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Always A Commander Never A Captain

Always A Commander Never A Captain

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John Brown with 2 TDs en-route to an Arizona victory over San Fran. 

 

↓  Brown beat Jimmie Ward (1st round) one-on-one for his second TD. 

→John Brown highlights: Week 3

 

I remember you talking a lot about John Brown.  So props.

 

That said, am I misremembering, or did he not do much (if any) nickel corner work in college?  I recall him moving all around, but the closest he got to the LoS was as an in the box safety.

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RemoveSnyder

RemoveSnyder

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I remember you talking a lot about John Brown.  So props.

 

That said, am I misremembering, or did he not do much (if any) nickel corner work in college?  I recall him moving all around, but the closest he got to the LoS was as an in the box safety.

 

You mean Jimmie Ward. 

 

Yeah, JW lined up over the Slot in Man Press a bunch. He did play Rover and some half-field Cover 2 as a Safety, but during last year's comprehensive, I called him a "Slot DB," aka: nickel corner --- http://es.redskins.com/topic/369991-2014-comprehensive-nfl-draft-database/?p=9679098

 

So that's not new territory for JW. He just got beat off the line. Additionally, John Brown is an absolute speed boat.

 

JB, if you remember, was the WR who played at Pittsburgh State, originally from south Florida. 

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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The Cousins thread is way too stupid and vitriolic for me to post in, so I'm coming here to get the opinions from the regulars on Cousins.

Some of you may remember I was a fan of Cousins before the 2012 draft and was actually pimping a plan where we took either him or Russell Wilson later in the draft instead of going QB in round one. That was when we were picking 6 and I thought we had no shot at RGIII. I think the guys I liked at 6 or in a trade down were Justin Blackmon (eh...), Kuechly, Brockers, and Coples.

I've always been a Cousins fan, long before your typical loudmouth Cousins booster with less than a hundred posts on this forum had even heard his name. And I was actually happy about picking him in 2012 because I saw it as a BPA pick.

So all that said, I'm not a Cousins hater. I think Cousins's only serious problem is that he's not as good as RGIII. He's not as sharp as RGIII, the accuracy is good, not great, whereas RGIII throws with elite accuracy. And Cousins is much more of a gambler than RGIII, he throws into coverage a lot. That's the thing that really stood out to me against the Eagles. He was sharp in the first half but he was still throwing into coverage and relying on his pass catcher to make the great play. In the second half he just wasn't sharp. The offense also stalled out because they just couldn't establish the ground game, and Kirk isn't a playmaker that's going to make things happen on his own. Going all the way back to Dantonio's system at MSU, Kirk needs play action humming to do his thing. That's his game.

I just can't get on board with this talk of making Kirk the franchise and burning RGIII, or even simply riding the hot hand if Cousins holds form and RGIII gets healthy before the end of the year. That's not the best move for the franchise long term. Kirk is good enough to win with. But he's not as good as RGIII, who is truly special. RGIII is a rich man's Aaron Rodgers. You don't keep that kind of super car in the garage, and you certainly don't get rid of it for peanuts to trade down to the family wagon.

I would like to see Kirk land on his feet somewhere that's a good fit. I'd like to see him in Kansas City with Andy Reid. I like him in that system and I think he'd be able to flourish with all that talent surrounding him. And I think he'd be an upgrade over their QBs. Maybe Arizona. A Bruce Arians offense isn't the best fit, but the talent at WR is what you'd want to have Cousins working with.

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Always A Commander Never A Captain

Always A Commander Never A Captain

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So all that said, I'm not a Cousins hater. I think Cousins's only serious problem is that he's not as good as RGIII. He's not as sharp as RGIII, the accuracy is good, not great, whereas RGIII throws with elite accuracy. And Cousins is much more of a gambler than RGIII, he throws into coverage a lot. That's the thing that really stood out to me against the Eagles. He was sharp in the first half but he was still throwing into coverage and relying on his pass catcher to make the great play. In the second half he just wasn't sharp. The offense also stalled out because they just couldn't establish the ground game, and Kirk isn't a playmaker that's going to make things happen on his own. Going all the way back to Dantonio's system at MSU, Kirk needs play action humming to do his thing. That's his game.

I just can't get on board with this talk of making Kirk the franchise and burning RGIII, or even simply riding the hot hand if Cousins holds form and RGIII gets healthy before the end of the year. That's not the best move for the franchise long term. Kirk is good enough to win with. But he's not as good as RGIII, who is truly special. RGIII is a rich man's Aaron Rodgers. You don't keep that kind of super car in the garage, and you certainly don't get rid of it for peanuts to trade down to the family wagon.

