2015 NFL Comprehensive Draft Database

[DogofWar1]

If we think we can grab a starting guard at the top of the 2nd, which is possible, and Compton is playing well, then I'd avoid the OL in FA, and just grab 2 other linemen later on to fill the ranks and hope for some diamonds in the rough.  We so rarely get anything out of our 5th-7th rounders anyway, there's no harm in throwing a 5th and 7th at OL versus other spots, unless we see some super talent drop.

 

I'd like Lauvao to move to RG.  That's where he played in CLE, and where we should endeavor to play him.

 

Personally I'd move him tomorrow and just slide Chester over (he's a turnstile no matter where anyway).

 

 

Why do people keep saying we need TE/WR/RB?

We have Jordan Reed, Swiss Army Knife Niles Paul, and Paulson. I know Paulson isn't great, but we could probably pick something up in FA. Not waste a draft pick.

Our WR core is the best we've had in years. Garçon, DJax, Roberts, and a amazing rookie Grant. Plus Niles Paul can play receiver if we need him to. We're good there.

 

It's because you have to plan ahead several years or you end up with a talent hole.

 

2015 is set, more or less.  Niles Paul's contract is done.  We probably resign him, but he's flashed some talent, so some team could conceivably snatch him up for more and a bigger role.  But we keep everyone else.

 

Then 2016 rolls around and things get tricky.  RGIII costs more and AlMo costs more.  That creates some cap concerns, and we might have to consider cutting some people, and the top 2 players in terms of recouped money upon cutting?  DJax and Garcon.  I'm not saying  we cut them, but things are tricky.

 

Then 2017 rolls around, and Garcon, DJax, and Reed are all done with their contracts.  Now, Reed might be worth money if he can stay healthy...but....well that's far from proven.   But at that point DJax and Garcon are aging, we can't afford big contracts for the rest at their ages.

 

Then 2018 rolls around and Robert's contract is done, with the same age issue looming.

 

So yes, this year and the next are rosy, but it goes downhill rather quickly with the cap, and 2017 is a straight up cliff drop.  We need to have a plan in place for that.

[Laron Burgundy]

Teams often pick (in the top 10) OL that start as guards(Robinson) or RT and are gradually moved to RT/LT. A RT capable of spelling, and eventually replacing, Trent would be worth a top 10.

We could also trade down to 15 or so and pick up a Zach Martin who started at guard for the Cowboys but is capable of playing RT.

Is a dominant guard who goes to 7 pro bowls worth a top 10? Of course, you might be able to land that type of talent in the 2nd or 3rd round but what are the chances?

I wouldn't say often, pretty sure there have been only 2 guards drafted in the top 10 ever. Robinson was kind of a special case and started at guard because he had almost no experience at pure pass protecting at auburn. And the rt route would be fine except that Trent probably still has 7 years of playing lt left. There would be no point in drafting his replacement this early.

Of course drafting a 7 time pro bowl guard is worth it, but which guard in this draft would you say is a future hall of famer? Currently none of them really stand out as surefire all-pros, which means none of them are really worth a top 10.

[Laron Burgundy]

It's because you have to plan ahead several years or you end up with a talent hole.

2015 is set, more or less. Niles Paul's contract is done. We probably resign him, but he's flashed some talent, so some team could conceivably snatch him up for more and a bigger role. But we keep everyone else.

Then 2016 rolls around and things get tricky. RGIII costs more and AlMo costs more. That creates some cap concerns, and we might have to consider cutting some people, and the top 2 players in terms of recouped money upon cutting? DJax and Garcon. I'm not saying we cut them, but things are tricky.

Then 2017 rolls around, and Garcon, DJax, and Reed are all done with their contracts. Now, Reed might be worth money if he can stay healthy...but....well that's far from proven. But at that point DJax and Garcon are aging, we can't afford big contracts for the rest at their ages.

Then 2018 rolls around and Robert's contract is done, with the same age issue looming.

So yes, this year and the next are rosy, but it goes downhill rather quickly with the cap, and 2017 is a straight up cliff drop. We need to have a plan in place for that.

While we do have to plan ahead, I wouldn't start planning two years in advance for early draft picks. We'll maybe cut one of the receivers in 2016, but I'd imagine grant will step up to fill adequately. We might not have the top receiving corp in 2016 but we'd still have a good one. Then in 2017 you would address it with an early pick.

For rb I see the situation a bit differently. Not sure if almo really fits gruden's system, and he likely will see the biggest rise in salary in 2015 so it may be better to just let him go.

