SJValleySkinz Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 To the OP point. What should the Israelis do if someone is sabotaging their security barrier? I was born in Israel, lived there for 10 years and served in the army. I've been all over the West Bank and seen some of those security barriers so I can tell you there are options besides mowing down a kid with a machine gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I was born in Israel, lived there for 10 years and served in the army. I've been all over the West Bank and seen some of those security barriers so I can tell you there are options besides mowing down a kid with a machine gun. Such as? If they told him to stop. Then fired warning shots. The (according to the article posted by TWA) fired at the main culprit, but not a "kill" shot. What else should they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Such as? If they told him to stop. Then fired warning shots. The (according to the article posted by TWA) fired at the main culprit, but not a "kill" shot. What else should they do? Um, remove him from the area? We're talking about a 15 year old kid who was (supposedly) vandalizing the fence, not a mob of people wielding machine guns. Is that honestly what you believe the process for something like that should be? 1) See person you believe is vandalizing fence 2) Tell him to stop 3) Fire warning shots 4) Shoot him There's no room in there for something a bit less...lethal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Um, remove him from the area? We're talking about a 15 year old kid who was (supposedly) vandalizing the fence, not a mob of people wielding machine guns. Is that honestly what you believe the process for something like that should be? 1) See person you believe is vandalizing fence 2) Tell him to stop 3) Fire warning shots 4) Shoot him There's no room in there for something a bit less...lethal? Not with the history in that area. 15 year olds are the ones with bombs strapped to their chests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Not with the history in that area. 15 year olds are the ones with bombs strapped to their chests. Very true, and as much as i'd rather not sound like blaming a kid without the whole story, you have GOT to know not to be around the fence if you are not wanting to put yourself in jeopardy. common sense says stay away from where soldiers with guns will absolutely shoot you for even a misunderstanding. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Very true, and as much as i'd rather not sound like blaming a kid, you have GOT to know not to be around the fence if you are not wanting to put yourself in jeopardy. common sense says stay away from where guys with guns will absolutely shoot you for even a misunderstanding. ~Bang I dont think thats blaming the kid. I dont think he deserved to be shot. But I do understand the Israeli mindset and protocol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Of course. All brown people in the ME train their kids to be radical jihadists. God, sanctity of life, dead brown kids! How many jihadists are there in the world? Tens of thousands? Hell let's say it's in the hundreds of thousands. That means that there is still a VAST majority that aren't raising their kids to "die for the cause". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I dont think thats blaming the kid. I dont think he deserved to be shot. But I do understand the Israeli mindset and protocol. Pretty much exactly the mindset of any military force guarding a disputed and / or hotspot border. And if you live in that region, and you're 15, you damn sure know it. I don't blame the kid, YET,.. but if the reports of warnings and warning shots are true and he was STILL there,, his appearance of innocence starts to evaporate pretty quickly. And if he is 'sabotaging' the fence that the soldiers are guarding, well... ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Um, remove him from the area? We're talking about a 15 year old kid who was (supposedly) vandalizing the fence, not a mob of people wielding machine guns. Is that honestly what you believe the process for something like that should be? 1) See person you believe is vandalizing fence 2) Tell him to stop 3) Fire warning shots 4) Shoot him There's no room in there for something a bit less...lethal? Uh, and risk kidnapping, a ambush or a bomb?? We could sell them the skin frying sensation thingie....gonna need a lot of them though. I don't have much sympathy for those practicing suicide by cop or soldier....nor tempting fate. Now it is certainly possible his parents didn't raise him to do such a thing....I can't say the same for his govt or community....can any of you? I fully expect him to be celebrated as a martyr in the long line of children they use for propaganda . Insallah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 you raise your kids to die for a cause and it is a tragedy when they do so? i presume that proud parents of marines and police similarly forfeit the right to be sad if their children bravely die in the act of serving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJValleySkinz Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Uh, and risk kidnapping, a ambush or a bomb?? We could sell them the skin frying sensation thingie....gonna need a lot of them though. I don't have much sympathy for those practicing suicide by cop or soldier....nor tempting fate. Now it is certainly possible his parents didn't raise him to do such a thing....I can't say the same for his govt or community....can any of you? I fully expect him to be celebrated as a martyr in the long line of children they use for propaganda . Insallah I noticed the word "know" is absent in your post and for good reason. I've been around various Palestinian communities and the majority of them are (hold on to your hat) peaceful human beings just like you and me, or judging by your post in this thread, just like me. Feel free to carry on with your Arab bashing and general hate mongering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 i presume that proud parents of marines and police similarly forfeit the right to be sad if their children bravely die in the act of serving? Being sad is perfectly understandable....blood libel is another matter(even for the parents of Marines and police) Would you say the OP was about the parents loss? The foraging