I would like to see Kirk land on his feet somewhere that's a good fit. I'd like to see him in Kansas City with Andy Reid. I like him in that system and I think he'd be able to flourish with all that talent surrounding him. And I think he'd be an upgrade over their QBs. Maybe Arizona. A Bruce Arians offense isn't the best fit, but the talent at WR is what you'd want to have Cousins working with.

 

First, the sample size is too small, Cousins could flame out the next two weeks and the discussion is moot.  Anyways, back to the topic.  After RG3 had a serious non-contact injury, this questions how well we can rely on him in the future.  So I'm going into this Cousins thing with an open mind.  Below is some stuff I could be very wrong about, and I haven't watched the Eagles game again...so it's likely my initial impression is clouded via alcohol and in-the-moment-adrenaline.

 

So athletically, arm strength, accuracy, etc...all of the physical traits in a QB, RG3 has them over Cousins.  I agree.  Cousins arm strength is actually looking a bit stronger than I remember, but RG3's got a cannon.  That said, should we be adding traits to the QB category that aren't just physical?  Both work hard, so that's not a problem.  Both are likeable enough guys, so that's fine.  Both are clean off the field, so that's fine.  Both are book smart, I mean RG3 almost went to Stanford and wanted to be a lawyer (the media calling him a "mental midget" pissed me off).

 

But what about a willingness to just let the ball fly?  RG3's always seemed a bit gunshy to me.  He wants to make sure a defender isn't in a spot to intercept it, he's afraid of mistakes.  He's a perfectionist.  Whereas Kirk seems like he's willing to make a good enough decision, and let his players make plays.  He goes through his reads quick, and releases the ball quickly, it's difficult for a pass rush to get to him because he only waits for good enough, not for perfect.

 

RG3 on the other hand (and this is just speculation), seems to take a beat longer per read because he wants to make sure he knows what the defender is doing per read.  When RG3 got injured, he could have thrown it to DeSean Jackson earlier.  But by waiting (and making the play he did), he was sure the defender was out of position.

 

My impression of Nick Foles is that he's extremely comfortable in the Chip Kelly offense.  He knows it like the back of his hand.  He was avoiding sacks and the pressure we were creating, by trusting the offense and the players in 1v1 matches designed for them to win.  Due to the pressure we were creating, it felt like Foles was releasing the ball a bit earlier than he'd want to, but was trusting his guys to win the match-ups they were supposed to win.  That's why he was a bit "off-target" on some of his deeper attempts, he threw before he could tell how well the receiver/TE/whoever was gathering speed/broke on the route/separating cleanly from defender/etc.  But he'll connect often enough for that offense to gain a lot of points/yards.

 

So the question is, is RG3's perfectionist mindset going to be a permanent hindrance?  This isn't really something he can study away.  This is who he is.  He can understand the system, the playbook, everything perfectly...but that may not matter.  He has to be ok with the occasional bad play.  Look at his rookie year, his Int% was a ludicrously low 1.3% per pass attempt.  Peyton Manning has never had a Int% that low, and his career average is double that.  Rodgers and Brady have only matched that once in their whole careers.  Drew Brees career average is also double that, and has only been below 2.0% twice.

 

I don't remember any of the passes RG3 threw against the Texans (and the few against Jags) being close to intercepted.  In theory, RG3 has the physical tools and work ethic to develop into a QB that's impossible to gameplan against.  But due to his unwillingness to take chances, and his injury history...I'm going into this Kirk Cousins era with an open mind.

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bradboyd80

bradboyd80

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So would you gurus be open to creating a list in the OP of players to keep an eye on (maybe listed by position or something)? Or would that be too much work?  Personally, I don't know a lot about college players, but would like to see a list of guys to keep an eye on when I do watch on game day without having to pan through pages and pages of posts (I've seen this thread can get pretty long).

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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So the question is, is RG3's perfectionist mindset going to be a permanent hindrance?  This isn't really something he can study away.  This is who he is.  He can understand the system, the playbook, everything perfectly...but that may not matter.  He has to be ok with the occasional bad play.  Look at his rookie year, his Int% was a ludicrously low 1.3% per pass attempt.  Peyton Manning has never had a Int% that low, and his career average is double that.  Rodgers and Brady have only matched that once in their whole careers.  Drew Brees career average is also double that, and has only been below 2.0% twice.