One reason I'd be completely fine with a gurley pick is because of that as well as what gurley bring to the offense in versatility. A defense knows when almo is in the game that we aren't going to do screens or even really have him as an emergency valve. It helps a defense considerably when they know what plays they likely won't face. Meanwhile with helu in the game it is almost always a pass, and he sucks at pass protecting so often he's out on a route. With Gurley at rb you could run the whole playbook. I think that's an underestimated benefit. If almo finishes this season strong it might negate a lot of my scheme fit worry though, but gurley will likely be the bpa at our pick.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Why do people keep saying we need TE/WR/RB?

We have Jordan Reed, Swiss Army Knife Niles Paul, and Paulson. I know Paulson isn't great, but we could probably pick something up in FA. Not waste a draft pick.

Our WR core is the best we've had in years. Garçon, DJax, Roberts, and a amazing rookie Grant. Plus Niles Paul can play receiver if we need him to. We're good there.

Almo, Helu,and Redd. A great runner (Alfred), a pass/screen guy (Helu), and a rookie that can fill in for either one (Redd).

I don't get it, and I certainly don't want to cut Garçon. He was amazing in '12 and '13. He doesn't have the speed Jackson does but he's one of the best recievers we've got.

I'm not sure how much people "keep saying" that, but there are certainly issues at those positions going forward.

 

TE- Reed and Paul are both good receiving TEs, but they make a really lousy two-TE set because they are both bad blockers. Paulsen is OK as a 3rd string all-around TE, but we use his as the "blocking" TE which should really be reserved for someone who's....you know... really good at blocking. Paulsen isn't. He's just decent at everything, he's only an exceptional blocker when compared to the other two. There is plenty of talent at the position, and it'll cost a lot on the cap going forward to keep all of the, but they don't fit together well at all.

 

WR- Certainly a great group at the moment. But Jackson and Garcon are only signed for two more years, and I'm not sure either (especially Jackson, as I've said elsewhere) would make smart investments beyond that as they're both entering their age-31 seasons. Roberts, meanwhile, will be costing 5 mil per year and it's debatable whether he'll be worth it. That's definitely a group which can be a strength for 2 years, but I question the wisdom of a building team thinking that the nest 2 years are all they should be worried about.

 

RB- Morris is signed for one more year. At which point, you would think he'd be worth something like what the Lynch/Forte/Rice/Stewart group gets paid- 7+ mil per year, maybe more with inflation. I personally wouldn't consider spending that on a RB and definitely not Morris specifically Helu, meanwhile, is a FA this offseason. So, there are questions going froward.

 

Again, you can certainly argue those positions are pretty set for this year if you want to hold what we have. But, once more, I think that's a wrongheaded way for a team in our position to be thinking.

[Taylor703]

Landon Collins is a beast.

[Conn]

Andre Roberts is pretty much the best example of what's wrong with our FO's ability to build a roster...he's the type of role player that other teams draft cheaply every 4-5 years, but we go out and sign him to an above average contract. The Cardinals let him go in FA and immediately draft his replacement, who already looks better, in John Brown in the 3rd round.

[PartyPosse]

Andre Roberts is pretty much the best example of what's wrong with our FO's ability to build a roster...he's the type of role player that other teams draft cheaply every 4-5 years, but we go out and sign him to an above average contract. The Cardinals let him go in FA and immediately draft his replacement, who already looks better, in John Brown in the 3rd round.

 

And they still don't have a QB nor have they drafted a legit starter in almost 20 years. 

 

Sounds like a top notch FO to me

[Rufus T Firefly]

And they still don't have a QB nor have they drafted a legit starter in almost 20 years. 

 

Sounds like a top notch FO to me

Yeah. Damn straight!

 

I mean, they have drafted the majority of the starting lineup that currently has the best record in the NFL, but ignoring that, they have obviously never drafted anybody worth anything.

[Conn]

And they still don't have a QB nor have they drafted a legit starter in almost 20 years.

Sounds like a top notch FO to me

If you're going to judge a FO soley based on their ability to draft a great long-term franchise QB, most teams are going to fail that test miserably.

Anyways, Roberts was just an example. Have anything to say to the general point of my post? Other teams draft that type of role player, we pay them like starters in FA. It's not a winning strategy long term.

[CRobi21]

I am still in love with Denzel Perrymen.

[TheGoodBits]

My wife just suggested that the Redskins need to draft FSU's kicker. I had to talk her out of him having 3rd round value.

