Rawstory: CEO tells Daily Show ‘mentally retarded’ could work for $2: ‘You’re worth what you’re worth’

[Predicto]

Agreed.

If the worst think you can find about this proposal is that you think some teenager might get a few dollars more than you like? Then big deal.

----------

Having said that, now . . . .

Anybody else see the problem with passing a law that mandates a 25% increase in the price of labor "to keep up with inflation" . . . . ?

 

 

Its not a 25 percent increase in the price of labor.  It's a 25 percent increase in the floor of wages, reflecting the 28 percent lost over the past few decades in that figure.   

 

I understand what you are suggesting, but I have not seen any studies to suggest that the inflationary impact of a minimum wage change will be significant.   Like none.  

 

I have seen arguments that it will increase unemployment, but those studies are disputed.  Some think it actually creates jobs by putting more money into the economy at the lower levels, where it always gets spent right away, usually on necessities.  

 

Here's the conclusions of one detailed analysis.

 

• Increasing the federal minimum wage to $10.10 by July 1, 2015, would raise the wages of about 30 million workers, who would receive over $51 billion in additional wages over the phase-in period.1
• Across the phase-in period of the minimum-wage increase, GDP would increase by roughly $32.6 billion, resulting in the creation of approximately 140,000 net new jobs (and 284,000 job years) over that period.
• Those who would see wage increases do not fit some of the stereotypes of minimum-wage workers.
  • Women would be disproportionately affected, comprising 56 percent of those who would benefit.
  • Over 88 percent of workers who would benefit are at least 20 years old.
  • Although workers of all races and ethnicities would benefit from the increase, non-Hispanic white workers comprise the largest share (about 54 percent) of those who would be affected.
  • About 44 percent of affected workers have at least some college education.
  • Around 55 percent of affected workers work full time, 70 percent are in families with incomes of less than $60,000, more than a quarter are parents, and over a third are married.
  • The average affected worker earns about half of his or her family’s total income.

http://www.epi.org/publication/bp357-federal-minimum-wage-increase/

 

The Economist Magazine used to oppose minimum wage hikes, but now has changed its mind.  

 

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21567072-evidence-mounting-moderate-minimum-wages-can-do-more-good-harm

[AsburySkinsFan]

Now you are putting your union hat on

And ten bucks says he can't quote where I said that, see how that works?

 

ASF has gotten emotional because he doesn't like my posts, so it tends to make his posts a little more irrational.

Actually, you're the one distinguishing between what certain workers deserve based on age (kids vs. adults which seems awfully ambiguous) and based on whether they have responsibilities. You were also injecting race into the discussion by repeatedly pointing out that your local fast-food chains turned to hiring all Hispanics....as if that mattered at all.

Did I use hyperbole to illustrate the absurdity of the discrimination you have been indirectly suggesting?

You bet.

[Predicto]

Predicto

 

How much dead weight would you mandate? .....formula from% of profit or what?   

Like the 2 dollar example in the OP that receives aid yet can benefit from a 2 hr dollar job, the less skilled/talented/driven can benefit.

 

As is often the case, I don't understand your question.  

 

I don't think anyone working hard full time is "dead weight,"  even if the job is menial.   Those jobs need to be done, and those people need to eat.

[chipwhich]

Actually, you're the one distinguishing between what certain workers deserve based on age (kids vs. adults which seems awfully ambiguous) and based on whether they have responsibilities. You were also injecting race into the discussion by repeatedly pointing out that your local fast-food chains turned to hiring all Hispanics....as if that mattered at all.

Did I use hyperbole to illustrate the absurdity of the discrimination you have been indirectly suggesting?

You bet.

 

Again.

There is a little issue with blindly discussing minimum wage.

 

1) Does my daughter getting her first job deserve to be paid as much as a 30 year old woman down on her luck with a child?  Maybe Maybe not.

2) I am not for age discrimination at all I simply stated that at the fast food restaurants in my area they are mostly kids.  More kids than adults and I consider someone just out of high school a kid.

3) Stating that the McDonalds near me went totally hispanic isn't discrimination either, it's an observation.  The only discrimination that might be occurring is in that McDonalds.

[Predicto]

Again.

There is a little issue with blindly discussing minimum wage.

 

1) Does my daughter getting her first job deserve to be paid as much as a 30 year old woman down on her luck with a child?  Maybe Maybe not.

2) I am not for age discrimination at all I simply stated that at the fast food restaurants in my area they are mostly kids.  More kids than adults and I consider someone just out of high school a kid.

