@DCGoldPants Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Not sure how many of you folks read about this last week. From what I understand,Namibia and the Dallas Safari Club auctioned off a permit to hunt an older yet endangered black rhino for $350K. Before the auction people were pissed because its an endangered species. The argument for is that the Rhino is older and not mating anymore. But still aggressive and its messing with the young males. Corey Knowlton, the winner of the auction has been receiving threats against himself and his family. He says he's helping conservation efforts by paying this money to help remove this specific Rhino from the herd. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/16/us/black-rhino-hunting-permit/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 One thing I heard on TV was that some folks opposed say it makes more sense to remove this one from the herd, but keep it alive at another reserve or zoo where the research of the species is more valuable than the $350K. I don't know if that's the case or not. Maybe it is. The World Wildlife Foundation has a video on their site of a Black Rhino being moved by helicopter to a different area and released. Somebody posted that in the comments section of the article. It doesn't mention this specific auction, but shows how they do this. http://bit.ly/1kGtorO is this a better option? I do think the quotes from Knowlton about experiencing the Rhino is kind of creepy. I understand he's trying to explain that as a hunter. But the wording was odd. Thoughts? Is this really good for the species and conservation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 it can be good,but sounds bad . those seriously objecting should pool their funds to relocate it imo. hunting and fishing funds many programs to protect/nurture wildlife and provide sanctuary.....sometimes killing is beneficial in more ways than one. I find such hunts objectionable,but then I object to many things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Lots of irony. People against killing a living thing are threatening a human being and his family. Kind of a hypocritical stance. Knowlton says he has security going with him everywhere and he shouldn't have to live that way, but on the other side of the coin, should that rhino have to live that way? Crazy world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Killing for sport…Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. How bout this Mr. Knowlton? Donate the 350K to some combination of wildlife/gulf veterans charities here at home. Let the folks in Africa decide what to do with the Rhino. Take your kids to a basketball game or a movie or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 I live and grew up near NIST in MoCo where you can see the Deer in there all the time. Generations have grown up and lived their lives being left alone. Sometimes you see dozens in the middle of the day just eating by the fence from the highway. I believe once a year they send in rangers with bows to thin out the herd. Makes sense. Then again, they aren't endangered. In this situation, I'm not sure who to believe. You understand that if the older Rhino could hurt the herd, something should be done. Relocation or killed. Then you read the quotes from the guy who won the auction and it feels like he's smart enough to say the things about protecting the species....but...it always sounds like he's just saying that and this is about the thrill for him. Lastly, I don't know if I trust that Gov't to use the money for conservation efforts. That's why I'm trying to pose is as a "what do you do here?". Its conflicting. They can't use this guy to artificially impregnate females from another herd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocountyskins Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't understand people who have money and jobs that kill endangered animals. With that being said I understand some of the poaching that goes on and the people who do it. If you and your family are starving and live a crap quality of life and there is a animal walking around that can have its horn sell for 60k even tho I know they don't get close to the full price. Yea kill it. I'd kill one if I was in that position. Being a hunter myself I think that a Rhino would be a cool trophy, but I understand having respect for nature and endangered animals. So idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Let the folks in Africa decide what to do with the Rhino. The folks in Africa DID decide......to sell the right to kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugein Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Let the folks in Africa decide what to do with the Rhino. But they did. The folks in Africa decided to have the rhino killed. They're just also going to make a few bucks for the reservation off of offering the hunting rights to a bidder rather than just sending a ranger or someone out there to do the job for nothing. I don't see why this guy is catching flak. If he didn't win the bid to do the hunt, someone else would've. If nobody bid to try to win the hunt, then the safari club staff would've just done it because they decided that a culling was necessary for the overall health of the herd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I live and grew up near NIST in MoCo where you can see the Deer in there all the time. Generations have grown up and lived their lives being left alone. Sometimes you