[RG3Hunna]

Yes, I don't really get the 1st rounder MUST be an o lineman mentality. Our weakest position there, guard, is not something you want to spend a top 10 pick on. Furthermore, it's not like our line is the worst in the league. It could be better, but the draft is about getting the best talent you can at your spot, use fa to fill needs.

I understand what you're saying but you can draft a left tackle like Cedric Ogbuehi or Brandon Scherff and put them at Guard if Tom Compton continues to play well and just keep compton at RT. 

 

Now don't get me wrong of course you want BPA, if there's a superstar defensive player you pull the trigger but if there's not you pull the trigger on the tackle that you could either play at RT or in the interior at your weak guard position.

 

We as football fans make football more complicated that it needs to be, honestly it's won in the trenches. When we were a dynasty we had the best trenches in football, we lost our identity.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

Duke Johnson in the 3rd round

[DogofWar1]

While we do have to plan ahead, I wouldn't start planning two years in advance for early draft picks. We'll maybe cut one of the receivers in 2016, but I'd imagine grant will step up to fill adequately. We might not have the top receiving corp in 2016 but we'd still have a good one. Then in 2017 you would address it with an early pick.

For rb I see the situation a bit differently. Not sure if almo really fits gruden's system, and he likely will see the biggest rise in salary in 2015 so it may be better to just let him go.

One reason I'd be completely fine with a gurley pick is because of that as well as what gurley bring to the offense in versatility. A defense knows when almo is in the game that we aren't going to do screens or even really have him as an emergency valve. It helps a defense considerably when they know what plays they likely won't face. Meanwhile with helu in the game it is almost always a pass, and he sucks at pass protecting so often he's out on a route. With Gurley at rb you could run the whole playbook. I think that's an underestimated benefit. If almo finishes this season strong it might negate a lot of my scheme fit worry though, but gurley will likely be the bpa at our pick.

 

With regards to WR, Grant stepping in to be a nice #2 option would be hugely helpful, but we'll need at least one more draft success.  I don't think Grant can be a great #1 option because his height and speed are very middle of the road.  That being said, his route running and hands make him a very interesting option as a #2, someone who can get the #2 CB to bite and then catch a ball anywhere in a very large radius.

 

Back to drafting, WRs are tricky when picking them, they often take 2-3 years to fully develop, even the really good ones.  If we took one next year, they probably would hit their stride around 2017, right around when we need them.  The closer to 2017 we take them, the more complete the WR will need to be coming out of college, and the higher we'll need to pick them.

 

With Gruden here, I wouldn't be surprised if he cut whichever of Garcon/DJax he felt was least useful to him after 2015, and threw a 1st at a WR in 2016.  Adding a Julio Jones/AJ Green-esque receiver would be very helpful going forward, and probably necessary since we'll need them at a fairly high level by 2017.

 

Anyways, we need another starting WR to come from somewhere by 2017.  The most likely place that won't cost an arm and a leg is the 1st two rounds of the draft.

 

For RBs, I'm conflicted.

 

On the emotional front, my mind tells Gruden to take a hike if he's gonna mistreat AlMo.  That man has given 120% every day he's been here.

 

From the team building stand point, I'm conflicted within the conflict...tion...

- On the one hand, if Gruden finds an RB who is perfectly tailored to his offensive system, a Giovani Bernard 2.0, then yeah, moving AlMo might make the most sense.

- On the other hand, plenty of RBs have been touted as the next XX, and then done much less.  Drafts are weird.  2013 was great early(Bernard, Bell, Ball), 2012 sucked early (Richardson, Wilson, Pead) so who knows what will come down the pipe.

 

Gurley definitely is someone impressive, but considering AlMo might be cheap for another year, I don't know if spending a high pick on an RB makes sense, ESPECIALLY considering OL, S, and DL are a little higher on the to-do list.  But if Gruden thinks Gurley is the next AP, it makes him tough to pass up.

 

 

 

I think, if the Gruden system can shift a tad to ensure AlMo's continued effectiveness, he should do that first before looking to draft someone.  RBs are comparatively cheap, franchise guys can be had for around 7-8M a year, less than many positions, and AlMo probably will have a number of good years left in him after 2015 still, so from a building standpoint, unless we feel like we've got another AP, it might be best to stay with AlMo through around 2018-2019.  Or not.  There are a lot of factors bouncing around.