 

I don't remember any of the passes RG3 threw against the Texans (and the few against Jags) being close to intercepted.  In theory, RG3 has the physical tools and work ethic to develop into a QB that's impossible to gameplan against.  But due to his unwillingness to take chances, and his injury history...I'm going into this Kirk Cousins era with an open mind.

I definitely agree that Cousins is a more aggressive and reckless passer and I too have noticed that he tends to throw into coverage and rely on his receivers to bail him out a lot more than RGIII does.

But I came to the opposite conclusion: that it's not a good thing because he's relying on his receivers to bail him out of bad decisions and throws, and that RGIII is a superior decision maker. Think about your argument for a second, do you really feel that RGIII's lack of throwing interceptions is a bad thing? That's like when people cite his ability to run as a negative. It's twisting the logic of the situation around.

I don't see hesitancy or an unwillingness to take chances out of RGIII. And he does make a ton of big plays at the position, yet does so with remarkable efficiency. That's largely what makes him so special and gives him that upside to be the best player in the NFL. His efficiency comes because he plays so fast and goes through his decision-making process fast. He bails his receivers and OL out by extending plays & serving as an "extra blocker" by forcing them to honor his run threat, etc.

Very few QBs are legitimate weapons at the position. RGIII is. As such, he's one of the most valuable players in the NFL. I understand that it's a team game and I believe our offense as a whole has gotten better and added both playmakers and solid starters to buttress the thing. Similar to Nick Foles in Philly, Cousins is good enough for a team to win with, so long as they have good talent around him. But you don't ever give up a weapon at QB if you were lucky enough to acquire one. In general, RGIII's talent gives us the ability to run a good offense even if the talent around him gets degraded. I don't think Cousins does.

This is me being open-minded about the situation. The homer in me wants to believe that Cousins is better and we've found our Tom Brady and he's going to save our franchise. But the realist in me has been watching Griffin and Cousins for four and five seasons now respectively, and knows that Cousins is a downgrade.

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Rufus T Firefly

Rufus T Firefly

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SMQ- I kind of think you've always overrated Griffin's accuracy a bit. It's ridiculous on deep balls, but just good on intermediate throws. I'm not sure Cousins couldn't potentially be as good. As for the INTs, it'll be interesting if it's kind of a young gunslinger attitude like Elway  and many others had and will improve as he gets experience.

 

He hasn't done nearly as well in second halts. I suspect that is because he's not handling defenses that have adjusted to him. That seems to be the most negative indicator from his 2 games this year. Need to see him progress there.

 

I'm not interested in having a good QB. It's extremely unlikely to win a Super Bowl without a great QB. That's what I want. I'm still certain Griffin can be one if he stays healthy. Cousins I'm sure can be a good QB, but I don't know if he can be great. That's the only bright side to the injury to RG3, I'm sure I'll know what to think of Kirk by the time Griffin comes back.

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Cooleyfan1993

Cooleyfan1993

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Which good quality Offensive Linemen could we target/should we target in the draft in the 1st round? should we draft a RT, and a RG, or a RT and a LG with our 1st and 2nd round picks? i mean obviously that landon collins dude does sound like he would be a stud for the defense. but we will probably have just 1 1st round draft pick.

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RemoveSnyder

RemoveSnyder

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Yeah I agree Monk. You can only carry so many projects on your OL before they just start replacing each other before they ever really pan out. But to get those kinds of Day 1 starters--realistically--you need to spend a first round pick. Or maybe you get lucky and one was there in the second. But you can't be reaching to fill a position with a draft pick. The board has to break such that a worthy offensive lineman would be there at the pick. You need to be picking at the right number in the right year.

 

You know me, I've rebuilt the Redskins offensive line twice over, each year, since 2010. As you know, it always comes down the specific player. 

 

Image a scenario wherein we are selecting Top 10 again, or maybe Top 15. But this year we have a 1st rounder to use. 

 

The first thing I thought of a few weeks ago was how to build a line with Trent still in his prime, before he gets injured. Whoops. But let's assume that his knee / knee-cap is just a bump in the road.

 

From what I just read, apparently an MRI is not needed. So that's good news. 

 

And let's assume we select early enough to get whoever we want for o-line. Here's what I propose. We select Brandon Scherff.