3) Stating that the McDonalds near me went totally hispanic isn't discrimination either, it's an observation.  The only discrimination that might be occurring is in that McDonalds.

 

Why are you so concerned with making sure someone somewhere doesn't get something they don't "deserve?"   Public policy shouldn't be based on amorphous concerns like that.  

[LadySkinsFan]

What I haven't seen discussed here is businesses get to deduct the increase as part of wages and benefits deductions on their income tax.  So they really aren't losing anything, and they gain a tax benefit.

 

Also, when my daughter was 18, she didn't go to college, I made her pay rent, she had to buy her own food and so on.  It was part of my teaching her financial responsibility.  So she was supporting herself on minimum wage at first.  When she moved out as wasn't making it and wanted me to help with her rent, I instead made her move back home, do my housework and laundry, and pay back her landlord when she broke the lease.

 

So some very young adults are self-supporting and could use a higher minimum wage.  Some are parents already and need to support the child.  If these young people were paid a living wage, they wouldn't be a drain on our tax system and would in fact pay more into the tax system.

 

I really don't get the views of some on here who seem to want people to fail and not get ahead.  In the late 40s and 50s, we had a thriving rising middle class with blue collar skill jobs where people could raise their families without working 2-3 jobs within the family, where their wages were rising (thank unions), benefits were rising, and people were making it.  Now, niggardly attitudes toward unions, benefits, living wages, and a rising middle class abound.  Corporate greed, increased profits over human considerations, outsourcing blue collar skill jobs and other jobs like call centers to foreign shores in an effort to increase profits, and cutting benefits like pensions, health insurance, and vacations/personal time off are only a few methods for increasing profits.  The most egregious of these is paying the lowest wages possible and letting government programs make up the difference.  These programs are something we all pay for, and if we increased the minimum wage, workers wouldn't need these programs (working poor) and we'd all of us save on taxes.

 

We've tried trickle down economics and it doesn't work.  Let's try bottom up and it will work better.

[chipwhich]

Why are you so concerned with making sure someone somewhere doesn't get something they don't "deserve?"   Public policy shouldn't be based on amorphous concerns like that.  

 

Why should an employer have to pay for unskilled labor.  My daughter learning to mop the floors and wash dishes and close the restaurant for minimum wage is a good learning experience.  I had to work some ****ty jobs.  My daughter didn't know how to run a restaurant when she started at Panera.  You earn as you learn.

[Larry]

I understand what you are suggesting, but I have not seen any studies to suggest that the inflationary impact of a minimum wage change will be significant. Like none.

I have seen arguments that it will increase unemployment, but those studies are disputed. Some think it actually creates jobs by putting more money into the economy at the lower levels, where it always gets spent right away, usually on necessities.

Here's the conclusions of one detailed analysis.

http://www.epi.org/publication/bp357-federal-minimum-wage-increase/

The Economist Magazine used to oppose minimum wage hikes, but now has changed its mind.

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21567072-evidence-mounting-moderate-minimum-wages-can-do-more-good-harm

Somebody actually talking about actual, likely, impacts? Is that allowed?

[TradeTheBeal!]

Is this thread about a livable wage or about someone's teenage daughter?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Again.

There is a little issue with blindly discussing minimum wage.

1) Does my daughter getting her first job deserve to be paid as much as a 30 year old woman down on her luck with a child? Maybe Maybe not.

Yes, because it is the minimum hourly wage...with the emphasis on hourly, not on skill, job or experience. It is the amount we set that says this is the least you can pay a person for an hour of their life.

2) I am not for age discrimination at all I simply stated that at the fast food restaurants in my area they are mostly kids. More kids than adults and I consider someone just out of high school a kid.

And this whole crazy train started because someone (I'm too lazy to check who) suggested that it was only teenagers in high school etc that work for minimum wage. My whole point is that fast food joints, Walmarts etc ALL operate almost exclusively on adult (allowing for the extreme minimal percentage of emancipated teens) labor every weekday that school is in session and they all pay at or just slightly above the minimum wage.

3) Stating that the McDonalds near me went totally hispanic isn't discrimination either, it's an observation. The only discrimination that might be occurring is in that McDonalds.

Then why point it out in this discussion? It has no relevance at hand.

As far as someone in Tennessee and someone in Arlington VA both making $7.25 per hour, I will just point out that the minimum wage in question is the Federal minimum wage, and that states can and do legislate higher minimum wages because of just what you point out.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx

[chipwhich]

What I haven't seen discussed here is businesses get to deduct the increase as part of wages and benefits deductions on their income tax.  So they really aren't losing anything, and they gain a tax benefit.

