots. While I'm not really high on all (or necessarily any) of those players, we are going to need to see how they play out first before we assume the team is going to go wild trying to upgrade them in the next 7 months.  Well that settles it then.  Soooooo ...  more of the same?  And for the Redskins, giving something like 8-9 mil per year to a G who isn't really going to improve our pass blocking seems like a pretty terrible idea.  I don't know if there's a misinterpretation in how you read my posts or not. Maybe you think I'm trying to predict the moves of the front office. I'm not.  I could care less as to what will happen. Because what has happened over the years, from the sum total of moves of our front office, has been losing seasons and mediocre results.  I'm more concerned with what should happen. And when I post, it's about what I like, the players I like, and how, in whatever ways possible, it can improve the team. ... From the first quote above, you readily admit there are concerns and questions over 3 of the 5 offensive line positions on our roster. It's really the other 3 positions that are the issue  - And yet the overall tone in your responses are to shelve ideas on how to improve the talent level at those positions. In a sense, kick the can some more. The "three other positions," you don't say?  Well, some posters have been taking about the interior line for years. I know damn well I have. You didn't just alert me to the idea that something other than LT needs to be improved.  Why don't we just get specific about the positions: RG, LG, RT.  And to be clear, I haven't yet sat down to watch what is going on at Center, or even try to grade it out. But for the most part, I believe no one had earned anything on our offensive line, except for Trent at LT. If you ask me, no one is above being replaced.  Or, I could phrase it differently, there is always room for improvement. Aka: you can always get a better athlete than the guys we currently have. It just depends on whether you want to do it, or not -- whether you can get the specific, the right guy, or not -- whether you have the money to or even the ability to even see the talent.  If somehow we can scratch center or one of the guard spots off the list by virtue of someone already on the roster, then that obviously makes things easier.  I agree that LG and RG and RT are all positions where we can stand to improve the talent level of the players currently there. We just have different ideas on how to fix it.  Obviously Long and Moses are unknowns because we haven't seen them in live action. I want to see them play so I can try and gauge their ability. But I sure as **** ain't penciling them in for anything. ... The next segment: we just spent a big FA contract and two 3rds on those spots  - Well tell that to John Schneider who brought in a free agent as his starting QB, Flynn, only to draft his replacement in Wilson, eventually cutting the FA QB after giving him some ridiculously large contact. Tell Schneider that he's not supposed to cut his 4th round WR Chris Harper because teams don't cut a player selected that early in the same year.  All I know is that the good teams figure out who they got and who they don't, in a hurry. They are not afraid to get rid of someone, eat their losses and move on, as opposed to hanging onto a replacement level guy just to keep up appearances.  All I know is that Schneider makes move, upon move, upon move. He doesn't seem to ever say: "let's not go after a really talented guy because we just made a transaction for a guy who was supposed to be the answer, but really isn't, but we need to save face and hold onto the average guy a little while longer."  That "big FA contract" you just mentioned, is for a guy who is just average. So ... cue Frank Reardon level of excite from me.  ... This part: before we assume the team is going to go wild trying to upgrade  - Like I said, I'm not trying to predict. If I want to try and predict, I'll always put a descriptor before it, like: "this is what I think they WILL try to do" ... ... This last part: giving something like 8-9 mil per year to a G who isn't really going to improve our pass blocking seems like a pretty terrible idea.  - Then where's your brilliant idea?  Well, let's keep following the same formula that has brought us 3-13. Whatever money we are spending on Lauvao, what is it? ... 4 million per, is for an average guy, who happens to be walking wounded. And his replacement in LeRib still hasn't got it figured out.  And for whatever ****ing reasons, we aren't playing the new drafted players to figure out if they can hang in this league or not.  But to actually be specific here, since you are once again referring to something without ever saying it, you are taking about Iupati. Or, more specifically, you're talking about my post which brought up the fact that Iupati was going to be a free agent in 2015. You however inferred that what I was trying to say was: "Go get him for LG and pay him whatever it takes."  I never said that.  I've already been very specific myself. What did I say in my post? ... http://es.redskins.com/topic/381550-2015-nfl-comprehensive-draft-database/?p=9959216 "one of my favorites from the 2010 draft."  Ha, where the hell did I say: "go break the bank"? In fact, all we can do is speculate on how much money he'll get or if he even leaves San Fran. I hate talking about contract numbers, it's the antithesis to football, at least to me it is.  Perhaps give me an iota of credit and maybe, for a second, pretend that if I had knowledge of what his real money numbers would be, despite actually liking the guy, I'd maybe be against signing him because the cost would be too much for what the return ability would be.  