 

Ah, but instead of doing what 99% of the rest of ES would do and make him switch all the way over to the rightside at RT, inplace of Polumbus, I'd slide him to Left Guard. Again, assuming Trent is still the LT that we know ... not Jonathan Ogden, but better than most, except when against Dumervil. 

 

You see, Scherff, at his worst, is still a powerful run blocker. Agile enough to get out of his stance and into the 2nd level, already adept at Zone blocking, but big enough to knock the piss out of most college LBs and often enough most college d-linemen. An impact player in that sense (run game).

 

Even if he ended up not being a universally recognized stand-out player, future Hall-of-Famer, I think you can easily say that he'll run block with the best of them, be a sturdy, likely pro-bowl level Guard.

*If given that role.

 

But that doesn't even capture it. I think he's a good player and worthy of the 1st round and I'm sure some team right now is penciling him in as a starting, Day-1, Tackle. I think he can play Tackle too. 

 

But for us, it's a double impact. You see, if we ever had any issues of health with Trent, if we needed to have someone start at LT, I'd take Scherff over any guy we've currently got on our roster. And I, more importantly, like to keep guys on the side they are already familiar with. You see, he's been on the leftside of the o-line since he's been at Iowa ... 2010. 

 

​That's what he's familiar with. I want to keep it that way. Keep the biomechanical movements the same. I don't like the idea of introducing a switch to the rightside where all the technique and drop-foot placement, movements are with the opposite foot and hand ... the opposite of what he's trained for the last 7 or so years. 

 

He played Tackle in high school his Junior and Senior year. He was the starting QB as a Sophmore in H.S., and also played some TE his Junior year. Just one of those too talented guys for the H.S. level. 

 

So going back to 2008 or so, he's been, more-or-less, a leftside offensive lineman and/or Tackle. Keep him on the leftside. 

 

Some of Scherff's drawbacks could be in how well he kick-slides. Or more generally how nimble he is. He's not elite in that sense. As in, not overly nimble with his feet, not dancing. However, not lacking -- imo. Just to make that clear. So that's important. 

 

He has had some injury. He bounced back from a broken leg and ankle dislocation from his Soph season, he looked good last year. Most recently he's had a meniscus issue with his knee, required surgery this year. He came back recently and returned to form, run blocked fools into the dirt.  

 

Anyway, you think you'd be comfortable with Polumbus at LT?

What about Moses? - His first ever start in the NFL as our LT? 

 

No,sir. Not me.

 

But there's more. I like the idea of keeping Scherff on the leftside to build up the strength there. For us, he'd be a size upgrade for the interior. However, size wise, there certainly are guys his size or even bigger who play LG. He's sized like a lot of current NFL guards. But for us, it would add bulk to the interior.

 

He last played LG in 2011 at Iowa, his redshirt Freshman year. Like I said, he gets after it in the run game and he likes contact. So don't worry about him wilting away from the physical.

 

That's what we need on the interior, someone who can withstand big guys trying to enforce their will.

 

Ok, so just to recap ... we still got Trent at LT, now add Scherff at LG, but he's a swing guy if need be.

 

Then, we move onto a Center, or maybe a Guard moved over to Center. Now, the one center who I really feel good about is the kid, Voltz, from Wisconsin. He literally plays Center ... so you never can go wrong drafting a guy to play the position he's already trained in ...  :) 

 

But I feel like he's not going to come out this year as a redshirt Soph. But, I'm telling you, Voltz is going to be one of the top Centers when he does decide to come out. 

 

Instead, we do a similar thing in style to the Scherff pick ... add AJ Cann the next round. And here, we slide him to Center. Now he too would add a size upgrade over what we currently had. And I personally feel like his style of blocking is conducive to what you need from a Center. 

 

I see him get out of his stance just fine, I don't think he's some plodding dinosaur that some critics have lead people to believe. But more importantly, I don't think he's some powerful drive blocker that some people have insinuated. I don't see him driving people back, BUT, I do see him controlling guys at the POA.

 

Yes, controlling the POA does take power, but a different kind. What Cann does do so well, is that he can get the right angle on a guy, get the right leverage on a guy.

 

​And when I use leverage I'm referring to being underneath someone's pads, being able to get their weight high and thus get then off balance. So ... leverage really isn't the term I'm looking for with Cann. What I'm looking for is a word to describe how he manages to wall guys off.

 

I think he's superlative at sliding to the outside shoulder of a defender, walling him off from the action, and creating a lane. Cann is crafty more than powerful and that is exactly what you need from a Center.