 

It is nice that RB is undervalued and that we have such a competent RB in AlMo already, so we can afford to approach that skill position more slowly than with WR, where there's an imminent looming hole, and top WRs are not undervalued.

 

 

And they still don't have a QB nor have they drafted a legit starter in almost 20 years. 

 

Sounds like a top notch FO to me

 

You can rate an FO on drafting QBs, but more often than not, it's luck, and you can't hold it against them for not drafting one well.

 

I mean, consider the fact that with Palmer merely playing well, not elite, their team has the best record in football.  Can you imagine what would happen with a Peyton or Rodgers?

 

Getting a franchise QB is hard and a lot of the time comes down to luck (at several levels; draft talent, where you're picking, how that talent actually develops, etc.).  The fact that they've done as well as they have without a franchise QB is impressive.

[nemocystem]

Seriously...with the grades on Gurley(he's all but a lock to be the 1st back taken despite his suspension, & this would make Gordon less likely to be drafted early), if we end up in the 8-12 range i would take a hard look at trading AlMo for a 3rd/4th (maybe someone would give a late 2nd, but i doubt it) & moving back a few spots to take Gordon. Then we could either use those additional picks (from AlMo, & trade back), or parlay them into another 2nd or moving back into the 1st to get an OL/DL?

Just some food for thought.

Gordon is the real deal & can play every down tomorrow in the NFL. Gurley is the truth, no doubt, but Gordon may be his equal, or even better all around.

[DogofWar1]

I just can't get behind the idea of dropping AlMo by the wayside, not without some very good reasoning, AND us setting him up in a cushy position.

 

He's been so good to us.  He works his butt off, has stayed healthy, doesn't complain when his stats are compromised for the benefit of the team (he loses a surprisingly large number of goal-line carries to other players) is practically a saint, and is just all around awesome.

 

There are very few moves this FO could make that would make me re-examine my fanhood, which I have never questioned once in 18 years, but doing wrong by AlMo would be one of those.  Heck, if RGIII is let go after year 4, I could probably figure out why and live with it better than if we got rid of AlMo without setting him up for life.

 

Admittedly, I'd probably get over it, but darn if the taste in my mouth wouldn't be bitter for a few years.

 

So...if the FO is looking to move AlMo (which I hope they aren't, he is a 1,000 yard back without RGIII and a 1,300 yard back, at least, with him) my one request is that we make sure he's taken care of.

[RG3Hunna]

Seriously...with the grades on Gurley(he's all but a lock to be the 1st back taken despite his suspension, & this would make Gordon less likely to be drafted early), if we end up in the 8-12 range i would take a hard look at trading AlMo for a 3rd/4th (maybe someone would give a late 2nd, but i doubt it) & moving back a few spots to take Gordon. Then we could either use those additional picks (from AlMo, & trade back), or parlay them into another 2nd or moving back into the 1st to get an OL/DL?

Just some food for thought.

Gordon is the real deal & can play every down tomorrow in the NFL. Gurley is the truth, no doubt, but Gordon may be his equal, or even better all around.

Why would we draft a running back in the 1st round?(not sure if you meant 1st round but correct me if i'm wrong please) with Lauvao, Chris Chester, Licht and Tom Compton run blocking? The reason why our run game is so successful is because Alfred Morris breaks a LOT of tackles. Could Gordon break those tackles at the NFL level?

 

Don't get me wrong Gordon is a tremendous player but with our putrid tiny lineman he won't have much success here and would be a waste of a 1st rounder.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

My wife just suggested that the Redskins need to draft FSU's kicker. I had to talk her out of him having 3rd round value.

I like Forbath but I wouldn't mind drafting this kid either. Don't think he can come out until next year though. Having somebody so accurate with a leg and the clutch gene for a decade + is a nice luxury. See Dan Bailey.

I wouldn't take him in the 3rd though

[Chump Bailey]

We absolutely IMO have to find 2 versatile OL in this upcoming draft - OG/C & OT/OG types.

 

I'd like to find a replacement for Kory too. Compton might just be playing his way into a starting role next season too.

[darrelgreenie]

We get ahead of ourselves a lot in this thread.

But counting Ryan Grant as a #2 WR when he can't even get on the field is premature.

I get the overall point of your post but you could just as easily mention any WR on the roster instead of Grant.

[Laron Burgundy]

We get ahead of ourselves a lot in this thread.

But counting Ryan Grant as a #2 WR when he can't even get on the field is premature.

I get the overall point of your post but you could just as easily mention any WR on the roster instead of Grant.