for plants ect just set me off. SJValleySkinz...not that it matters, but I know,am friends with,and am related to quite a few Arabs, including Palestinian ones many of which share my opinion......those that don't are just wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJValleySkinz Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Being sad is perfectly understandable....blood libel is another matter(even for the parents of Marines and police) Would you say the OP was about the parents loss? The foraging for plants ect just set me off. SJValleySkinz...not that it matters, but I know,am friends with,and am related to quite a few Arabs, including Palestinian ones many of which share my opinion......those that don't are just wrong Their government is corrupt beyond hope, but the people don't deserve what is happening to them as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Really??? Let this have been your 15 year old, and I'm sure your posts would be completely different. I'm curious. Even if the kids were vandalizing a fence, what part of that makes it ok to commit murder? An 18 foot cement wall really... Only folks bending over backwards to reduce the impact of this wall on the area could even call it a fense. It's the kind of wall found in medevil castles really.... Not something you can climb or even get through without high explosives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 you raise your kids to die for a cause and it is a tragedy when they do so? If you raised your kid to die for the cause one would think the kids being killed would have weapons, or something representing a threat for Israel... Spray painting this wall is the "provocation" Israel is claiming... Hell man we would execute half the kids in NY City if that was a reasonable provocation. A kid with a spay pint can is zero threat to anybody in that tower. Are Israeli's a different color? was adequate warning given? Most Palestinians I have met are lighter toned than me maybe those there get more sun though So what is your thought? Skin color isn't the racial bias being employed by the Israeli's to justify the killing of these Palistinian kids.. Or their is no Israeli prejudice employed in the killing of these kids? I don't think you can claim the latter. Not with the history in that area. 15 year olds are the ones with bombs strapped to their chests. Only no bombs are being found strapped to the chests of the 261 Palistinians wounded by Israel, much less the 60 killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Is graffiti his crime here? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 If you raised your kid to die for the cause one would think the kids being killed would have weapons, or something representing a threat for Israel... The wall is simply to block the view and keep the Palestinians inside from escaping I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Is graffiti his crime here? ~Bang Worst case... perhaps? or maybe it's the defiance represented by the act of graffiti? Or maybe the "crime" here is just venturing to close to the wall.... But honestly we don't know if even that is a provocation. All we know for sure is these kids being shot / killed don't have any weapons and these troubling events are happenning with a frequency reflective of an policy position of the Israeli government rather than a troubling isolated decisions of a few IDF soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 the same part that warranted a thread. his parents can be proud he died for the cause.....inshallah And you know for sure sitting in your comfy chair that he was some sort of terrorist? Or does human life in general hold so little value to you that you think it is OK to make fun of a dead child.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 And you know for sure sitting in your comfy chair that he was some sort of terrorist? Or does human life in general hold so little value to you that you think it is OK to make fun of a dead child.? Dead babies and children only matter to him when political votes are on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Dead babies and children only matter to him when political votes are on the line. I'm not a Democrat And you know for sure sitting in your comfy chair that he was some sort of terrorist? Or does human life in general hold so little value to you that you think it is OK to make fun of a dead child.? kindly point out my making fun of him....he chose poorly and clearly did not value his own life You know from your chair that they could tell if he was or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Did anyone read the articles? From the second article in the OP... ...The Israeli military said he had breached the barrier separating the soldiers from protesters. A classmate said a group of students went to the barrier – a line of walls, trenches and fences that Israel has built along and inside the West Bank – to throw stones at the soldiers. Muataz Awad said the soldiers opened fire, killing the teenager, named as Samir Awad from the village of Boudrous....The military confirmed soldiers had opened fire on protesters, saying some had cut through a section of the barrier fence. A military spokesman, Captain Eytan Buchman, said troops "initiated standard rules of engagement, which included live fire". So the first post was about a different person than the second. The three articles don't all tell the same stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Did anyone read the articles? From the second article in the OP... So the first post was about a different person than the second. The three articles don't all tell the same stories. How do you cut through a section of a huge concrete wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Some parts are concrete walls. Others are fences. And it wouldn't matter if he went there and three rocks at the soldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 How do you cut through a section of a huge concrete wall? Same way you eat an elephant? I'm not saying this kid isn't an innocent victim, but there's so much misinformation from that part of the world that I frankly never know what to believe. The details matter, and we often don't even get those in America, much less from sources over seas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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