 

You mean I bring how less taxable wages?  Alrighty then.

If my revenue is 150,000 and I have 108,000 in labor costs with 10 minimum wage employees.  My labor costs go up $4,000 per employee or $40,000 so now I have 148,000 in labor costs an no profit.  But I get a tax break?  LOL. 

[Larry]

Actually, you're the one distinguishing between what certain workers deserve based on age (kids vs. adults which seems awfully ambiguous) and based on whether they have responsibilities. You were also injecting race into the discussion by repeatedly pointing out that your local fast-food chains turned to hiring all Hispanics....as if that mattered at all.

Did I use hyperbole to illustrate the absurdity of the discrimination you have been indirectly suggesting?

You bet.

Actually, he gave an opinion as to how many fast food workers were adults, because somebody demanded that he do so. Repeatedly. And then, if I recall, didn't like the answer he gave, and demanded a different one.

I don't recall if the person doing the demanding, was you.

[twa]

As is often the case, I don't understand your question.  

 

I don't think anyone working hard full time is "dead weight,"  even if the job is menial.   Those jobs need to be done, and those people need to eat.

 

The question related to the responsibility you asserted

'I think it is an employer's responsibility if we, as a society, decide that it is'

 

Is it a voluntary responsibility or one that should be mandated?

 

if mandated...how?

[SteveFromYellowstone]

Why are you so concerned with making sure someone somewhere doesn't get something they don't "deserve?"   Public policy shouldn't be based on amorphous concerns like that.  

That's why America is nearly always last at implementing a good government program i.e. single payer. A very sizable portion of our population is entirely too concerned about those dreaded "others" receiving benefits they don't "deserve".  Sometimes I wish our country was divided in half and maybe then the Northern United States of America could implement universal care and work on the wealth gap 

[twa]

You mean I bring how less taxable wages?  Alrighty then.

If my revenue is 150,000 and I have 108,000 in labor costs with 10 minimum wage employees.  My labor costs go up $4,000 per employee or $40,000 so now I have 148,000 in labor costs an no profit.  But I get a tax break?  LOL. 

 

and a higher FICA share you need to pay

[Larry]

1) Does my daughter getting her first job deserve to be paid as much as a 30 year old woman down on her luck with a child? Maybe Maybe not.

Pointing out that right now, they are (getting paid the same).

Some people have suggested that the 30 year old woman needs more.

You seem to be objecting, because you seem to believe that, if your daughter gets a raise, this would be a bigger wrong than what the 30 year old I snaking, right now, is. You seem to be arguing that said 30 year old cannot get a raise, because it would result in your daughter getting a raise, too.

[chipwhich]

and a higher FICA share you need to pay

 

I hate to get into FICA taxes and payroll costs   Just using broud strokes.  In my example had I used numbers to the penny the company would have lost money.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Actually, he gave an opinion as to how many fast food workers were adults, because somebody demanded that he do so. Repeatedly. And then, if I recall, didn't like the answer he gave, and demanded a different one.

I don't recall if the person doing the demanding, was you.

But like I said adults vs. kids is irrelevant unless we are going to discriminate on age.

I was also posing the challenge, he gave numbers straight out of his Philly (love that BTW), I asked not because I am legitimizing the idea that there should be a difference in pay between them, but instead because there has been a prevailing in these discussions that the only people that work for minimum wage are kids. Which simply isn't true, and is easily illustrated by walking into a fast-food restaurant on a weekday at lunch.

[Larry]

What I haven't seen discussed here is businesses get to deduct the increase as part of wages and benefits deductions on their income tax. So they really aren't losing anything, and they gain a tax benefit.

Uh, yes, they absolutely are "losing anything".

All that deduction means is that, if the business spends $1000, then that $1000 doesn't count as $1000 profit, any more.

That's because it ISN'T profit, any more.

[chipwhich]

Pointing out that right now, they are (getting paid the same).

Some people have suggested that the 30 year old woman needs more.

You seem to be objecting, because you seem to believe that, if your daughter gets a raise, this would be a bigger wrong than what the 30 year old I snaking, right now, is. You seem to be arguing that said 30 year old cannot get a raise, because it would result in your daughter getting a raise, too.

 

Which comes to the original question I posted, which was innocent, in that I asked who is making minimum wage.  I asked because I honestly don't know.  I can only relate to my daughter at 2 jobs, both she left making more than minimum wage.  The first job she wasn't there long before getting a bump.  She started at 16.

 

I also don't have a WalMart in my back yard so I don't have the WalMart experience yall do

 

[Larry]

You mean I bring how less taxable wages? Alrighty then.