I think it was misconstrued when I said grant would step up after Garcon or Jackson gets cut. He'd still be the 3rd guy behind Roberts and whoever we didn't cut. He doesn't really have to be great for us to still have a decent wr corp with those 2 ahead of him.

[Laron Burgundy]

I understand what you're saying but you can draft a left tackle like Cedric Ogbuehi or Brandon Scherff and put them at Guard if Tom Compton continues to play well and just keep compton at RT. 

 

Now don't get me wrong of course you want BPA, if there's a superstar defensive player you pull the trigger but if there's not you pull the trigger on the tackle that you could either play at RT or in the interior at your weak guard position.

 

We as football fans make football more complicated that it needs to be, honestly it's won in the trenches. When we were a dynasty we had the best trenches in football, we lost our identity.

 

I don't know if I'd play Ogbuehi at guard, but Scherff is a great fit there.  I'm just really hesitant at using a top 10 pick on a guard.  Would Scherff or Ogbuehi really have so much more impact at guard than Cann/Matias/Kouandjio/Jackson in the 2nd?  I wish there was a real Robinson or Trent type mauler who was a perfect fit for RT but I just don't really like this class as edge protectors.  Ogbuehi looks the smoothest but he's been getting beat all year.  Peat has weak hands and not sure how much push he has with his legs either.  Scherff looks lazy and his pass protection can sometimes be god awful.  La'el has the ugliest kick step I've seen in a top prospect, he looks incredibly off balance moving backwards.  Those are the top guys and none of them really inspire confidence in me.  I have all of them as worse than Lewan from last year.

 

Things may shake up in individual drills at all-star games and the combine, but I'm not really liking this class of top tackles.  If they were all mid-late 1sts and early 2nd rounders I'd feel a lot better about drafting them, but I don't see any special, multiple pro bowl talent in this tackle class without a lot of work.  Most of their flaws are correctable, so it's not all bad, but top tackles normally look  better than this in their senior years.

[planter]

I wouldn't say often, pretty sure there have been only 2 guards drafted in the top 10 ever. Robinson was kind of a special case and started at guard because he had almost no experience at pure pass protecting at auburn. And the rt route would be fine except that Trent probably still has 7 years of playing lt left. There would be no point in drafting his replacement this early.

Of course drafting a 7 time pro bowl guard is worth it, but which guard in this draft would you say is a future hall of famer? Currently none of them really stand out as surefire all-pros, which means none of them are really worth a top 10.

Many good points, Laron.

Trent is even younger than I thought but expecting seven uninterrupted (uninjured) years of play from Trent is optimistic.

Admittedly, at this time I have no clue who are the top OTs and Gs in college. I don't watch college ball and wait until the NFL combine to begin my review of the new bloods. Regarding the O line, last year on the ES board my predraft recommendstions were:

- select Bitonio with first pick, or

- trade up for Zach Martin

[planter]

We absolutely IMO have to find 2 versatile OL in this upcoming draft - OG/C & OT/OG types.

I'd like to find a replacement for Kory too. Compton might just be playing his way into a starting role next season too.

Chump, Did you notice that DJax recently said that Champ Bailey was the toughest corner he has faced..

[Laron Burgundy]

Many good points, Laron.

Trent is even younger than I thought but expecting seven uninterrupted (uninjured) years of play from Trent is optimistic.

Admittedly, at this time I have no clue who are the top OTs and Gs in college. I don't watch college ball and wait until the NFL combine to begin my review of the new bloods. Regarding the O line, last year on the ES board my predraft recommendstions were:

- select Bitonio with first pick, or

- trade up for Zach Martin

 

Yeah, I think the whole board really liked those two.  Damn shame we traded down and probably lost a chance at another all-pro.  I'm hoping a lower rated tackle shows up before the draft like those two did and really blow us away, but I still don't know if I'd take them in the top 10.  And after our recent trade downs I'm really not too keen on trading down any more!  Maybe trade up with our 2nd.

 

Yeah, 7 years is probably pretty optimistic.  Samuels was only 32 when he hung up the cleats, though he was still playing at a pretty high level, his injuries had worn him down.  Perhaps 5 years of fairly good health is more realistic, but that's still a long time off in terms of considering an eventual replacement.  That said, planning ahead can save us from using a 1st on the position.  We had to use that top 5 pick on Trent because Samuels was gone and we had absolutely nothing at the position, luckily for us Trent was also worth that top 5 pick.