Iupati is not my first choice. Nor did I say it was a move we must make. I have always preferred the draft over free agency. And I clearly wrote up a big ass treatise earlier, focused specifically on Scherff and Cann.  But I did bring up Iupati because I remember him very well pre-draft and I was very high on him. And I brought up the fact that he's going to be a free agent as something that I'm mulling over and as an option, because yes, I actually think he is better than the Guards we have on our roster.  I don't care what PFF has to say about it. I can make my own decisions and grades. I understand football. And when, or if, I sit down to watch all of his games, then I'll grade him out concerning his pass-pro.  And I don't care if you think he isn't better than Lauvao or LeRib or Long in pass-pro, I don't share your sentiment. Because I know I've seen him produce at a Pro Bowl level since being drafted.  Like I said earlier, he's not going to get man handled or run over. We currently have guys starting who do, in pass-pro. Yes, he can get stiff and allow someone around him, sure, but you've got to be detailed and specific when trying to grade that out.  I presume you haven't taken into account that he had a left leg fracture late in the post season, NFC championship game last year, that perhaps has limited some if his mobility starting this season?  Who knows, perhaps that injury took a toll on his mobility. You have to pinpoint the moment there was a change. You know, he was never going to be the Shanahan archetype, but it's not like he wasn't without movement skills either. That's why he was a 1st round selection, #17 overall. ... So, I don't know what else to say other than I've worked out a multitude of options for improving our o-line, so many so, that I couldn't possibly explain it clear enough in this format. The intricacies of who to draft, and when, what position they could play, how you could mix up the roles for the guys already here, or as to which free agents could be brought in ... I always think about new ways to add talent and improve the o-line.  **** never happens. And I'm getting tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Jesus, is that a serious post? You're bringing up a FA in a draft thread, and when another poster had also commented on him I said I wouldn't want him because of his weakness in pass protection. Now, you want to scold me for bringing up how much it will cost? Because talking about money is beneath you? Â And then you're bringing up an earlier post I had where I said I didn't think this Front OFccie would look for OLine upgrades this offseason? Â And just generally lecturing me on football and whatever else.... Â Just never mind it all. Because I don't want to read your long-winded posts to figure out how many times I'm being condescended to or insulted. So I won't respond to you anymore and you can stop taking my comments out of context or talking down to me, and we'll both be happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Jesus, is that a serious post? You're bringing up a FA in a draft thread  Yes, we always do in the comprehensive. This isn't new. And it's not really a deviation in theme from the main thrust of the thread since the overall idea is talent acquisition.  Likewise, long before free agency starts we always dovetail to the available free agents in conjunction with draft picks ... since FA occurs prior to the draft and impacts a team's draft approach like nothing other, duh. and when another poster had also commented on him I said I wouldn't want him because of his weakness in pass protection.  Right, and I disagree. Just like your boy Porter who was beat out by Breeland for the Slot CB before Hall went down, I didn't agree with you on that one either.  Nah, what you said was "Iupati just isn't that good in pass-pro." It was declarative.  None of this, let me raise my hand, quoting parliamentary procedure, to present a minority report to the general assembly.  Your implication being that we are better off set with our guys ... who incidentally you likewise feel need to be improved, in some manner. So ... color me confused, a little bit. Now, you want to scold me for bringing up how much it will cost?  Because it's a guess.  Because talking about money is beneath you?  Because it's comical in larger picture.  Some posters live in the free agent world. And the only thing that really matters, it seems, are how our spread-sheets look. It's unavoidable that money dictates who you get. This is professional football, ther is money involved. It's also unavoidable that people (posters) start using money in terms of how to describe an athletes ability.  "Yea, I like this guy if we could get him for 5 million instead of 7 million." It's like the reading version of watching people eat playdough.  And for every level of football besides professional, the ability to identify talent and the process of talent evaluation has squirt to do with money. And then you're bringing up an earlier post I had where I said I didn't think this Front OFccie would look for OLine upgrades this offseason?  And that's "easy money" considering they tried to address it this last offseason. Yeah, it's an easy ****ing guess. That's probably what they WILL end up doing, not addressing it ... because it would mean admitting failure.   Like I said, more billboard hits from the group that brought you 3 and 13.  I wish I'm wrong. I'd like to see whoever is on the roster be THE answers, lock down all the spots. And just generally lecturing me on football and whatever else....  I didn't mention your horrible fashion sense or your gap tooth ...  Just never mind it all. Because I don't want to read your long-winded posts to figure out how many times I'm being condescended to or insulted. So I won't respond to you anymore and you can stop taking my comments out of context or talking down to me, and we'll both be happier.  