see dozens in the middle of the day just eating by the fence from the highway. I believe once a year they send in rangers with bows to thin out the herd. Makes sense. Then again, they aren't endangered. In this situation, I'm not sure who to believe. You understand that if the older Rhino could hurt the herd, something should be done. Relocation or killed. Then you read the quotes from the guy who won the auction and it feels like he's smart enough to say the things about protecting the species....but...it always sounds like he's just saying that and this is about the thrill for him. Lastly, I don't know if I trust that Gov't to use the money for conservation efforts. That's why I'm trying to pose is as a "what do you do here?". Its conflicting. They can't use this guy to artificially impregnate females from another herd? Probably, but have you seen Blackfish. Fair warning, I know squatola about animals, but the movie Blackfish featured a fish known as Tilikum who seemed to be good natured most of the time but had moments where he "snapped". He's responsible for a few human deaths (which, ironically, I'd say the humans who decided capturing a killer whale and putting it in **** conditions are ultimately responsible, but for the sake of brevity..). They used him to breed, and quite a few of the whales he helped breed also turned out to be aggressive. If rhinos are similar, breeding the aggressive rhino could result in more aggressive rhinos. Probably a bad move. Having said that, I find the contradictory tone of human beings to be very interesting. "I shouldn't have to live in fear, but this rhino should" "This guy shouldn't kill this living thing, but I'm going to threaten him and his family" We're an interesting species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyHeyHey Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I can see where the removal of this grumpy old rhino might be good for the herd; however, being endangered and all, I don't think it belongs in some rich dude's trophy collection. It should go to a zoo and be researched. Tell you what, I'm fine with this as long as the dude takes on the rhino with a spear and loincloth. Mano-a-rhino. Instead he'll probably shoot from a caged in landrover with an extremely highpowered rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I hate trophy hunting, it just encourages rich idiots to go out and buy a Rhino horn or Lion pelt to display in their home. So one idiot now has a Rhino trophy his idiot friend now needs to get one because of dick measuring contest. If the old Rhino needs to be killed then shoot him and leave the body for natural to take care of it. I'm sure some vulture or hyena would appreciate the meal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I think I'm going to go home after work tonight and watch The Freshman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 If the old Rhino needs to be killed then shoot him and leave the body for natural to take care of it. I'm sure some vulture or hyena would appreciate the meal. what about the starving kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Not offered as a "topical point that seriously applies" but I remember as a teenager seeing one of their typical joke advertisements that mimicked real current ads in National Lampoon magazine (the first 7-8 years are priceless in the material/writers showcased) for "Be a Forest Ranger--Kill Animals So They Won't Die." The whole piece was hysterical. I always recommend humor lovers find as many old issues as they can to read (and the first 3-4 NatLamp albums, and the first 5-6 Firesign Theater albums to listen to ). Per thread discussion: I think the people who "like" the idea of shooting (specifically) a "trophy" or "exotic" animal primarily just for that reason, even in such circumstances as the topic outlines, are a tad (or more) ****ed up in the head on that matter. But who isn't in some way or another. That's not one of the worst ways to be effed in the head on some particular viewpoint--merely offered as a subjective personal evaluation, of course, though it is a "science fack" according to me. I make that negative characterization, but it's not based on "shooting animals is bad." I endorse "responsible" hunting/fishing etc for a number of connecting reasons, but not simply "shooting animals" as an interest. Hunt an elk, kill/dress it properly, and eat it or donate the meat/hide etc. Any desire to just shoot some "exotic" animal, specifically, mainly in order to "just have that experience" (despite other rationalizations offered) suggests some "**** in the head" to me. In the end, small potatoes on the scale of concerns, given things (like human behavior) in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I've been lucky enough to travel a bit around Africa and see a number of rare and exotic species, including northern white and black rhinos, mountain gorillas, etc. I simply can't imagine how someone can look at one of these incredible animals that are so rare and want to shoot it. There are a number of rhino sanctuaries around Africa that take old/sick/abandoned/injured animals from neighboring countries. I was at Ziwa sanctuary in Uganda last year at this time, and they have a number of transplanted rhinos from Kenya and other sites. This sounds like a money grab for the Namibians. Not that I can totally blame them, they may well live in desperate circumstances I can hardly imagine. I am certain there are other re-location options. But