 

I think he understands gap integrity.  

...

BOOM, you've got 3/4th of the line worked out and one helluva center/left side. 

...

The only other guy I'll mention right now is the LT at Kansas State, Cody Whitehair. He's a redshirt Junior.

 

I watched him vs Auburn and really like the way he moved. He's light on his feet. You can see the difference in how he dances on the edge vs Scherff. Whitehair is very fluid. Anyway, Whitehair is a guy I need to see more of, but for right now, I think I could pencil him in as a mid-round selection and he could compete for the starting RT spot.

 

You see, for me, the guys who can dance and play light on their feet are who need to be on the edge. Brutes like Scherff can be on the inside. Anyway, Whitehair could also be a guard, he's sized more like a Guard than a Tackle. He's like the kind-of o-lineman you see the Packers getting. He's got very good movement skills though.

 

So, at that point, you've really created great competition for the one remaining spot at RG ... Or, I guess I could say the two spots on the rightside, RT and RG.

 

At which point, you've got Long who played RG in college, you've got Lauvao who played RG in Cleveland, you've got LeRib in the mix, you've got Moses or Compton who could also compete for RG and provide that SIZE upgrade to the interior / bigger anchor / more push in the run game ... or they both could compete for RT along with Whitehair (possibly if he entered the draft and we got him). 

 

You'll always have undrafted guys to compete, you've also got to include the practice squad guys, you keep the best 10 and hopefully we have depth.

 

And honestly, I'm not really crazy about the idea of spending a first rounder on an interior lineman in general. In an ideal world, a stud interior defensive lineman will just be sitting there waiting for us to pick him when it's our turn in the first round this draft. IMO no other position for our team could match the impact of adding a true difference making DL in the first round. Those kinds of players have such high positional value for the draft.

That said, if there is a beast of a guard or center that's the BPA in our tier when we pick, then I'm all for it. We'll play the hand we're dealt.

 

I feel, in general, that this year's draft is so ... foreign to me. I mean, I think it's a by-product of the fact that so many underclassmen entered early last year. I literally don't know scores of guys this year, particularly for d-line. I'll learn them, sure, but ... there are so many guys out there who are 1st year starters and we're just getting tape on them.

 

The only advantage scouts have right now, is that there are tons of pages of info from the Blesto group on these guys from high school and whatever they've seen in Spring practice the last two years during redshirt seasons and perhaps spot duty during the freshman year.

 

But for the most part, I feel like a lot of guys are just unknowns. And for me that spells great upheaval in the presumed "top of the list" guys, or even the random rabble of names in CBS' list of 900. 

 

Sans the four year starters or the guys with a couple years of tape already. 

 

If we keep winning, it'll kind of cure some of our ills and we'll have a lot more patience/time to wait on these projects to bear fruit. We've got three third round OL picks on our bench. Some of them have to pan out right? I don't know, I just have a feeling that Moses and Long will. I think Long is going to be one of those workmanlike guys that's never a beast but is just a steady presence in your starting line up and you trust him and never really feel the need to upgrade him. And then I think Moses is going to give us a lot of spectacularly good and pretty bad. But then eventually he grows into his tremendous physical gifts and becomes a quality starter. That's my wild guess.

And if those things do turn out to be true, then man, I think you could build a completely dominant OL simply by adding a special guard.

 

I've really got no problem with looking at both Moses and Long this year. In fact, I'm different from a bunch of folks, I'd like to see Moses and/or Compton at RG. 

 

I mean, simplify things for the young guys. With Moses' body, I'd like to see what he looks like when you say: "Ok, Big Fella, now ... get in the 3-point, see the shading of the d-lineman, and now ... GO knock his dick in the dirt!" 

 

I just want to see that big body uncoil straight ahead and see how much movement he can generate. Your boy Osemele is cut in the same proportionality, body size, as Moses. Of course everyone else wants to see him on the edge ... whatever, sure ... why not. It's not like we're in danger of losing our SuperBowl season. 

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Rufus T Firefly

Rufus T Firefly

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Lichtensteiger has looked really good to me at C, a move I thought was a couple of years overdue. While Williams has seemed a bit off so far, going back to preseason, he's still top 3-5 LT in the league.

 

It's really the other 3 positions that are the issue. And we just spent a big FA contract and two 3rds on those spots. While I'm not really high on all (or necessarily any) of those players, we are going to need to see how they play out first before we assume the team is going to go wild trying to upgrade them in the next 7 months.

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