I do kind of love it how you took my mention of Iupati out of context. I also loved how you called it a "terrible" idea to over-pay for him when I never brought up what the guesstimation amount might be, nor whether or not I'd actually fully sign-off on him when taking into consideration the whole picture like: who we actually might be able to get in the draft ... i.e.: Scherff / Cann / Kouandjio, etc ...  I guess you weren't being condescending either in your posts.  Oh well, if you want to break up, fine by me. But I'm keeping the vinyl collection.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 You have to spend time developing players. You can't just draft a player at a postion you addressed last year because they didn't start as a rookie. Although I agree that if the BPA is an OT, that we go that direction. I'm not talking bout development. Moses will remain what he is, likely depth. I'm talking bout what others mentioned, drafting Lane Johnson. Get the bookend. Next year C/G. We need Oline, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 blahbitty blahbiitty nonsense whatever etc  Dude, really. If you need to throw out that many snippets out of context, strawmen and stuff you're just making up (Porter over Breeland. Yeah, I won't ship up about that one) then your Manifestos aren't really worth the paper they're not  printed on. I don't think I'll even skim any more of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysaskin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm so sick of this mentality that you only take a Left Tackle with a high pick, that's the Vinny model. It's why our line is a bunch of turn styles. We drafted one Lineman with a high pick in the last 13 years, the rest have been scrub free agents, middle round draft picks or UDFA, I thought we would have learned with Stephon Heyer, but Polumbus is worse some how. Good teams don't do what we do with their lines, they spent multiple draft picks while they have good linemen to make sure that the line always has fresh blood. Our response is to use third through seven round picks on the Oline and then sign UDFA's, bargain basement free agents and guys off the street, and with the exception of Jenkins I can't remember the last time we used a high draft pick on a pure D-Lineman. Two things you need to do to be successful, protect the QB and rush the QB and we can't do either and don't put the effort in to making sure that we can do that. You don't build lines through Free Agency, it's through the draft and it's through maintaining those lines. If Andrus Peat or Scherff or Lane Johnson is there when we pick we should be up at the podium announcing the pick and cutting Polumbus at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Dude, really. If you need to throw out that many snippets out of context, strawmen and stuff you're just making up (Porter over Breeland. Yeah, I won't ship up about that one) then your Manifestos aren't really worth the paper they're not  printed on. I don't think I'll even skim any more of them.  GTFO with this ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Landon Collins should be our first pick... Waiting till the 3rd round for another safety leaves us in the same position. We need studs  I'd be ok with draft Collins if he's the BPA.  But in general, you aren't getting good safety play from any rookie.  If you need to fill the position with a competent player immediately, you've got to make a trade or find a FA.  Any draft pick at that position needs to be understood as a long term project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 http://draftbreakdown.com/video/brandon-scherff-vs-michigan-state-2013/   Dude has more pancakes than an ihop. Such a boss.   Man, this dude just puts on a clinic. Finishes a block better than anyone in this class by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I'd really like to see Randy Gregory here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I'd be ok with draft Collins if he's the BPA. Â But in general, you aren't getting good safety play from any rookie. Â If you need to fill the position with a competent player immediately, you've got to make a trade or find a FA. Â Any draft pick at that position needs to be understood as a long term project. Â I have to look at more film of Collins, but if he's as special as people claim he is (I have a few doubts) then its not about him as a rookie, but his potential and where he can take our defense and our team. I'd really compare it to what we have with John Wall right now when coming in he was just a fast guy with good vision, but who had some obvious lapses in his game that made him struggle at times. Any player we get, I wouldn't be as focused on what they'll play like as a rookie, but where's their ceiling and how likely are they to reach that ceiling? Â And I REALLY want to move away from looking to FA to fill out our roster. Sure it can be used to find a guy here or there, but I'd like to use the draft as our main building block. Â ----- Â Has anybody been looking at QB Ben Anderson from Arkansas Pine Bluff. I wonder where he's projected to go. I wouldn't mind picking him up with a mid to lower round pick. They also have a Free Safety there, Ryan Shaw, who I'd be interested in checking out. Here's a look at Shaw's breakdown: http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/05/24/2014-nfl-draft-pre-season-breakdown-ryan-shaw-fs-arkansas-pine-bluff/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I'd really like to see Randy Gregory here. Â I've got him going #2 overall to Jacksonville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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