for a trophy hunter to want to "experience" a rhino by killing it seems so callous to be seriously pathological. I have far less problem with the more routine hunting of over-populated deer etc that we have in the US. Its not for me, but it doesn't bother me much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocountyskins Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I make that negative characterization, but it's not based on "shooting animals is bad." I endorse "responsible" hunting/fishing etc for a number of connecting reasons, but not simply "shooting animals" as an interest. Hunt an elk, kill/dress it properly, and eat it or donate the meat/hide etc. Any desire to just shoot some "exotic" animal, specifically, mainly in order to "just have that experience" (despite other rationalizations offered) suggests some "**** in the head" to me. I go hunting and have been going every year for the last 9 years. I have a lot of relatives in PA and NY that own land and invite me and my dad every year to go hunting with them. I only go two days out of the year. My rule has always been the first deer that gives me a shot, I'm going to take it. Since I don't get to hunt very often and there have been years where you go a whole weekend without seeing nothing but tracks or sit in a tree stand for 8 hours in single digit temperature and only see one deer the whole time. So I always kill the first one that I see, doe, big buck or small buck. I dress it and then we take it to a processor and get it cut into steaks. With that being said I know that all my relatives and all the other hunters I know who get to hunt more often. They will consistently pass up easy kills when its early in the season and in the middle of the season because they hope to use the buck tag for a "trophy" They also eat the meat as well. So if meat had the only thing to do with it then I don't think they would be passing up small bucks and does for a potential big buck. While most people use the whole animal I think that the meat is viewed more as a side benefit to getting a big buck on the wall. Also by the time you get the meat processed and pay for your tags you end up spending just as much money or more on that amount of meet than you would at the grocery store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocountyskins Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I can see where the removal of this grumpy old rhino might be good for the herd; however, being endangered and all, I don't think it belongs in some rich dude's trophy collection. It should go to a zoo and be researched. Tell you what, I'm fine with this as long as the dude takes on the rhino with a spear and loincloth. Mano-a-rhino. Instead he'll probably shoot from a caged in landrover with an extremely highpowered rifle. some poachers use arrows for elephants to not alert security on protected land it can be done But yes you're right he will end up using a lapua round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Fascinating clash of mindsets here. If you begin from a hunter's point of view, this makes perfect sense. If you being from a traditional conservationist's point of view, this is outrageous. Both sides are correct, from their point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Reminds me of the book Sick Puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Maybe for a different thread, but Im fascinated by how people are able to assign value to other species and deem some acceptable to kill and others not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Maybe for a different thread, but Im fascinated by how people are able to assign value to other species and deem some acceptable to kill and others not. I imagine people would change their tune between endangered and not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I imagine people would change their tune between endangered and not. I know I do. I am not a hunter, I don't see the appeal at all, I love animals, but I have no problems with deer hunters. Guys who want to kill a Siberian Tiger while there is still one left to kill and before anyone else gets a shot at it - well, eff those guys. Trophy hunting vs. food hunting also plays a part in the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Maybe for a different thread, but Im fascinated by how people are able to assign value to other species and deem some acceptable to kill and others not. Endangered/threatened is the key. If there were 1000 whitetail deer left on the planet, I'd be appalled at anyone who'd want to kill one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 This example though shows that's not always the case. Killing THIS SPECIFIC Rhino, has no overall affect on the endangered species, and in fact, COULD HELP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 This example though shows that's not always the case. Killing THIS SPECIFIC Rhino, has no overall affect on the endangered species, and in fact, COULD HELP. That's why I said that how you view it depends on what viewpoint you are coming from initially. I also think there arguably is a value in holding the line against hunting endangered species under any circumstances. Once you let this hunt happen, and money is made, there could be an ever increasing incentive to let more hunts happen, under less and less clear circumstances. I can't prove it - but I suspect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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