If my revenue is 150,000 and I have 108,000 in labor costs with 10 minimum wage employees. My labor costs go up $4,000 per employee or $40,000 so now I have 148,000 in labor costs an no profit. But I get a tax break? LOL.

You don't even get a tax break.

Before, you had $42K in profit, and paid taxes on $42K in profit.

After, you had $2K in profit, and okay $2K in profit.

All this "deduction" means is "the money you pay to your employees, doesn't count as profit".

Which comes to the original question I posted, which was innocent, in that I asked who is making minimum wage. I asked because I honestly don't know. I can only relate to my daughter at 2 jobs, both she left making more than minimum wage. The first job she wasn't there long before getting a bump. She started at 16.

I also don't have a WalMart in my back yard so I don't have the WalMart experience yall do

The biggest problem with your, and a lot of other people's, focusing on this, is pretending that changing the min wage affects ONLY those people who are making EXACTLY the minimum wage, right now.

When in actuality, raising min wage will affect a great many people whose wages are merely CLOSE to the minimum.

Guess what? When min wage goes up, the assistant managers at McDonalds get raises, too.

[Predicto]

Why should an employer have to pay for unskilled labor.  My daughter learning to mop the floors and wash dishes and close the restaurant for minimum wage is a good learning experience.  I had to work some ****ty jobs.  My daughter didn't know how to run a restaurant when she started at Panera.  You earn as you learn.

 

Stop moving the goalposts all over the place.  

 

To answer your question, an employer should have to pay for unskilled labor because someone has to do the unskilled labor and the people who do the unskilled labor need to eat.

 

You seem unable to imagine that anyone has to live a different life than your middle class existence.   Suburban high school kids working part time at Panera for pocket money does not represent the typical low income employee - it is just the only one you seem to know about.

[Predicto]

Is this thread about a livable wage or about someone's teenage daughter?

 

It's almost like some people think the poor should be punished for being unskilled.   The fact that they are willing to work full time on a crummy job (that needs to be done by someone) is not enough to give them the "virtue" necessary to deserve to be able to support themselves without welfare.   Like the person earlier in this thread who suggested that people were "abusing the system" by working full time at menial jobs THAT NEED TO BE DONE.   Abusing the system would be those who are not working, not those who are trying to work and support themselves.   But the two ideas get mashed together - as though virtue comes from being not poor, rather than from being not lazy.  

 

It's a weird way of thinking.

The question related to the responsibility you asserted

'I think it is an employer's responsibility if we, as a society, decide that it is'

 

Is it a voluntary responsibility or one that should be mandated?

 

if mandated...how?

 

Mandated.  By raising the minimum wage.   

 

That was easy.  

[chipwhich]

Stop moving the goalposts all over the place.  

 

To answer your question, an employer should have to pay for unskilled labor because someone has to do the unskilled labor and the people who do the unskilled labor need to eat.

 

You seem unable to imagine that anyone has to live a different life than your middle class existence.   Suburban high school kids working part time at Panera for pocket money does not represent the typical low income employee - it is just the only one you seem to know about.

 

Oh I can imagine a different life, I just suspect those working minimum wage are either in a location where it is the only option or there is less motivation than making other choices. 

[Predicto]

Which comes to the original question I posted, which was innocent, in that I asked who is making minimum wage.  I asked because I honestly don't know.  I can only relate to my daughter at 2 jobs, both she left making more than minimum wage.  The first job she wasn't there long before getting a bump.  She started at 16.

 

I also don't have a WalMart in my back yard so I don't have the WalMart experience yall do

 

You have been given multiple links now that answer your question.   Here's a third one, so we can move on.

 

 

 

It is a common myth that very low-wage workers—workers who would see a raise if the minimum wage were increased—are mostly teenagers. The reality is that raising the federal minimum wage to $10.10 per hour would primarily benefit older workers. 88 percent of workers who would be affected by raising the minimum wage are at least 20 years old, and a third of them are at least 40 years old....

 

 

 

The typical worker who would be affected by an increase in the minimum wage to $10.10 per hour by 2015 looks nothing like the part-time, teen stereotype: She is in her early thirties, works full-time, and may have a family to support. Our analysis of workers who would benefit from an increase in the minimum wage shows:

The average age of affected workers is 35 years old;

• 88 percent of all affected workers are at least 20 years old;
• 35.5 percent are at least 40 years old;
• 56 percent are women;
• 28 percent have children;
• 55 percent work full-time (35 hours per week or more);
• 44 percent have at least some college experience.

 

http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/